Men in America: Lonely, Ashamed and Deprived of Play

[Riggerjack]

Lol, Riggerjack, the only thing missing from your attempted takedown on the author of the posted article (or was the takedown directed at me?) was a dig on her looks and/or age. I find that as a woman, getting attacked or a professional or personal level is par for the course for having an opinion and stating it, whether said opinion based in fact or not. Which is why I so like Wonkette and her give no F's attitude. More please.

I'm sorry. I wasn't trying for a takedown, attack or to belittle your opinion or experience. I was trying to talk about communication styles, and goals. But I can see I wasn't clear.

Your experience and mine don't seem to match. This shouldn't surprise me as often as it does. My wife's experience in public is very different when I stand a dozen feet away. Please read this post, as a way of helping us resolve the difference in our experience:
http://slatestarcodex.com/2017/10/02/different-worlds/
It's not short, nor simple, but it is the best summary I have ever read for helping to bridge different experiences.

Again, sorry for any offense, none was meant.

[BRUTE]

Of the 160 incidents studied, 64 (40.0%) would have met the criteria to fall under the federal statute passed in 2012 which defines mass killing as three or more killed in a single incident.

(source: https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/act ... 2013-1.pdf)

64 incidents of "3+ humans killed" over 13 years. that's slightly under 5 deaths per year. in a country of 350 million humans.

there is no problem.

[Riggerjack]

Well, no. That's 486 deaths in 16 years. That is clearly a problem. Just not as deadly a problem as lawnmowers.

But lawnmowers are familiar. Familiarity breeds contempt. Plus, if you kill yourself with a lawnmower, you pretty much signed up for that.

Lawnmowers are not controversial enough to get an organized lobby trying to score points at every lawnmower related incident.

And finally, lawnmower deaths don't sell news programs. We just don't fear a random crazy guy with a lawnmower, spontaneously mowing down Innocents at country music festivals. Although, given the overlap of interests (you know the average country music fan has an above average interest in his yard), and the number of people involved, maybe we should be.

[BRUTE]

spontaneously mowing down Innocents at country music festivals

gives a whole new meaning to grass root movements doesn't it. but those country fans probably own lawnmowers themselves, so they had it coming. brute feels no sympathy!

[fiby41]

Jacob's linked article is a hit piece. I don't know another name for it.

Hatchet job

[Riggerjack]

Hatchet job. Yeah, that's a good term.

Again, that piece was an excellent example of trying to convince people using their loyalty on other subjects (women's rights, etc ), and by trying to tie guns to other unrelated subjects their target audience will view in a negative light. (traditional male/female roles, rural states, domestic violence, republicans, etc.)

The other side (yes, my preferred side) will also use these same techniques. Tying patriotism, empowering individuals,and freedom to gun ownership, and collectivism, the frankly horrifying history of countries that have grabbed guns, and extreme examples of Blue Values to gun control.

So what I'm trying to talk about here is not who is right, both sides have used the same techniques, and neither has made an argument good enough to shut down the subject. instead, I'm trying to point out that this technique in particular, is helping to cause the radicalization we see today.

We typed out, what, 90+ pages on Trump, and the extreme polarization of politics. This is what causes that polarization. No, not gun control, but the tying of multiple issues together for the binding of peripheral people to your ingroup, by demonizing the outgroup.

This was what CS was doing with:

One element I have found missing from this discussion is the fact that most of these men would have acted out with guns also have a past history of abusing women. It is not a huge surprise who they are. It is also, sadly, not a huge surprise that this correlation is not looked at by anyone except feminist groups. Yes, this is a 'the horse is already out of the barn argument' in a thread based on keeping the horse in the barn. But as a woman, I find I have little sympathy for these men. When women stop having men in their life as the number one risk for death, perhaps I'll be more compassionate. Until then, no guns for abusers, and lock them up as long as possible.

I was asking if it was intentional.

I have no problem with the technique, I have used it myself. But after reading Scott Alexander's piece on ingroups and outgroups, http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/30/i- ... -outgroup/ I am much more aware of it, and try not to use it.