Entering Ketosis

[BRUTE]

http://www.lierrekeith.com/book-ex_the- ... n-myth.php

[Bankai]

http://www.lierrekeith.com/book-ex_the- ... n-myth.php

Carnist propaganda strikes again.

[daylen]

sounds like a ton of work

Confirmation bias much?

[BRUTE]

laziness bias

[jacob]

Always pour acid into water. Never the other way around.

Now why is that since it's technically the same molecules meeting?

[Toska2]

Always pour acid into water. Never the other way around.

Now why is that since it's technically the same molecules meeting?

Combining the two creates heat. Acid ( a viscous liquid ) sinks into water and that heat is readily absorbed by the water above. The other way around the water will sit on top, absorb the heat and rapidly boil/steam out the container. It is possible to add acid to water fast enough to boil but its not "volcanic". I worked with lab grade sulfuric and hydrochloric acid @ ~90%. I used 100 ml pipets instead of 100 ml graduated cylinders to slow down the mixing.

[jacob]

Now ponder this metaphor until it sinks in [Always wear cool safety goggles]

[7Wannabe5]

This argument about sustainability of meat consumption doesn't usually take into account the fact that raising livestock is generally a more profitable activity for farmers. It doesn't matter whether you imagine a corn field next to a beef "factory", a mixed lentil/rice/canola field next to a frozen prepared vegetarian meal factory, or wheat and sugar fields next to a gourmet cookie factory, because energy is still cheap, the producer who uses energy (likely petroleum) to take the basic cheap commodity crop further up the chain towards fully prepared high-energy source end-user food product will reap the most profits. If/when energy prices significantly rise, the whole equation will change, but until that very high possibility becomes reality, it is unrealistic to expect farmers or other food producers to take the economic hit for society in general.

IOW, if you truly want to "take the hit" yourself on behalf of future you or future generations, you will choose to make inefficient use of your personal resources in terms of marginal hourly wage, and start paying yourself $5/hour to do something like raise alfalfa in your backyard and meat rabbits in your basement. Any other level of debate is just form of distraction while waiting for the fall, unless you want to gamble on "Elon Musk will save us."

@jacob: I didn't quite get your metaphor.

[fips]

I am not sure. I thought I got Jacob's metaphor (and the pun) but I am not sure I got 7W's argument.

Jacob's metaphor:
I projected the metaphor on the vegetarians/vegans vs. carnist debate.
Just like BRUTE dropping a carnist argument and suddenly vegetarians/vegans rise up (very broadly speaking).
(Or the other way round in different contexts.)
For the pun: I read "Now ponder this metaphor until it sinks in" to be a pun on "acid sinking in water" and "the metaphor sinking in".

7W's argument:
I think I misunderstand you. Are you saying that economic misallocation justifies the consequences?
I agree that it is unfair to let one group of people carry the burden of change, but nevertheless they (more directly) and everyone else (often more indirectly) can work towards that change (for correcting economic misallocation in politics see Richard Thaler's "Nudge").

[7Wannabe5]

Recent study showing that optimal intake for increasing muscle mass over age 40 is 1.6g protein/lb of body weight. Form of protein made no difference.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/07/well ... er-40.html

Of course, overall health value of increasing muscle mass might be relative to total body weight, so senior citizen who is currently skinny-weak would derive most benefit from increased protein intake, whereas middle-aged female who already "looks more like a chubby teenage girl than most women her age" (sigh)might derive more benefit from simple decrease of total simple carbohydrate calorie intake. The super-efficiency of sugar cane does not come close to covering the inefficiencies in the cost of modern medicine.

7W's argument:
I think I misunderstand you. Are you saying that economic misallocation justifies the consequences?
I agree that it is unfair to let one group of people carry the burden of change, but nevertheless they (more directly) and everyone else (often more indirectly) can work towards that change (for correcting economic misallocation in politics see Richard Thaler's "Nudge").

I was attempting to communicate something about reality, not justice. Within the energy/food/water nexus, sustainability has to do with resources/systems outside of human control (petroleum reserves/weather) and viability has to do with resources within human control (tractor production/laws.) Given a free market economy, a solution that requires one set of players in the economy to sacrifice (beyond immediate family) for the good of others will likely fail because not viable, even if it is theoretically sustainable. Of course, it is pretty laughable to describe the current agricultural system in the U.S. as anything resembling a free market, so...?

[enigmaT120]

So many subsidies. That's a big chunk of our welfare spending, it's just not counted as such.

[NPV]

Recent study showing that optimal intake for increasing muscle mass over age 40 is 1.6g protein/lb of body weight. Form of protein made no difference.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/07/well ... er-40.html

Of course, overall health value of increasing muscle mass might be relative to total body weight, so senior citizen who is currently skinny-weak would derive most benefit from increased protein intake, whereas middle-aged female who already "looks more like a chubby teenage girl than most women her age" (sigh)might derive more benefit from simple decrease of total simple carbohydrate calorie intake. The super-efficiency of sugar cane does not come close to covering the inefficiencies in the cost of modern medicine.

Very interesting study, thanks for pointing it out! An important correction is they found no additional benefits from increasing protein consumption above 1.6 grams per kg of body weight, not per lb - which seems like a modest amount for me.

One funny-interesting point is below the abstract:
"Conflict of interest statement
Competing interests: SMP has received grant support, travel expenses, and honoraria for presentations from the US National Dairy Council. This agency has supported trials reviewed in this analysis."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28698222 Doesn't necessarily discredit the results, but does shed some light on the prevalence of whey protein focused studies in the meta sample.

Where did the study make the point that protein source (animal vs. plant) made no difference? I haven't found it: http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2018/ ... 017-097608 That would be a big deal as conventional weightlifting wisdom holds that plant proteins are largely useless due to incomplete amino chain composition, and if there is empirical evidence that plant protein is just as good for muscle building, that would make combining weightlifting/bodybuilding, ERE and health easier.

[BRUTE]

anecdotes, but.. brute is convinced that different proteins are completely different.

beef protein makes brute extremely full for hours. the same amount of whey protein actually makes brute more hungry. maybe the main benefit of whey protein to bodybuilders is that it drives insulin like crazy, making them hungry and therefore enabling them to eat more?

that said, if a human is not into bodybuilding or weight lifting, protein is probably overrated.

[GandK]

I started Keto on January 31st in the hopes that it would improve my now-chronic migraines.

Not sure if it's effective for headaches yet. But so far I've lost 10 pounds, I have heartburn every night, and I'm occasionally nauseated. I find myself frequently craving peanut butter (? I don't normally eat/like peanut butter), and pretty much every food now tastes much sweeter to me. I find that to be the weirdest side effect by far. When feta cheese tastes sweet, it seems to me that there might be a problem.

[Kriegsspiel]

That's just the ketones ripping out the toxins, it's a good thing.

[BRUTE]

When feta cheese tastes sweet, it seems to me that there might be a problem.

many foods actually contain sugar, especially dairy products, but not nearly enough to stand out against soda and candy. brute's palate has changed pretty dramatically on keto.

butter now tastes sweet. cream is sweet as fuck. 90% cocoa dark chocolate is very sweet. many vegetables taste sweet.

[theanimal]

butter now tastes sweet. cream is sweet as fuck. 90% cocoa dark chocolate is very sweet. many vegetables taste sweet.

+1. I only eat 100% chocolate now. 90% tastes like milk chocolate and anything less tastes like garbage.

Cream is like a super dessert. Ice cream without the sugar.

I do get the peanut butter cravings like K from time to time. But if I don't have peanut butter for a while it ends up tasting not so good as well.

[Toska2]

For those that are keeping track.

What is your fat intake profile? Saturated, mono and poly. I'd estimate mine is 80-85/5-10/5-10. I feel like I shoud ditch coconut oil (I take a small swig if my meal seems light in fat) for another oil. This is considering that I crockpot 8oz suet or 24 oz bacon with a 3 - 3.5 lb roast. Limiting my cheese intake to under 16 oz/day.

[BRUTE]

not tracking explicitly, but probably similar. mostly saturated.

why ditch the coconut oil?

[Toska2]

This is my first week (month?) trying keto. Since I crockpot suet, lard and bacon by the lb some of it is liquid fat and the rest solid tallow. This makes my main meal highly varible in fat content, all saturated. If I eat too much my stomach churns a half hour later. The dead simple way to prevent this is to eat smaller meals. Sometimes this isnt possible. I am hoping a small meal of highly saturated fat combined with a mono or poly fat will reduce the stomach issue.


If you are doing this without nuts where are your mono and poly fats coming from?