What Do You Eat for Weight Loss?

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steveo73
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Re: What Do You Eat for Weight Loss?

Post by steveo73 » Sat Dec 10, 2016 3:56 am

BRUTE wrote:
steveo73 wrote:This is not a subject with subjective evidence behind it or maybe better put the evidence is pretty clear cut. .. It's simply a matter of eating healthy food a lot more than unhealthy food. Placing food into the correct categories is actually easy.
so if a human ate a diet almost exclusively consisting of red meat, butter, heavy cream, bacon, MCT/coconut oil, coffee, and some vegetables for taste (soaked in butter), would that human move towards being more healthy or less healthy? and which health markers exactly should be expected to move in which directions?
That would definitely be unhealthy. I would expect over time that you would have higher cholesterol readings and even if you weren't overweight you would develop atherosclerosis.

The problem is that you may believe everything is okay but at some point a diet like that is leading you towards a path of suffering from strokes, heart disease etc.

BRUTE
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Re: What Do You Eat for Weight Loss?

Post by BRUTE » Sat Dec 10, 2016 12:40 pm

well, there are known markers for stroke, heart disease, diabetes, and so on. the best one for heart disease currently known seems to be the ratio of HDL to triglycerides - and a high fat diet optimizes this ratio. diabetes has HgA1c, which is absolutely lower than anything on a keto diet (it's basically inversely related to carb consumption). stroke brute isn't sure about the markers.

regarding body fat, it has gone in the opposite direction pretty dramatically. fasting/keto has led to more muscle and less body fat.

steveo73
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Re: What Do You Eat for Weight Loss?

Post by steveo73 » Sat Dec 10, 2016 4:22 pm

BRUTE wrote:well, there are known markers for stroke, heart disease, diabetes, and so on. the best one for heart disease currently known seems to be the ratio of HDL to triglycerides - and a high fat diet optimizes this ratio. diabetes has HgA1c, which is absolutely lower than anything on a keto diet (it's basically inversely related to carb consumption). stroke brute isn't sure about the markers.

regarding body fat, it has gone in the opposite direction pretty dramatically. fasting/keto has led to more muscle and less body fat.
Brute - do you understand the difference between anecdotal evidence and empirical scientific evidence ? I'll give an example. My grandfather smoked for years. He only had mild emphysema right before he died and he had a good death. One week of going in and out and then he died of old age. Does that mean that smoking is okay ?

Some other good questions to answer for yourself could be:-

1. Do technical discussions of complex subjects where people state things that have no relevance in the big picture matter ?
2. Can you potentially be thin and still suffer from atherosclerosis ?
3. Does empirical scientific data have any part in your belief system ?

BRUTE
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Re: What Do You Eat for Weight Loss?

Post by BRUTE » Sat Dec 10, 2016 5:45 pm

what does anecdotal evidence vs. empirical evidence have to do with different health markers like HgA1c, HDL, trigs..?

1.they do to brute
2.presumably, yes
3.a certain part, but brute takes it with a grain of salt - brute has seen so much difference between "science" (or what others claim is science) and what brute has seen work in real life, that he must ask himself if "science" isn't just a label that humans throw on stuff when they don't have arguments.

for example, if going vegan makes brute feel miserable and only produces moderate fat loss, while eating keto makes him feel great and produces much better fat loss, combined with less muscle loss, what's brute supposed to do? ignore reality?

in addition, lots of nutrition "science" is just bullshit. brute has no respect for the label science, brute has respect for well-done studies. most nutritional studies are not well done.

for example, brute doesn't care much for correlation, epidemiology, studies in mice, studies where the "low-carb, high-fat ketogenic diet" consisted of 30% sugar, 30% casein, and 40% trans fats, or any other such nonsense.

slowtraveler
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Re: What Do You Eat for Weight Loss?

Post by slowtraveler » Mon Dec 12, 2016 7:17 am

@7wannabe5
I agree on exercising more. I don't feel I'm eating much more than before (always feasted) but exercise has gradually decreased, and weight has followed suit to increase. Biking has been on my mind for a while so this may be a great opportunity to habitualize that.

I do keep a vegetable soup always ready, prepared every few days.

@Brute
I appreciate your bravery in standing for your beliefs. I also have no doubt that this may work very well for you (seems to be high protein & fat, virtually no carbs, few veggies).

I used to eat a lot of protein but found it made my stomach hurt more. For me-short term fasting feels great, as does eating less food, and more veggies.

You mentioned health problems that can come up from excessive vegetables but this seems like something that would happen at extremes.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 4016300775

Talks about one of the many uses of fiber, to help your gut bacteria produce butyrate.

http://www.webmd.com/diet/guide/high-pr ... rate-diets

Mentions some of the risks of high protein-ie-increased kidney stone risks.

Interesting to mention is that high protein often helps with weight loss, counteracting many health risks.

@Steveo3 & Vexed87
I think you missed the part where I talked about adding in more vegetables, eating less simple carbs, and making these into long term habits. I'm in agreement there.

Medium term fasting is simply a tool I'm considering to facilitate paying off this debt I've accumulated.

Update: Seems I've reached an equilibrium, around 210 lbs.

Still eating less bread and sugar. Still drinking green juice most days, vegetable soup daily, checking in before eating.

Once holidays are over, I plan to add vegetable soup for 3 vegetable based meals a day, integrate biweekly fasting (24-36hrs), cut sugar and bread completely, and add in daily biking.

Exactly in what order is still up in the air. I do best at building habits one at a time.

steveo73
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Re: What Do You Eat for Weight Loss?

Post by steveo73 » Mon Dec 12, 2016 3:33 pm

Felipe - that all sounds good to me. I personally don't think diet is that hard. You just have to try and make it a lifestyle choice. I think the idea of fasting sounds like a short term measure. I really have no issues with that so long as you get into leading a healthy lifestyle.

7Wannabe5
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Re: What Do You Eat for Weight Loss?

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Mon Dec 12, 2016 3:43 pm

BRUTE said: 2700/9 is 300g of fat per day. really not that expensive.
Half pound of butter and a dozen eggs is going to run me about $4/2500 kcal. The same number of calories in the form of Vanilla Sandwich Cookies purchased at the Dollar Tree would run me only around $1.50. Ergo, I would have to have at least an extra $30,000 saved up to retire on the scrambled eggs diet rather than the cookie diet, and I am not even taking into consideration the fuel and time necessary to cook the eggs.

Unfortunately, I must report that my repeated attempts to survive on the all cookie and no exercise diet have ended in failure due to unpleasant feeling of shakiness followed by drooling mid-afternoon nap. However, I once did very well for around 3 or 4 months while eating almost nothing but homemade biscuits and frozen green peas with daily regimen of Jane Fonda workout on cassette tape. My catfish, spinach salad and apple-caramel lollipops diet and walking 8 miles/day with hyper-active dog regime also led to rapid loss of a serious chunk of body fat.

Counting calories in and out is f*ck-all tedious, but it does work, and offers the most degrees of freedom.

BRUTE
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Re: What Do You Eat for Weight Loss?

Post by BRUTE » Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:34 am

probably depends on the definition of freedom. for brute, keto + fasting offers much more freedom than anything he's tried before - freedom from counting, freedom from hunger, freedom from cravings. freedom from eating, really.

in other news, brute forgot how cheap carbs are. been so long.

edit: the comparison isn't really fair, though. if 7Wannabe5 is going to compare high-quality foods like butter and eggs to cheap sugar and wheat. what's a gallon of vegetable oil run these days?

7Wannabe5
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Re: What Do You Eat for Weight Loss?

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:32 am

BRUTE said: the comparison isn't really fair, though. if 7Wannabe5 is going to compare high-quality foods like butter and eggs to cheap sugar and wheat. what's a gallon of vegetable oil run these days?
I was trying to make it apples to apples at the level of least expensive example people actually find palatable. Better example might be 2500 calories of whole oats and bananas vs. 2500 calories of deviled eggs prepared with heavy dollop of mayo. Using mayo instead of butter might lower the cost of fat/protein to around $3.50 and using whole oats and bananas might raise the cost of carb/plant to around $2.50.
probably depends on the definition of freedom. for brute, keto + fasting offers much more freedom than anything he's tried before - freedom from counting, freedom from hunger, freedom from cravings. freedom from eating, really.
Right. Like how if you work for a corporation in a narrow job description you are freed from having to make a million different decisions. You just go through your daily routine like a panda eating bamboo.

BRUTE
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Re: What Do You Eat for Weight Loss?

Post by BRUTE » Tue Dec 13, 2016 10:15 am

also like meditation frees one from worry. brute never worries about food any more. he still thinks about it a lot, but it's no big deal to not eat for 24h when the plane only serves crap and the airport restaurants are ridiculous.

vezkor
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Re: What Do You Eat for Weight Loss?

Post by vezkor » Tue Dec 13, 2016 4:50 pm

BRUTE wrote:also like meditation frees one from worry. brute never worries about food any more. he still thinks about it a lot, but it's no big deal to not eat for 24h when the plane only serves crap and the airport restaurants are ridiculous.
Better yet to not fly

BRUTE
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Re: What Do You Eat for Weight Loss?

Post by BRUTE » Tue Dec 13, 2016 9:55 pm

7Wannabe5 wrote:Like how if you work for a corporation in a narrow job description you are freed from having to make a million different decisions. You just go through your daily routine like a panda eating bamboo.
brute has been thinking about this. for him, it's exactly the opposite.

if hunger is like material desires, keto/fasting is like ERE. instead of being addicted to carbs or living paycheck to paycheck, there's freedom to abstain. both might look like huge sacrifices to others, who think they could never live without {a car/a mcmansion/cake/pasta/daily meals}. yet through adhering to these "limitations", other freedoms are gained - retiring from work, or from hunger.

7Wannabe5
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Re: What Do You Eat for Weight Loss?

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Wed Dec 14, 2016 7:07 am

@BRUTE: My true-not-silly objection to your ideal diet is that I have attempted it on numerous occasions, and it does not work for "ME" due to eventual lack of compliance. I think it is great if it works for you or anybody else. I also think that obesity is a problem that is wide-spread, serious and complex enough that any combination of motivators and practices that work for anybody ought to red-stamped as FANTASTIC!!! I would even go so far as to suggest that maybe they ought to put the cocaine back in Coke.

I think a couple of the under-explored topics related to obesity are hydration and temperature. Both over-hydration and under-hydration lead to reduction in appetite. I think that is why people who drink their calories tend towards really ballooning. Also, it seems to me that one "cheat" for quick re-set of fat burn/appetite reduction after ingestion of carbohydrates is to simply pop an OTC diuretic with a large mug of black coffee chaser. Obviously, doing something like running several miles on the beach (if you want to paint appealing picture) or riding several miles on an exercise bike you ground-scored on the curb while wearing a suit you constructed out of Hefty bags and duct-tape (less appealing picture) would likely also prove helpful. OTOH, activities such as swimming in cold water, hiking through the snow, or sitting in air conditioning tend towards increasing appetite.

Papers of Indenture
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Re: What Do You Eat for Weight Loss?

Post by Papers of Indenture » Wed Dec 14, 2016 11:09 am

Nutritionfacts.org is interesting. Every time I go there and browse I leave less sure of anything than when I arrived.

The comment section almost always become a sea of sincere people trying to come to terms with conflicting studies and overall confusion.

oldbeyond
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Re: What Do You Eat for Weight Loss?

Post by oldbeyond » Thu Dec 15, 2016 2:18 pm

I'd say the two most important variables are energy density(decrease) and food quality(increase). Determining the specifics of the latter can be murky, but you come a long way by avoiding "food products" and instead buying "whole foods".

BRUTE
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Re: What Do You Eat for Weight Loss?

Post by BRUTE » Fri Dec 16, 2016 2:46 am

what's bad about high food density?

vexed87
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Re: What Do You Eat for Weight Loss?

Post by vexed87 » Fri Dec 16, 2016 6:53 am

Do you mean high calorie density? It often leads to overconsumption of calories, generally speaking.

https://www.nutrition.org.uk/healthyliv ... -meal.html

Erenymous
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Re: What Do You Eat for Weight Loss?

Post by Erenymous » Fri Dec 16, 2016 7:30 am

Yeah, if you eat sugar or carbs. It's really hard to eat too much fat or protein.

vexed87
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Re: What Do You Eat for Weight Loss?

Post by vexed87 » Fri Dec 16, 2016 8:31 am

It's really hard to eat too much fat or protein.
It's really not that hard?!

Low GI foods help with satiety. Thereby avoiding overconsumption of caloies. https://www.nutrition.org.uk/healthyliv ... carbs.html

BRUTE
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Re: What Do You Eat for Weight Loss?

Post by BRUTE » Sat Dec 17, 2016 1:43 am

vexed87 wrote:Low GI foods help with satiety.
good. brute eats lots of fat. fat doesn't have a GI.

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