Investment in Aesthetics

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GandK
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Re: Investment in Aesthetics

Post by GandK » Fri Jul 08, 2016 12:33 pm

Another dismisser here. I guess that's accurate? I don't feel dismissive, although I admit I've never been in a romantic relationship where I didn't feel smothered. And although I'd rate my marriage as very good, I occasionally pray hard for him to go on vacation. Without me. For weeks at a time. And take the kids.

IlliniDave
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Re: Investment in Aesthetics

Post by IlliniDave » Fri Jul 08, 2016 12:44 pm

7Wannabe5 wrote: lol-Gotcha. The midlifer serial dating scene is a tad "distasteful", or maybe something more like "hypocritical." I don't suppose there is much of a polymorous scene in your neck of the woods? I was trying to think of a mental exercise to challenge people's boundaries on this matter.
By distasteful I was thinking more along the lines of prostitution and the world of casual "hookups". The midlifer serial dating scene is just tedious and ineffective.

I don't think there's much more you need to do here to promote the topic of polyamory!

I'm sure there is a polyamory "scene" around here, but I don't see it as any more apt to advance my well-being than midlifer serial dating. It seems even more counter to my M.O. of autonomy.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Investment in Aesthetics

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Fri Jul 08, 2016 1:13 pm

enigmaT120 said: Do I find it easy to depend on my partner? For what? It didn't say.
Probably doesn't specify because different people depend on their partners for many different things in relationship in accordance with their needs, wants, druthers,values, expectations, standards or situation. Could be "not to show up drunk" or "to always convey affection" or "to provide financial support for me and the kids" or "to rock my socks off" etc. etc. etc.

jennypenny said: I can imagine how bad I'd score if I was drowning in the dating pool instead of happily married.
When I was unhappily married, many a moon ago and prior to much reading, therapy, reflection and behavior modification, I would have scored much higher on the anxiety meter. Since I did have some solid bonding experiences in early childhood with my father and my maternal grandmother, I was able to work up from those through my unfortunate adult long-term-relationship with my marital ex and my not-so-well-bonded relationship with my mother. Self-aware self-care is key. If you are feeling anxiety in relationship as an adult, it is often a sign that you are not "mothering" yourself enough and you may need to work on learning some self-comforting behaviors. It can be as simple as performing behaviors for yourself that you believe a good mother would perform. For instance, sometimes when I am feeling a bit anxious in relationship, I very calmly brush my hair and then plait it back into a braid. There is a picture book entitled "I Like Me!" by Nancy Carlson which features a little pig who goes through her day engaged in simple self-care activities which I used to read to my kids. The trick is to not fall over the self-care line of "I do fun things with me. I draw a beautiful picture" to the self-indulgent realm of "I do fun things with me. I snort cocaine." I have a friend who, like me, had a cold distant mother, but also an absentee addicted father, and a sexually-abusive older brother. Her anxiety and abandonment fears were so huge, she could not be physically alone without alcohol, but she could not become emotionally engaged either. She would have fallen right off the edge of that test, but she is doing better now. I'm a big believer in accepting the past and then moving forward with positive behaviors. IOW, not languishing in victimhood or engaging in the sort of rigid bootstrapping that is equivalent to denial. Men in our culture are usually more inclined towards the second.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Investment in Aesthetics

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Fri Jul 08, 2016 1:54 pm

@GandK: Clear and obvious sign that YOU need to take a vacation without him and leave the kids, and likely the cell phone too. Maybe I should put "Start Super Frugal Spa" on my list of 10,321 possible business ideas. Like an only slightly more sophisticated version of what my sisters and I would do on a Saturday night when we were all grounded at the same time and broke. All I need is some Hefty bags,duct tape, a few used exercise bikes, a bag of miscellaneous supplies obtained at estate sale after death of extremely vain woman, cucumbers, coffee and some better speakers with which to blast "Fat-Bottomed Girls" across my vacant lot.

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GandK
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Re: Investment in Aesthetics

Post by GandK » Fri Jul 08, 2016 2:06 pm

7Wannabe5 wrote:Maybe I should put "Start Super Frugal Spa" on my list of 10,321 possible business ideas.
I'm in. Not a fan of blasting speakers, but you had me at "spa." Or maybe at "duct tape."

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Ego
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Re: Investment in Aesthetics

Post by Ego » Fri Jul 08, 2016 2:09 pm

Okay, so I'm dumber than a rock according to @jacob's D&D rating but at least I'm not anxious about being dumber than a rock.... or anything else for that matter. :lol:

According to your questionnaire responses, your attachment-related anxiety score is 1.17, on a scale ranging from 1 (low anxiety) to 7 (high anxiety). Your attachment-related avoidance score is 1.83, on a scale ranging from 1 (low avoidance) to 7 (high avoidance).

7Wannabe5
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Re: Investment in Aesthetics

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Fri Jul 08, 2016 2:18 pm

IlliniDave said: I don't think there's much more you need to do here to promote the topic of polyamory!

I'm sure there is a polyamory "scene" around here, but I don't see it as any more apt to advance my well-being than midlifer serial dating. It seems even more counter to my M.O. of autonomy.
I know. I know. My promotion is likely over-compensation for my own remaining goody-two-shoes concern along the lines of "but, what will the neighbors think?" I am literally concerned about the fact that my literal neighbors, at my rental duplex and my garden-camper, have literally seen me being dropped off and kissed on the porch by my multiple partners. This one young waiter at the best restaurant in my neighborhood is visibly seriously confused about what is going on when he greets me.

I don't think polyamory is counter to autonomy. You just have to figure out where you would best fit into some mix. For simple instance, if you sometimes appreciate older woman, you could be the younger lover of a woman whose husband also has a younger lover. Or you could be the second partner of a bisexual woman who is in a committed relationship with another female. Or you could be the weekend theater and sex romp companion of a woman who only sees her long-term married lover on Tuesday and Thursday. Or all three!!! I know, I know. Too much scheduling hassle etc.

Peanut
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Re: Investment in Aesthetics

Post by Peanut » Fri Jul 08, 2016 3:04 pm

7Wannabe5 wrote:Anyways, back to the original topic of this thread, I think what I was really muddling about on a practical basis was whether or not I am going to reward myself for losing 15 lbs. and thereby getting back into the healthy BMI range, by throwing down for some Botox and/or vein stripping and/or professional coloring/cut and/or mani/pedi/with leg massage, or whether you guys had any better frugal type ideas?

Have not down Botox (yet) but if you like the results go for it! My friend who has done it a couple times says the doctor matters a lot, so focus on finding a good one.
Professional hair cut and especially color tends to turn out way better than the amateur variety, from my observation, so go for it! (But my observation is largely biased by having seen various older relatives with the same horrible home dye jobs done to color gray.)
Conversely, paying for a mani/pedi has never made any sense to me because I CAN do the same job myself. But I do have a friend who claims she is 'polish dyslexic,' so maybe some do lack the motor control to paint their toes?

But my strongest beauty advice would be to get your brows done. If you never have, definitely try it. It's usually inexpensive, from $12-$20, and the effect is subtle but dramatic. Pro tip: a good beautician will wax, pluck, AND trim your brows--all three.

enigmaT120
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Re: Investment in Aesthetics

Post by enigmaT120 » Fri Jul 08, 2016 3:11 pm

Granted, I'm male, but I can't think of anything I would pay for. By vein stripping, do you mean varicose vein removal? I'm seen some pretty ugly scars that were the result of that. The procedure was done 30 years or so ago, maybe more, so hopefully they've gotten a lot better at it.

If what looks I have (sorry, no handy pictures on my Flikr, imagine that!) were making money or any other reward maybe it would be worth while, but I can't think of any advantage I get from them. Or disadvantage, for that matter.

EdithKeeler
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Re: Investment in Aesthetics

Post by EdithKeeler » Fri Jul 08, 2016 9:06 pm

Interesting quiz... My results:
According to your questionnaire responses, your attachment-related anxiety score is 5.50, on a scale ranging from 1 (low anxiety) to 7 (high anxiety). Your attachment-related avoidance score is 3.56, on a scale ranging from 1 (low avoidance) to 7 (high avoidance). ...

Combining your anxiety and avoidance scores, you fall into the preoccupied region of the space. Previous research on attachment styles indicates that preoccupied people tend to have highly conflictual relationships. Although they are comfortable expressing their emotions, preoccupied individuals often experience a lot of negative emotions, which can often interfere with their relationships.
Hmm. "Preoccupied" and "highly conflictual relationships." Yeah, this may all probably be true.

Am tempted to send to Mr. On-again-Off-again, but he'd just be annoyed that I sent it and refuse to take it, just on general principles. Yeah. Conflictual.

So I had to look it up. This article from Psychology Today summarizes the "styles"
Preoccupied Attachment (low avoidance, high anxiety): If you are always worried about what others think of you and don't really factor in your thoughts and feelings, this style of attachment most likely fits you. People with a preoccupied attachment style feel a powerful need to be close to others, and they show this by clinging. They need a lot of validation and approval. They are concerned that others don't value them, and they also doubt their own worth in relationships. So, they often worry a lot about their relationships.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/ma ... -your-life

Hard to see that I'm a "clinging" person since my SO lives in another state and I only see him 4x a year or so... but whatever. Interesting to think about, anyway.

EdithKeeler
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Re: Investment in Aesthetics

Post by EdithKeeler » Fri Jul 08, 2016 9:11 pm

Anyways, back to the original topic of this thread, I think what I was really muddling about on a practical basis was whether or not I am going to reward myself for losing 15 lbs. and thereby getting back into the healthy BMI range, by throwing down for some Botox and/or vein stripping and/or professional coloring/cut and/or mani/pedi/with leg massage, or whether you guys had any better frugal type ideas?
Money spent on a full-body, hour-long professional massage is NEVER wasted. (cheaper at a massage school, if money's an issue). I always reward myself with massages: Did well at work: massage. Was on time for work every day for a week: massage. Thought about cleaning the house: massage.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Investment in Aesthetics

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Fri Jul 08, 2016 9:15 pm

@Peanut: Good suggestion on the brows. I decided to search for how one of my style icons used to do her brows and came across this:

Image

Yup, polyamory is basically the set fate of the curvy female of Eastern European heritage. Now I'm thinking that all I need to do is buy a decent brow pencil, a box of super-ultra-platinum hair color, and some hot pink capri pants. Then I will NEVER be mistaken for a well-maintained woman from the affluent suburbs, but I will still get what I want.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Investment in Aesthetics

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Fri Jul 08, 2016 9:37 pm

@EdithKeeler: Good suggestion, but I already have somebody on call for massage. You could still be the "clingy" partner even if you only see him 4x year. I would eventually become completely distracted and forget about a man under those circumstances. So, it might just be that you are continually paying attention to the relationship. I would let that one go if I were you. Bajillion other fish in the sea, and many of them are mighty tasty.

EdithKeeler
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Re: Investment in Aesthetics

Post by EdithKeeler » Fri Jul 08, 2016 9:44 pm

o, it might just be that you are continually paying attention to the relationship. I would let that one go if I were you. Bajillion other fish in the sea, and many of them are mighty tasty.
You may be right.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Investment in Aesthetics

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Sat Jul 09, 2016 7:22 am

@EdithKeeler: Sorry to be so nosy in your business, but you remind me so much of my daughter. She ran the lemonade stand at her nursery school when she was 3, and is already on her third promotion at her first employer 3 years out of college. She is such an old soul, her favorite TV show when she was 5 was "Murder She Wrote." The two of you must have the exact same MBTI score. Unfortunately, she also has a rather silly mother and a not-always-gainfully employed brother. So, I want you to end up with the adult equivalent of the sturdy little boy with puppy dog eyes who arrived at my back kitchen door every afternoon for a week to bring my 6 year old daughter her homework (which she would never, ever neglect herself), and inquire about the state of her health. You need to be with somebody who will always make sure you have a birthday cake, so your silly old mother can fall over into her final compost heap with no remaining worries. I'm thinking XNFP. Like maybe he works as a counselor and basketball coach at a community center, and he has converted his old wooden garage into a lovely pottery studio. On your first date, he will bring you some violets in a small vase he fashioned. Some ambitious, self-involved, doesn't-sleep-in-the-same-bed-as-you type. No. No. No.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Investment in Aesthetics

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Sat Jul 09, 2016 9:17 am

Ego said: Okay, so I'm dumber than a rock
That's okay. Mrs. Ego's got that ground covered. You just need to be the rock ;)

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fiby41
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Re: Investment in Aesthetics

Post by fiby41 » Sat Jul 09, 2016 11:41 am

I was playing hide-and-seek + peek-a-boo with my cousins when I bumped into a sharp object in the bone area behind my eyebrow when I was small. The healed wound left a scar where, in one of my eyebrow it splits into two and joins back at the end. After some time of getting hang of using a trimmer, I cut out the lower end of the split eyebrow so now both eyebrows look mostly the same.

That is as far as I am going/only thing I've done to look aesthetically pleasing.

EdithKeeler
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Re: Investment in Aesthetics

Post by EdithKeeler » Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:51 pm

Like maybe he works as a counselor and basketball coach at a community center, and he has converted his old wooden garage into a lovely pottery studio. On your first date, he will bring you some violets in a small vase he fashioned. Some ambitious, self-involved, doesn't-sleep-in-the-same-bed-as-you type. No. No. No.
I'll start looking! ;)

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Riggerjack
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Re: Investment in Aesthetics

Post by Riggerjack » Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:34 am

According to your questionnaire responses, your attachment-related anxiety score is 1.50, on a scale ranging from 1 (low anxiety) to 7 (high anxiety). Your attachment-related avoidance score is 1.83, on a scale ranging from 1 (low avoidance) to 7 (high avoidance).


Once again, far from balanced. I expect my results would be different in previous relationships.

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Ego
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Re: Investment in Aesthetics

Post by Ego » Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:56 am

Yes, It's Your Parents Fault....
http://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/07/opini ... fault.html

“If you’re securely attached, that’s great, because you have the expectation that if you are distressed you will be able to turn to someone for help and feel you can be there for others,” said Miriam Steele, the co-director of the Center for Attachment Research at the New School for Social Research in New York.

It’s not so great if you are one of the 40 percent to 50 percent of babies who, a meta-analysis of research indicates, are insecurely attached because their early experiences were suboptimal (their caregivers were distracted, overbearing, dismissive, unreliable, absent or perhaps threatening). “Then you have to earn your security,” Dr. Steele said, by later forming secure attachments that help you override your flawed internal working model.

Given that the divorce rate is also 40 percent to 50 percent, it would seem that this is not an easy task. Indeed, researchers said, people who have insecure attachment models tend to be drawn to those who fit their expectations, even if they are treated badly.


In the article they provide a link to that attachment test...
http://www.web-research-design.net/cgi-bin/crq/crq.pl

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Olaz
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Re: Investment in Aesthetics

Post by Olaz » Sun Jan 08, 2017 11:22 am

:P I actually like your system of providing endearing nicknames, that is a lot more human than the oft misunderstood "secondary partner", "polyamour", and "primary partner" label sets. Maybe I'll adapt my system.

For now, I've still been using something like this as a guideline to organize friend and romantic love and succesfully explain it to other people:

1. Strangers
2. Acquaintences (includes "hook-ups")
3. Friends
4. Close Friends
5. Affectionate Close friends (a.k.a SPs)
6. Primary Partner(s)
7. Life Partner(s)

I find affectionate close friend is a lot easier to understand than polyamour, and the person doesn't feel like they need to identify as poly to use it. Also, none of the labels are meant to be hierarchal nor prescribe a strict norm set; they're meant to get a conversation on what is wanted started. I do wonder if I can make the labels clearer so as to not have to explain what they mean if used in passing.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Investment in Aesthetics

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:42 pm

@Ego: Interesting. It has been my experience that being in relationship with somebody with dysfunctional attachment can eventually drive you there too. My ex has a smothering mother who is also quite thin-skinned in her emotional reactivity (I actually liked her as a mother-in-law/friend.)After umpteen years of marriage, I finally had this moment of clarity in which I realized he was subconsciously trying to get me to behave like her. We probably would have divorced much sooner if I wasn't rather bouncy-up in temperament and well-bonded with my own father. An interesting note is that it was eventually revealed that the likely reason why my ex-MIL was so smothering as a mother was that she had an affair with a black man who attended her college on scholarship in the late 1950s, and was forced to give up the child she conceived for adoption.

OTOH, I think attachment theory has limited applicability to failure of egalitarian adult pair-bond relationships and/or the cultural/economic institution of marriage. IOW, affectionate love isn't the only glue that holds marriages together, and lack or difficulties with it is not the only thing that pulls marriages apart. For not so common instance, I dated a man whose wife had left him to become a Buddhist nun.

@Olaz: Unfortunately your guidelines would work only very imperfectly to describe my current state of affairs. The partner whom I refer to as my BF (because we spend a great deal of time together engaging in activities that match that role and are currently de facto or default monogamous) is still in love with an ex. The partner who is still in love with me is currently in polyamorous marital therapy with his wife in the hopes that he can reconcile her to his desire to have a continuing relationship with me. The partner with whom I was previously engaged mostly on the level of lust remains highly engaged with me on my major ongoing perma-culture project. So, I really don't know which one I would refer to as my primary partner because I would have to make a different call on the basis of simple proximity vs. romantic attachment vs. shared-equity-future-plans. I was in a bit of an out-of-sorts muddle about this recently, and actually made first move towards ending things with BF in order to clean slate, but now I am feeling a bit more philosophical and cheerful, because I am definitely net-benefiting from each of these relationships, so maybe I don't really need to fix the situation.

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