What Do You Eat for Weight Loss?

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Gravy Train
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Re: What Do You Eat for Weight Loss?

Post by Gravy Train » Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:31 pm

Just because I keep seeing people mention it on this forum and IRL, I feel compelled to say the following:

The ketogenic diet ("keto") was developed for treating epilepsy in children. Starving your body of carbohydrates forces your liver to "burn" fat instead, which increases the level of ketones in your blood. Turns out the elevated ketone level reduced the rate of seizures in epileptic children.

However, elevated levels of ketones in your blood could lead to ketoacidosis, a potentially life-threatening condition.

It's not a diet that normal, healthy people should follow. Ask your doctor.
_______

As for what I personally do for weight loss, it's just common sense. I gained 35 pounds during my last pregnancy and lost it all after nine months by having a normal* diet and engaging in moderate** exercise.

*Seriously, just read this: https://health.gov/dietaryguidelines/
**I walk 20-30 minutes a day to and from work. That's it, unless you count chasing around a toddler.

ajcoleman22
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Re: What Do You Eat for Weight Loss?

Post by ajcoleman22 » Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:53 pm

Ketoacidosis results from having insulin issues. If you are not a type 1 diabetic, this is a non-issue.

suomalainen
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Re: What Do You Eat for Weight Loss?

Post by suomalainen » Thu Nov 15, 2018 3:54 pm

Gravy Train wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:31 pm
by having a normal* diet and engaging in moderate** exercise.
Well, that's just it, right? The crux of the issue seems to be that there is disagreement on what a "normal" diet is. Is "normal" what most people do? Is "normal" what the human body is evolutionarily adapted to? Is "normal" what the government recommends (which, by the way, isn't "just read this". It's a 144-page PDF)? Low-fat, high-carb? Low-carb, high-fat? 33/33/33 carb/fat/protein? Something else?

If it were "common" sense, we wouldn't have so many fat people running (ahem) around. Me being one of them.

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Kriegsspiel
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Re: What Do You Eat for Weight Loss?

Post by Kriegsspiel » Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:18 pm

Gravy Train was compelled to be wrong. Ketosis is not dangerous for normal healthy people. The keto diet wasn't "developed" for use with epileptics, it already existed, and they discovered it helped treat it. Doctors can treat you if you're sick, but don't necessarily know jack shit about diets.

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BRUTE
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Re: What Do You Eat for Weight Loss?

Post by BRUTE » Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:47 pm

fwiw, brute has been in ketosis for about 3 years straight now - still not dead. but it has shown brute that while a ketogenic can be helpful for fat loss, it is not sufficient as the only factor.

overall, brute believes that diet and exercise are overrated in their roles for fat loss. they are probably only the limiting factor in about 25-50% of humans struggling with body composition. this is why diets/exercise never work for all humans - not all humans are suffering from the same problems.

"normal diet" and "moderate exercise" work unless they don't, which makes them useless advice for most humans that actually have problems losing fat.

body composition is almost purely hormone driven. hormones are influenced by many things, including: diet, exercise, sleep, stress, environment, sunlight, and probably more. thus, all of these can be important factors in body composition, but none of them are necessarily the problem an individual human has to address to improve body composition.

"it depends" is the unfortunate answer.

Gravy Train
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Re: What Do You Eat for Weight Loss?

Post by Gravy Train » Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:50 am

Kriegsspiel wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:18 pm
Gravy Train was compelled to be wrong.
That's just, like, your opinion, man. ;)

Okay, I concede I don't know all of the science behind the ketogenic diet. I had clients die from ketoacidosis (and yeah, they were Type 1, you're right ajcoleman), so the fact that people are purposefully following a diet that increases their ketone level is disturbing to me.

But, I guess the dangers of following a high fat diet primarily based on meat and cheese are not readily discernible and have not been properly researched. I mean, just look at America's MidWest. They're all super healthy.

suomalainen
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Re: What Do You Eat for Weight Loss?

Post by suomalainen » Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:04 pm

Just cuz they produce it, don't mean they eat it. Plus, they also make corn (and therefore corn chip and high fructose corn syrup), but I don't see you throwing shade corn's way.

Gravy Train
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Re: What Do You Eat for Weight Loss?

Post by Gravy Train » Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:39 pm

My whole family is from the MidWest. :) Growing up we ate a lot of meat and cheese. I got no shade for any particular food (especially not corn!), just shade for fad Dr. Oz diets.

My truck-driving uncles basically ate the Keto diet their whole lives. They're in early graves d/t MIs. Purely anecdotal evidence against the diet, but hey.

prognastat
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Re: What Do You Eat for Weight Loss?

Post by prognastat » Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:49 pm

I'm sure they also avoided potatoes, rice, bread, pasta, soda, fruit juices and high carb vegetables.

Also truck driving generally tends not to be the healthiest lifestyle itself...

Gravy Train
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Re: What Do You Eat for Weight Loss?

Post by Gravy Train » Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:58 pm

I did say basically.

I realize I'm on the losing end of this argument, but if you step back and think about it rationally, does it really make sense when someone tells you to consume fewer fruits and vegetables and eat more fat?

suomalainen
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Re: What Do You Eat for Weight Loss?

Post by suomalainen » Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:34 pm

Yes.

Even moreso when that someone is a person who has done studies and has facts to back up the assertions. At least more than an anonymous stranger (danger!) who invokes her uncles. :lol:

prognastat
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Re: What Do You Eat for Weight Loss?

Post by prognastat » Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:39 pm

Actually most advocates for keto will be advocating for more vegetables, but to be more discerning with your vegetables.

You cut out carb heavy foods and replace them with extra vegetables and meat/cheese/nuts. For vegetables you focus on vegetables low on net carbs(carbs-fiber)

Not trying to be combative, but multiple of your comments have shown a lack of knowledge on what keto actually means for those following the diet.

If you are still eating lots of carbs with your meat/cheese you aren't "basically" eating a keto diet.

Gravy Train
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Re: What Do You Eat for Weight Loss?

Post by Gravy Train » Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:52 pm

Y'all are right. I should know better than to yuck someone's yum. I apologize.

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BRUTE
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Re: What Do You Eat for Weight Loss?

Post by BRUTE » Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:11 am

Gravy Train wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:50 am
the fact that people are purposefully following a diet that increases their ketone level is disturbing to me.
humans also die from hyperglycemia all the time. yet many humans follow a diet that increases their blood glucose levels.

AsaCul
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Re: What Do You Eat for Weight Loss?

Post by AsaCul » Sat Nov 17, 2018 5:47 am

Kriegsspiel wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:18 pm
Gravy Train was compelled to be wrong. Ketosis is not dangerous for normal healthy people. The keto diet wasn't "developed" for use with epileptics, it already existed, and they discovered it helped treat it. Doctors can treat you if you're sick, but don't necessarily know jack shit about diets.
100% this. Doctors don't know everything about everything and people forget that. I'm not saying don't listen to your doctor, obviously, everyone should. But also do your own research and read recent studies. "Old" beliefs get disproven all the time nowadays, yet people (and even doctors) still stick with them.

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BRUTE
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Re: What Do You Eat for Weight Loss?

Post by BRUTE » Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:43 pm

AsaCul wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 5:47 am
I'm not saying don't listen to your doctor, obviously, everyone should.
Doctor: "Total cholesterol >200 is very dangerous and I will put you on statins".

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Lemur
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Re: What Do You Eat for Weight Loss?

Post by Lemur » Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:13 pm

I think we could all agree that eating less calories than your body requires results in weight loss? That is easy. What is difficult is what is lost. Muscle? Fat? Bones? Organ? Water? Tissue? It is probably some combination of all of these things; however, the ratios of what is loss is heavily dependent on many factors and genetics....

What has worked for me:
  • Higher levels of protein
  • A limit on carbohydrates (100g)
  • Refraining from added sugar (hard limit at 10grams) ; this includes fruit but I limit fruit to only one or two pieces.
  • Healthy fats? I try to stick to coconut oil, olive oil, etc.

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BRUTE
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Re: What Do You Eat for Weight Loss?

Post by BRUTE » Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:34 am

Lemur wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:13 pm
I think we could all agree that eating less calories than your body requires results in weight loss?
debatable if this is even a valid statement.

[edit]

brute will elaborate. brute believes the statement above is akin to saying the following:
if brute increases his velocity by 1mph every minute, eventually, brute will be going 9999999999999mph.

true statement?

yea, but..

the human body has a regulating system. calories out is roughly average calories in over the last 3 days plus a few modifiers. thus while the statement sounds right, it is actually impossible to continuously sustain many/most calorie deficits.

this is how brute was able to eat ~800kcal/day for 1 month straight without losing any weight, or eat ~4000kcal/day for 1 month without gaining weight. his body was adjusting his calorie output to his calorie intake. there are of course limits to this, the body cannot run on 0 calories. thus during a complete fast, the body has to burn something. but calories out will still be reduced drastically, resulting in lowered immune system function, body temperature, physical and mental energy levels, ability to concentrate, and emotional stability.

this is why calorie reducing diets rarely work. the body simply adjusts to the reduced calories.

in brute's opinion what really drives all this is hormones. it's about fixing the broken engine, not putting less fuel in the tank.

LiquidSapphire
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Re: What Do You Eat for Weight Loss?

Post by LiquidSapphire » Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:18 am

These 5 habits are statistically proven for good health:

1) Don't drink, but if you do, limit your intake.
2) Don't smoke. If you do, stop.
3) Weigh a normal weight. This means a normal BMI for 99% of people unless you're really heavily muscle bound. FYI, most people think they have more muscle than they actually have, and less fat than they actually have.
4) Eat 5 servings of fruit/veg per day. Servings are usually pretty small compared to what most Americans consider a serving, so this isn't as hard as you might think.
5) Exercise at least 30 minutes, 5x/wk. This is a minimum recommendation.

I've lost 100 lbs in the past, kept 90 of it off, chasing the last 10 right now. I have tried a million things and seen a million other things work for other people, and not work for me. The best advice I can give is just keep trying things until you find something that works for you, and don't quit.

For me I am noticing best results when I:
Do the above and also
avoid sugar/flour and artificial sweeteners
drink lots of water, avoid caloric beverages unless they are the meal (protein shakes)
maintain a calorie deficit
eat a substantial amount of protein each day, and limit my fat intake
have rabid control over my environment; I do not keep unhealthy foods in my house, period, full stop, in any quantity. I plan ahead for situations where I am out of this environment. 90% of my willpower stores go to these situations.
I pack almost all of my meals or make them myself
I eat a lot of vegan foods, I do not eat meat or eggs, now and then I will eat dairy but I am trying to make it rare. I mainly do this for ethical reasons but there are nice weight loss benefits.
I prefer at least 4 meals per day when I'm limiting food quantity; if I'm too hungry too often, it's really challenging on my psyche.
Automate as much as you can. Have a 'formula' for 'how I eat' - make the decisions in advance as much as possible.
I weigh most things so I'm honest with myself about quantities.
This just an n=1, what worked for me. You have to find what works for you. It's really about finding a lifestyle you can stick with for the rest of your life and that makes your brain happy. I find sugar addictive, so I have to be really careful around it. Different foods impact different people different ways. So slowly piece together a lifestyle that you can live with, and you'll eventually get there.

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Lemur
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Re: What Do You Eat for Weight Loss?

Post by Lemur » Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:38 pm

BRUTE wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:34 am
debatable if this is even a valid statement.

[edit]

brute will elaborate. brute believes the statement above is akin to saying the following:
if brute increases his velocity by 1mph every minute, eventually, brute will be going 9999999999999mph.

true statement?

yea, but..

the human body has a regulating system. calories out is roughly average calories in over the last 3 days plus a few modifiers. thus while the statement sounds right, it is actually impossible to continuously sustain many/most calorie deficits.

this is how brute was able to eat ~800kcal/day for 1 month straight without losing any weight, or eat ~4000kcal/day for 1 month without gaining weight. his body was adjusting his calorie output to his calorie intake. there are of course limits to this, the body cannot run on 0 calories. thus during a complete fast, the body has to burn something. but calories out will still be reduced drastically, resulting in lowered immune system function, body temperature, physical and mental energy levels, ability to concentrate, and emotional stability.

this is why calorie reducing diets rarely work. the body simply adjusts to the reduced calories.

in brute's opinion what really drives all this is hormones. it's about fixing the broken engine, not putting less fuel in the tank.
This is certainly a valid statement and I will have to respectfully disagree that this it not really all that debatable...decades of research support the calories in calories out (CICO) theory.

http://physiqonomics.com/calories/
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 9564900988

99% of scientists agree that climate change (global warming) is a real phenomenon. I relate this to calories in - calories out theory; the vast majority of dietitians will agree that if you burn more energy than you put into your body, you will lose weight (whether that is muscle/fat/etc. and what have you is up to genetics, food composition, among other variables).

How do you explain natural bodybuilders who meticulously track every calorie down to the macro-nutrient and lose fat loss at a steady rate with the goal of also preserving muscle? How do you refute the Minnesota Starvation Study where subjects ate in the realm of 400-600 calories a day and continued to lose weight after 6 month periods? I think its certainly possible Brute was not tracking calories well (and studies show that humans are terrible at this too). The vast majority of people (who are not completely bed-ridden or running a half-marathon daily) would lose weight eating 800kcal a day and gain weight eating 4000kcal a day. There are some very rare and odd deviations where one could hold on to too much water (or have some type of thyroid problem) but this has not been the case in my experience as well as the experience of many others.

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