How long and strict is your undereating phase?

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Bankai
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How long and strict is your undereating phase?

Post by Bankai »

I usually start the day with a cup of coffee, then while at work I usually have 3 pieces of fruit and 20-30 nuts as well as another 1-2 coffee. So that’s about 500kcal in the first 11 hours. Once I’m back home, I eat several times over the course of 4-6 hours for a total of c. 2000kcal. So, for me, the undereating phase is about 20% of total daily calories over about 11 hours, followed by 80% of calories in the evening.

IIRC, Ori Hofmekler suggested eating a bit of fruit and nuts during the day, although I’m wondering if eating nothing might give better results? Currently, I feel well eating just a bit during the day, definitely way better than when I was having “proper” breakfast and lunch. Energy is quite high throughout the day, but I feel it could be even higher if I ate nothing until evening?

BRUTE
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Re: How long and strict is your undereating phase?

Post by BRUTE »

when brute doesn't work out, eating nothing until dinner is fine. coffee helps, bulletproof coffee helps more. when brute lifts, he seems to crave more protein (no surprise), so he typically eats breakfast and dinner.

brute finds it harder to snack (nuts etc) in the undereating phase than eating nothing. eating nothing is easy, eating a little bit requires moderation.

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Ego
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Re: How long and strict is your undereating phase?

Post by Ego »

I drink a tea concoction of green tea, white tea, lemon balm, turmeric powder, black pepper, ginger powder, amla powder, hibiscus tea, rooibos, clove power... (bunch of stuff in there)..... throughout the day but I do not start the 6-hour countdown timer on my phone until the moment I take my first bite of food, which is usually around 10am. I start the timer because I was fudging the six hours without it.

It's amazing how I can feel the metabolic shift from glucose burn to fat burn during my morning workout. This morning, for instance, after a long bike ride I got in the pool and began feeling slight hunger pangs but after a few laps they disappeared entirely and did not return until I got home and was chopping the fruit for breakfast almost two hours later.

James_0011
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Re: How long and strict is your undereating phase?

Post by James_0011 »

After you wake up your blood sugar is low - bringing it up as soon as you is important to lower stress hormones.

BRUTE
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Re: How long and strict is your undereating phase?

Post by BRUTE »

James_0011 wrote:
Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:56 pm
After you wake up your blood sugar is low - bringing it up as soon as you is important to lower stress hormones.
having this done by the body from triglycerides, instead of supplementing external glucose, is the whole point of intermittent fasting


BRUTE
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Re: How long and strict is your undereating phase?

Post by BRUTE »

brute listened to about half of the podcast before he gave up. not a particularly interesting critique of ketosis. main argument seems to be "thyroid", "cortisol", and "it's bad".

enigmaT120
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Re: How long and strict is your undereating phase?

Post by enigmaT120 »

I'm kind of interested in the topic, but I just won't listen to podcasts. Listening to somebody talk is way too slow a method of learning something. Text or you're not trying to communicate with me. Yes I can see I'm getting left behind but can't make myself care.

Riggerjack
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Re: How long and strict is your undereating phase?

Post by Riggerjack »

Listening to somebody talk is way too slow a method of learning something. Text or you're not trying to communicate with me.
Yeah, I don't listen to podcasts much, but they are good for listening to while doing something else. Tuning up the lawnmower? Listen. Painting the bathroom? Listen. These are times when my body is in use, but my brain is underutilized. Listening gets me more efficient use of my time.

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Bankai
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Re: How long and strict is your undereating phase?

Post by Bankai »

Since creating this topic, I trialed no snacks until dinner time and it works surprisingly well. By the time I'm back home from work, I'm usually VERY hungry after ~18h of fast, so I start eating right away. Not having to worry even about fruits or nuts during the day is liberating. Also, no need to carry bag to work since it's empty :D

Now, since the food I'm eating is not very calorie dense (other than whole grains and nuts), I'm sometimes finding myself absolutely full while still missing calories - the main issue is to fit enough food to cover calorie requirements (~2500kcal).

I'm thinking of increasing my nuts consumption - doubling this from ~50g to ~100g a day would cover missing 300 kcal I'm not getting during the day from fruits. Briefly considered adding some olive oil to my meals, but it's counterproductive from the health point of view (oil is sugar of fat kingdom). Another option is some kind of whole grain which doesn't require cooking (and doesn't absorb water), like pita bread, which is also way cheaper per kcal. Or a mix of both with maybe even some extra flaxseeds. Are there any calorie dense unprocessed plant foods I'm missing?

Eureka
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Re: How long and strict is your undereating phase?

Post by Eureka »

Avocados, tahini, peanutbutter, tofu, oatmeal w soy milk aso.

What do you mean by 'doesn't require cooking'?

Because you only eat raw food? Then you most likely need to eat during more than 6 hours/day.

Because you are too hungry to cook and want to eat right away? Then beans and lentils that you cooked the night before. And whole grain ryebread.

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Bankai
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Re: How long and strict is your undereating phase?

Post by Bankai »

@Eureka:

What I meant is that due to my diet being nutrient dense but not calorie dense, I eventually find myself with full stomach, while not getting enough calories (i.e. after eating like 1.5kg of food over few hours). So, cooked rice or pasta etc. is not a solution since it absorbs water and increases in volume. What I basically need, is something like nuts, which are very calorie dense.

I like ryebread suggestion, used to eat it in the past. With 260kcal per 100g it beats rice, oats and pasta. Will give it a go.

BRUTE
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Re: How long and strict is your undereating phase?

Post by BRUTE »

Bankai wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:04 am
my diet being nutrient dense but not calorie dense
seeing as all 3 macronutrients contain calories, maybe Bankai's diet is actually malnutritious or lacking in nutrition.

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Bankai
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Re: How long and strict is your undereating phase?

Post by Bankai »

@Brute:

I have all the minerals and vitamins covered. This is not that difficult eating WFPB diet. What is difficult though, is fitting enough calories between all the nutrient, but low caloric foods (i.e. 120g of spinach, 200g of broccoli and 150g of red onions is almost 0.5kg of food but only ~140kcal). Seems like the answer is to up nuts and seeds intake and come back to eating wholewheat/rye bread.

Riggerjack
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Re: How long and strict is your undereating phase?

Post by Riggerjack »

Sounds like you need to add hummus to your veggies.

BRUTE
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Re: How long and strict is your undereating phase?

Post by BRUTE »

Bankai wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:44 am
i.e. 120g of spinach, 200g of broccoli and 150g of red onions is almost 0.5kg of food but only ~140kcal)
that's because by weight, almost all of that consists of water and indigestible fiber (i.e. waste).

brute is still confused by the proudness with which hole-food, plant-based dieters claim that their diet is inefficient.

pukingRainbows
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Re: How long and strict is your undereating phase?

Post by pukingRainbows »

It seems like there is a wide variety of interpretations of undereating, depending on who you listen to. It seems to vary all the way from occasional, small portions to absolutely nothing other than water.

I generally look at all of them as different tools to apply to different situations and physical conditions. So depending on the previous day and my current schedule, activities, and feeling, I'll choose whatever approach makes the most sense.

And I've sort of figured that out through experimenting with the different approaches in different situations and observing my moods, energy levels and productivity.

batbatmanne
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Re: How long and strict is your undereating phase?

Post by batbatmanne »

Posting as somebody with "bodybuilder" aspirations (increasing muscle to bodyfat ratio), I like to enter and sustain a cutting phase at about a ~600 kcal deficit or so. During my last cutting phase which took me from 160 lbs to 150 lbs (at 5'9") I was eating at 1800 kcal per day. In terms of macros, I aim for about 1 g protein / lb lean body mass (~135 g on my last cut), 15-20% total kcal from fat and the rest carbohydrates (mostly of the complex variety). Like others here, I use intermittent fasting to control hunger by just drinking coffee in the morning and starting to eat in the afternoon. Ideally, I would have a cheat meal once or twice a week when convenient, but otherwise I would employ strict weighing of food and tracking macros. I would lift weights on a good program 3 days per week to maintain muscle mass. I can usually keep this up for about 4 or 5 weeks before I am too tired to continue on, at which point I will bump up my calories back to maintenance for a week or so and am a bit more lenient in tracking. At a ~600 kcal daily deficit, one can expect to lose 1.2 lbs of fat mass per week, which is pretty good in my opinion. The main advantage with going for a moderate deficit like 600 kcal is that even if you become a bit complacent with your tracking your weight loss will not plateau. At the end of the diet I would eat at maintenance for two weeks before entering a mass gaining phase.

Edit: Looks like I misunderstood what was meant by "undereating phase." In any case this is what I would do If I were trying to lose weight over an extended period of time. I usually wouldn't fast during the morning unless I were on a diet though.

jonnyz
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Re: How long and strict is your undereating phase?

Post by jonnyz »

A regular day of my life on the warrior diet: I wake up, do the Insanity workout, 10km bicycle ride to work, 10 hours of lifting metal that ranges between 5kg and 60kg (my job), another 10km bicycle ride home... and then I feast. I eat two or three huge bowls of broccoli, cabbage, red kidney beans, carrots, drizzled with oil, lemon juice, and usually there's a spice or herb combination. For dessert I pop a b12 pill.

I've been doing this for a year everyday. From my own experience, as long as I get enough sleep and eat the right amount of the aforementioned meal, the only deterrent will be myself.. A good tip is not to overdo the coffee. You should remember that while coffee does suppress appetite, it really isn't necessary. I have one mild coffee when I get to work, then one very weak coffee at the last 2 hours of the shift (coffee at work is free). I used to have three strong coffees spread throughout the shift, which caused a lot of agitation and RAGE (you should add this to your bucket list: 'lift sheets of metal for long periods of time while your body is in ketosis and you're totally f**ked on caffeine listening to Mobb Deep at full volume', it's definitely a unique experience)

As I said, it's mind over matter. If you take away the small snacks during the day (I began warrior diet like this) your mind doesn't think about those snacks, which (in my opinion) results in more mental clarity and more energy and that's why the warrior diet is good, no?

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