I just broke up with my girlfriend.
Reason was basically, she wanted more sex than me (1-2x per day, me more like 1-2x per week, sometimes I did it just for her but that was of course not very satisfying for both of us)
I accepted that it would have been selfish from me to try to keep her / stop her from having sex with other guys if I could not provide enough for her.
Still now I'm kinda sad and kinda jealous as well that she has sex with some other guy.
(but I'm actually more pissed at myself that I could not provide for her, feel like half a man now, and that I didn't fixed the problem long ago)
I also did a test of my testosterone levels a few years ago, they are low for a 32 year old (420 ng/dL), but I never took the issue serious enough to get therapy (also I was kinda scared of some side effects / get dependent on it)
I'm also very prone to depression, which I think can also be related to my low hormonal levels (there are proven correlations between low test and depression). So that is also a big reason I'm thinking about therapy.
My nutrition should not be the problem I think, I have a typical male diet with lot of protein and so on, and I don't drink or smoke, and I also exercise from time to time (but could do more of course). Also I think there is only so much you can do with nutrition (like going from 400 to 550, but surely not to 1000)
Because of all these reasons, I think I want to get testosterone therapy.
This will prolong my ERE plans because I think it's quite expensive, but my health is more important than ERE.
Has anyone here experience with it ?
If yes, what changes did you experience ? (good & bad)
testosterone therapy
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Spartan_Warrior
- Posts: 1659
- Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:24 am
Re: testosterone therapy
It's been a while since I was really into this stuff, but 420 doesn't strike me as a super low test score for a 32 year old of moderate activity level. Dietary and exercise factors can actually have a huge impact on endogenous hormone production, so if you want to increase your testosterone levels, I would definitely hit these areas hard before looking at exogenous sources. Eat more red meat and saturated fats. Do more squats and deadlifts. Sleep more and consistently.
Before you even mentioned it, though, my first suspicion was depression being the actual culprit more than testosterone per se. I think talking to a professional about this situation and your feelings would probably be your best next move before jumping into testosterone therapy.
If it's not too late, I don't see why you couldn't talk to your girlfriend and let her know basically what you said here, that you feel guilty about it and you are looking into fixing the issue. It might not have to be the end. (Unless you already did this and were still at an impasse.)
The other factor is, regardless of testosterone levels or mental health, you may just naturally have a lower sex drive. I feel like there are probably ways to overcome a mismatch in sex drive within a relationship if both of you are willing to work on it. This might be where a therapist (perhaps a couples' therapist) could help you further.
In any case, that's rough, man! Hang in there and go do some squats.
Before you even mentioned it, though, my first suspicion was depression being the actual culprit more than testosterone per se. I think talking to a professional about this situation and your feelings would probably be your best next move before jumping into testosterone therapy.
If it's not too late, I don't see why you couldn't talk to your girlfriend and let her know basically what you said here, that you feel guilty about it and you are looking into fixing the issue. It might not have to be the end. (Unless you already did this and were still at an impasse.)
The other factor is, regardless of testosterone levels or mental health, you may just naturally have a lower sex drive. I feel like there are probably ways to overcome a mismatch in sex drive within a relationship if both of you are willing to work on it. This might be where a therapist (perhaps a couples' therapist) could help you further.
In any case, that's rough, man! Hang in there and go do some squats.
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Spartan_Warrior
- Posts: 1659
- Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:24 am
Re: testosterone therapy
Here's an article from a guy who went from 383 to 800+ using natural (diet and exercise) methods: http://www.artofmanliness.com/2013/01/1 ... naturally/
Re: testosterone therapy
I'm curious what my testosterone level is.
How expensive and involved is testosterone testing? Is a blood test still the common method? (I saw a bit about saliva tests, and that they may not be as accurate). Is this likely to be covered by insurance as preventative care?
How expensive and involved is testosterone testing? Is a blood test still the common method? (I saw a bit about saliva tests, and that they may not be as accurate). Is this likely to be covered by insurance as preventative care?
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The Old Man
- Posts: 504
- Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2012 5:55 pm
Re: testosterone therapy
Testosterone, Serum (Total)
Reference Population: 348-1197 ng/dL
Adult male reference interval is based on a population of lean males up to 40 years old.
The above information comes from a set of blood tests I had done with LabCorp.
Your testosterone levels are within the normal range. I would look towards natural methods to improve your metrics.
Reference Population: 348-1197 ng/dL
Adult male reference interval is based on a population of lean males up to 40 years old.
The above information comes from a set of blood tests I had done with LabCorp.
Your testosterone levels are within the normal range. I would look towards natural methods to improve your metrics.
Re: testosterone therapy
But with 420 I'm already at the very low end, and this range is for all age groupsGeneral Snoopy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:18 pmTestosterone, Serum (Total)
Reference Population: 348-1197 ng/dL
Adult male reference interval is based on a population of lean males up to 40 years old.
The above information comes from a set of blood tests I had done with LabCorp.
Your testosterone levels are within the normal range. I would look towards natural methods to improve your metrics.
An average 32 year old male will have a level more like ~600-700
My date with the doctor is in one month, so the next month I will do:
- lot of exercise (mostly squats, benchpress and deadlifts)
- get good sleep
- work on nutrition as much as possible
and then get my level checked.
Re: testosterone therapy
Does anyone know what the consensus is on light cardio exercise on testosterone production ?
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Spartan_Warrior
- Posts: 1659
- Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:24 am
Re: testosterone therapy
@C40: Insurance would rarely cover it. Most people go to their primary care doctor anyway to have them order the test (just in case), but I think you can skip the doctor and pay the testing companies out of pocket a couple hundred dollars to order the test directly. Either way, you get sent to a lab for blood work, and get results by mail/email.
@Frosti: Without knowing your body composition (if you are severely overweight, it might be more of a factor), my intuition would be to keep cardio short in duration and moderate-to-high in intensity. Long, light-intensity cardio is not likely to have much impact on test levels and could even be detrimental if it ends up putting you in a catabolic state (where you body removes muscle mass to feed itself). Instead you want to do things that add lean mass, which increases testosterone. Look to the exercise and diet programs of power lifters and strength trainers. Generally speaking, you just want to move the heaviest weights you can, using compound movements, for no more than an hour a few times a week. If you don't have experience with this kind of training, the Starting Strength program/book by Mark Rippetoe would be my recommendation.
@Frosti: Without knowing your body composition (if you are severely overweight, it might be more of a factor), my intuition would be to keep cardio short in duration and moderate-to-high in intensity. Long, light-intensity cardio is not likely to have much impact on test levels and could even be detrimental if it ends up putting you in a catabolic state (where you body removes muscle mass to feed itself). Instead you want to do things that add lean mass, which increases testosterone. Look to the exercise and diet programs of power lifters and strength trainers. Generally speaking, you just want to move the heaviest weights you can, using compound movements, for no more than an hour a few times a week. If you don't have experience with this kind of training, the Starting Strength program/book by Mark Rippetoe would be my recommendation.
Re: testosterone therapy
A couple hundred bucks!? Man.... Maybe I'll see if it's cheaper when I'm in Mexico this winter.
Re: testosterone therapy
A few decades ago, I did a college paper on Bulgarian weight lifters. The emphasis was on maximizing testosterone benefits.
The basics are: 1) strenuous exercise for no longer than 45 minutes because testosterone drops after that 2) consuming a lot of pork amino acids.
The basics are: 1) strenuous exercise for no longer than 45 minutes because testosterone drops after that 2) consuming a lot of pork amino acids.
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Riggerjack
- Posts: 3191
- Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:09 am
Re: testosterone therapy
7w5 goes on about hormone levels. So much that I had mine checked a year and a half ago.
To my surprise, i tested in the low 100's. I started taking the gel, and my next test I was over 1300. I have been bouncing all over the place ever since.
I doubt your issue is testosterone related to the point that replacement therapy will fix it the way you want. I haven't noticed any difference in sex drive. As I have gotten older, my drive has slowed to where it isn't a constant pressure anymore, and that's been nice. 3-5 times a week is fine instead of frustrating. This didn't change with the gel.
I drink about a pot of coffee a day. Strong coffee. I don't feel much of a caffeine rush anymore, but those days when I skip coffee entirely, that is the very worst very low testosterone felt like. And when my testosterone was highest, it wasn't a noticeable difference from any other time.
I continue more for trying to level out than any real benefit in how I feel or sex drive.
I've allowed myself to become quite the fat bastard, just over six foot, and over 325 lbs. Fat is not as inert as originally thought. It has hormonal impact. If this could be a factor for you, I would focus on fat loss more than replacement. And lifting is always good.
And I pay $65 for the free T4 test.
To my surprise, i tested in the low 100's. I started taking the gel, and my next test I was over 1300. I have been bouncing all over the place ever since.
I doubt your issue is testosterone related to the point that replacement therapy will fix it the way you want. I haven't noticed any difference in sex drive. As I have gotten older, my drive has slowed to where it isn't a constant pressure anymore, and that's been nice. 3-5 times a week is fine instead of frustrating. This didn't change with the gel.
I drink about a pot of coffee a day. Strong coffee. I don't feel much of a caffeine rush anymore, but those days when I skip coffee entirely, that is the very worst very low testosterone felt like. And when my testosterone was highest, it wasn't a noticeable difference from any other time.
I continue more for trying to level out than any real benefit in how I feel or sex drive.
I've allowed myself to become quite the fat bastard, just over six foot, and over 325 lbs. Fat is not as inert as originally thought. It has hormonal impact. If this could be a factor for you, I would focus on fat loss more than replacement. And lifting is always good.
And I pay $65 for the free T4 test.
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slowtraveler
- Posts: 722
- Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:06 pm
Re: testosterone therapy
Would this be a problem if it wasn't for your ex?
I've met people who need it multiple times a day and others who are fine with once a week. It sounds like you 2 simply had a mismatch in your drives.
I've met people who need it multiple times a day and others who are fine with once a week. It sounds like you 2 simply had a mismatch in your drives.
Re: testosterone therapy
First off, as a female who is at the opposite end of the spectrum (like your ex), I commend you for coming forward with this problem. It's much more common than most people think.
Testosterone therapy might help, but only if you think that you could accommodate yourself to liking the feeling of having a higher sex drive, and then be able to integrate that feeling into your sexual identity and philosophy or mythology. If testosterone therapy does "work" to cause you to have a higher drive, it will likely have a qualitative as well as a quantitative effect. It will likely require or demand you to in some ways change what sex means to you.
It is kind of like the same/opposite reason why often appetite suppressants do not work for obese people. They like, and have formed some part of their identity, around the feeling of hunger and the subsequent gratification of that feeling.
Testosterone therapy is most effective in situations where a person is seeking to restore a feeling they had formerly normalized for themselves. For instance, in the case of a formerly high drive man who is aging. I had a lover who used it and he said it instantly fixed the feeling that "he was a dry leaf, just blowing around."
Another important factor is that inherent testosterone sensitivity can vary as much as actual testosterone levels. I don't have particularly high levels for a female, but I am very sensitive. My drive noticeably increases when I work out intensively on a regular basis, and I swear I sometimes get thrown into high gear just due to exposure to man sweat. Luckily, I am very lazy, otherwise weight rooms would probably be like crack dens for me.
Anyways, I have been in several relationships with men with significantly lower drives than mine, and I have also been in relationships with men with fairly high drives, but suffering from functional issues due to age. Your mature recognition of the problem already puts you ahead of the curve. Some other suggestions might be:
1) If she is a personality type that generally requires high level of stimulation, structure this into your relationship in realms that are not sexual. Terrible analogy would be think about it as being like having a very active dog like a young terrier. If you can't take her out for a long walk, then give her something else to distract herself with like a puzzle toy with a treat in the middle. (Important note here being that it is also totally okay to just recognize accept that you don't really want to deal with this level of hassle and would prefer different sort of pet.) For instance, "Not now. Let's take a nap, and then I will take you to the concert in the park.I will take care of that other job tomorrow. (smack to ass)" GOOD. "What is wrong with you? Don't you know that the world is a terrible place, and I have already seen you naked too many times. You are sucking the life out of me." BAD
2) Let her orgasm in your presence without your full participation some of the time. Lifting weights might help with this too, because any sort of bulging muscle might do in a pinch, especially if you phone it in too.
3) Polyamory or swinging. If you can overcome any feelings of jealousy or possessiveness, and you greatly other aspects of your relationship, this might work very well for you. The variety might pique your drive, and the abundance will keep her content.
Testosterone therapy might help, but only if you think that you could accommodate yourself to liking the feeling of having a higher sex drive, and then be able to integrate that feeling into your sexual identity and philosophy or mythology. If testosterone therapy does "work" to cause you to have a higher drive, it will likely have a qualitative as well as a quantitative effect. It will likely require or demand you to in some ways change what sex means to you.
It is kind of like the same/opposite reason why often appetite suppressants do not work for obese people. They like, and have formed some part of their identity, around the feeling of hunger and the subsequent gratification of that feeling.
Testosterone therapy is most effective in situations where a person is seeking to restore a feeling they had formerly normalized for themselves. For instance, in the case of a formerly high drive man who is aging. I had a lover who used it and he said it instantly fixed the feeling that "he was a dry leaf, just blowing around."
Another important factor is that inherent testosterone sensitivity can vary as much as actual testosterone levels. I don't have particularly high levels for a female, but I am very sensitive. My drive noticeably increases when I work out intensively on a regular basis, and I swear I sometimes get thrown into high gear just due to exposure to man sweat. Luckily, I am very lazy, otherwise weight rooms would probably be like crack dens for me.
Anyways, I have been in several relationships with men with significantly lower drives than mine, and I have also been in relationships with men with fairly high drives, but suffering from functional issues due to age. Your mature recognition of the problem already puts you ahead of the curve. Some other suggestions might be:
1) If she is a personality type that generally requires high level of stimulation, structure this into your relationship in realms that are not sexual. Terrible analogy would be think about it as being like having a very active dog like a young terrier. If you can't take her out for a long walk, then give her something else to distract herself with like a puzzle toy with a treat in the middle. (Important note here being that it is also totally okay to just recognize accept that you don't really want to deal with this level of hassle and would prefer different sort of pet.) For instance, "Not now. Let's take a nap, and then I will take you to the concert in the park.I will take care of that other job tomorrow. (smack to ass)" GOOD. "What is wrong with you? Don't you know that the world is a terrible place, and I have already seen you naked too many times. You are sucking the life out of me." BAD
2) Let her orgasm in your presence without your full participation some of the time. Lifting weights might help with this too, because any sort of bulging muscle might do in a pinch, especially if you phone it in too.
3) Polyamory or swinging. If you can overcome any feelings of jealousy or possessiveness, and you greatly other aspects of your relationship, this might work very well for you. The variety might pique your drive, and the abundance will keep her content.
Re: testosterone therapy
Thanks for the answers so far, it's really a great help to me to get opinions from others.
Thanks especialy to 7Wannabe5, that was a great answer.
The thing is, when I was 20-25 I actually had a great sex drive and could easily have sex multiple times a day
(was together with my first girlfriend in that time and had some ONS)
But then I was single for a period of almost 7 years and also became quite heavily depressed in that time frame.
And I think it kinda killed my sex drive, but then I got together with my now girlfriend
(we are still together, I will explain shortly) and in the beginning our sex was not very good because I had accumulated
a lot of insecurities in the past years and was not feeling good about myself at all.
So the action plan is now:
Thanks especialy to 7Wannabe5, that was a great answer.
The thing is, when I was 20-25 I actually had a great sex drive and could easily have sex multiple times a day
(was together with my first girlfriend in that time and had some ONS)
But then I was single for a period of almost 7 years and also became quite heavily depressed in that time frame.
And I think it kinda killed my sex drive, but then I got together with my now girlfriend
(we are still together, I will explain shortly) and in the beginning our sex was not very good because I had accumulated
a lot of insecurities in the past years and was not feeling good about myself at all.
So the action plan is now:
- exercise a lot especially hard lifts like squats, deadlift
maximize diet for sex drive
do some "exercises" to become more sexual again and get more self condidence
(just me forcing myself to think about sex because in my long time alone I kinda learned to not think about sex anymore)
still will get my T levels checked and might consider therapy, because I think the low levels could also explain my depression problems which I definitelly don't want to have
Re: testosterone therapy
To continue the story:
We are still together.
Last saturday I saw her and we cuddled a lot and also had sex and she seemed to be happy.
Will see her again this weekend.
We had a poly relationship right from the beginning, she was still living with her "old" boyfriend, but they didn't have sex.
That was not a problem at all to me, but I was only focused on her and she also on me.
I also made a lot of mistakes in the relationship, I was acting egoistic and cold sometimes towards her which I regret now a lot.
In the beginning of our relationship there was a timeframe when the sex got better, but then it got worse because
I let my insecurities control me instead of just relaxing and enjoying the time with her (which is what she wanted)
So she became dissatisfied with our sex life and it was my fault.
Right now she is doing a startup with some guys (and sleeps with one of them) and I can only see her once a week.
It's not a problem for me that she has sex with this other guy and I also understand her.
I got very sad suddenly because I realized how much I really loved her and that I could now lose her because I fucked
up and was too egoistic and didn't care enough about her.
But she said to me she still loves me and wants to be together with me in the future.
So I want to use this time to build myself up again and fix my problems and insecurities.
We are still together.
Last saturday I saw her and we cuddled a lot and also had sex and she seemed to be happy.
Will see her again this weekend.
We had a poly relationship right from the beginning, she was still living with her "old" boyfriend, but they didn't have sex.
That was not a problem at all to me, but I was only focused on her and she also on me.
I also made a lot of mistakes in the relationship, I was acting egoistic and cold sometimes towards her which I regret now a lot.
In the beginning of our relationship there was a timeframe when the sex got better, but then it got worse because
I let my insecurities control me instead of just relaxing and enjoying the time with her (which is what she wanted)
So she became dissatisfied with our sex life and it was my fault.
Right now she is doing a startup with some guys (and sleeps with one of them) and I can only see her once a week.
It's not a problem for me that she has sex with this other guy and I also understand her.
I got very sad suddenly because I realized how much I really loved her and that I could now lose her because I fucked
up and was too egoistic and didn't care enough about her.
But she said to me she still loves me and wants to be together with me in the future.
So I want to use this time to build myself up again and fix my problems and insecurities.
Re: testosterone therapy
Poly and engaged in a start-up? Yup, sounds like an ENTP. There aren't that many ENTP females, and we are not well represented as characters. The title character of the movie "Juno" is an ENTP and the boy who knocks her up when she seduces him for chair sex is an NF. Sounds like maybe you are too. It's the sad puppy dog eyes that suck us in 
I think it is great that you are committed to self-aware self-care and mutual acceptance. I kind of envy people who do have the ability to shut down their sex drive. The only way I can do it is by purposefully choosing to engage in unhealthy activities that would make me feel depressed. For instance, if I spent the whole day in a darkened room, eating macaroni and cheese, sipping beer and watching something boring on television. Any day that I get exercise, fresh air and sunshine, eat healthily, experience novelty, study something of interest, or engage in exploration, I am going to want to get laid too.
My current BF has a lower drive than me, and we met when I was practicing polyamory, so he has given me free license to have sex with other men, but only if they are younger than me, because he knows that will keep him in primary position. However, I haven't taken advantage of this liberty yet because I am not comfortable in the role of cougar. I want him to date other women too because I think he is too soon off of his divorce to be monogamous, and it's healthier to have more sex (especially as you are aging), and men react more to variety.
I think it is great that you are committed to self-aware self-care and mutual acceptance. I kind of envy people who do have the ability to shut down their sex drive. The only way I can do it is by purposefully choosing to engage in unhealthy activities that would make me feel depressed. For instance, if I spent the whole day in a darkened room, eating macaroni and cheese, sipping beer and watching something boring on television. Any day that I get exercise, fresh air and sunshine, eat healthily, experience novelty, study something of interest, or engage in exploration, I am going to want to get laid too.
My current BF has a lower drive than me, and we met when I was practicing polyamory, so he has given me free license to have sex with other men, but only if they are younger than me, because he knows that will keep him in primary position. However, I haven't taken advantage of this liberty yet because I am not comfortable in the role of cougar. I want him to date other women too because I think he is too soon off of his divorce to be monogamous, and it's healthier to have more sex (especially as you are aging), and men react more to variety.
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EdithKeeler
- Posts: 1099
- Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2013 7:55 pm
Re: testosterone therapy
Do you drink alcohol? It has a significant negative impact on T.
Re: testosterone therapy
Low sex drive and prone to depression? Be careful not to self-diagnose a testosterone problem, as other things can cause that as well. For example, you might want to get your thyroid levels checked.
Re: testosterone therapy
every case is diffrent, but why using external factor before maxing what's in your control?
yea, this couldn't the easiest task if you don't like your job and don't have many degress of freedom.
was seeing local internet tough bodybuilding guys who went hardcore during their 15-30, but now are suffering in their 35+.
yea, this couldn't the easiest task if you don't like your job and don't have many degress of freedom.
was seeing local internet tough bodybuilding guys who went hardcore during their 15-30, but now are suffering in their 35+.
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enigmaT120
- Posts: 1240
- Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2015 2:14 pm
- Location: Falls City, OR
Re: testosterone therapy
Edith wrote:
"Do you drink alcohol? It has a significant negative impact on T."
Not enough impact.
"Do you drink alcohol? It has a significant negative impact on T."
Not enough impact.