Marijuana & Health

[steveo73]

Does anyone on here smoke ? I used to smoke a tonne and I'm thinking of doing it again because it appears to be coming much more acceptable.

One thing I'm concerned about is the health impacts. For instance is vaporising better for you ? Is it okay to eat it ?

[Dragline]

Smoking is smoking. Bad for your lungs. The popular thing in Colorado now is edibles, usually in the form of small candies.

In the 90s I had a case involving defending someone on medical necessity grounds -- he had AIDS and used it to stem nausea from all the drugs. This was when everyone was dying of it. He had to smoke, because eating was problematic and smoking gets it in you quicker.

Anyway, I had to get experts to testify so I learned a lot. What I learned is that its a very powerful drug that does alter the brain and encourages appetite. But its not any more dangerous than alcohol, and maybe less so. So consume in moderation, and preferably in an edible form.

[7Wannabe5]

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 8X06000093

Pot chills out Type 1 anxiety and rage and enhances sensuality in the moment, but long-term moderate to heavy use has significant effect on libido and function in males. I am naturally super dopey, so I rarely touch it. Takes me from my everyday level of "somebody likely to walk into a wall" to "somebody likely to have no recollection of how she spent the last two hours of her life."

[Ego]

I enjoy exploring reality as it is. There are times, like the one Dragline mentioned above, where an altered reality makes life livable. In general, though, people use drugs and alcohol to alter their PERCEPTION of reality. Often by distorting or tinkering with their perception of reality they blind themselves to the ways they might actually change or influence it.

Pain and stress have a purpose. There are times when pain is so extreme that it becomes wise to minimize it. A major life stressor can strike so suddenly and drastically that it is wise to dull it. In general, though, chronic low level stress or pain is a message. It is your body or mind using its millions of years of evolved wisdom to tell you something important. Dull the signal at your own peril.

[Sclass]

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 8X06000093

Pot chills out Type 1 anxiety "

Pot was my anxiety miracle drug as a student. Unfortunately like many drugs it didn't cure the real problem which was lack of control over my life. I really have never found another silver bullet for my anxiety like pot. Unfortunately it made me so lazy it endangered my long term success. So I quit.

I noticed in Silicon Valley long term pot use is widespread. Many of my friends smoke daily and maintain tech careers. These guys have smoked since they were thirteen and haven't developed any chronic illnesses. "Kronic Illin" The problem I see with these guys is they are brilliant minds (why I was stuck working with them) with low motivation levels. It cancelled out any shot at greatness. They survive as average guys. It was a shame because some are truly brilliant but they handicap themselves with drugs. I guess mediocrity beats anxiety, depression and suicide.

My observation is that they physically look different after long term (fifty years) use. Anyone else notice this? I mean it's subtleties in their countenance. Specifically the texture of the skin on the face. It has a kind of leatheryness that says "pothead" to me. All the long term users I know have it and I've fingered a lot of other users I casually met by just identifying "the look". Not the grateful dead shirt but the skin on the face. Tobacco smoking creates a totally different look that is easy to pick out. It's hard to put this "look" into words.

My naive guess is that altering your biochemistry this much will change your appearance.

[Sclass]

. Often by distorting or tinkering with their perception of reality they blind themselves to the ways they might actually change or influence it.

Excellent. So well said.

This is precisely why I gave up on pot. The screaming voice in my mind kept me advancing. While it was painful to live with, shutting it down would have been worse.

My most successful anxiety tool is financial independence.

[BRUTE]

I enjoy exploring reality as it is.

brute isn't particularly against reality, but does not find it more interesting in general than alternatives. what has reality ever done for Ego to deserve this exclusive arrangement?

brute can only assume that humans who completely denounce all psychoactive substances have either not tried any, or had a terrible trip.

[7Wannabe5]

The thing to remember is that anxiety serves little purpose if you are not actually in a situation in which it might likely be physically dangerous if you went to sleep. As long as you have water and it is safe for you to sleep, then it's not good for you to allow yourself to fret. Just say "Shhh, shhh, shhh..little monkey" to yourself, and snuggle into whatever shelter you have, slow down your breathing, slow down your heart rate, relax your muscles, it's okay, it's okay, the sun will come up tomorrow and you are safe for now in your little warm burrow.

[Ego]

brute isn't particularly against reality, but does not find it more interesting in general than alternatives. what has reality ever done for Ego to deserve this exclusive arrangement?

You used the word "interesting". There are things more important that "interesting".

Exploring the nature of reality is important because the alternative is to explore delusions. Making the choice to see reality reflected through a funhouse mirror can be fabulously unhealthy in every sense of the word.

The thing to remember is that anxiety serves little purpose if you are not actually in a situation in which it might likely be physically dangerous if you went to sleep. As long as you have water and it is safe for you to sleep, then it's not good for you to allow yourself to fret. Just say "Shhh, shhh, shhh..little monkey" to yourself, and snuggle into whatever shelter you have, slow down your breathing, slow down your heart rate, relax your muscles, it's okay, it's okay, the sun will come up tomorrow and you are safe for now in your little warm burrow.

Exactly. Learning to deal with anxiety is a skill and a strength. That's why CBT works. Drug anxiety and you lose the skill and weaken the strength required to deal with it.

[jennypenny]

My most successful anxiety tool is financial independence.

+1

I've tried everything (legal and illegal) to quell my anxiety. Being prepped--financially and otherwise--has been the best and most productive way to deal with it.

[steveo73]

I'm not worried about anxiety. I just like to get a little wasted at times. I drink alcohol in moderation but that is a strong drug.

I am actually thinking about using marijuana when I become FI rather than right now.

[Ego]

I'm not worried about anxiety. I just like to get a little wasted at times. I drink alcohol in moderation but that is a strong drug.

What is it, specifically, that you like about getting a little wasted? Not that you have to answer. Just that it may be interesting to apply curiosity to why.

viewtopic.php?t=7371&start=25#p110025

[Spartan_Warrior]

The science surrounding cannabis seems inconclusive at best due to its legal status, which prevents more legitimate, non-biased studies being done on actual humans. I can't read the full article @7Wannabe5 posted, but from what I can tell from the abstract, the experiment consisted of blasting in-vitro (e.g. in a test tube) "immature uterine cells" of a female rat with "marijuana smoke condensate" (whatever that is) which stimulated estrogenicity. Meanwhile the actual cannabinoid compounds by themselves, THC, CBD, and CBN--which is what actually circulates in the blood after use--did not have this effect. Human males ingesting cannabis don't regularly do so by blasting their rodent uterine epithelial cells with smoke concentrate, so I find the conclusion that cannabis is estrogenic in human males to be a bit of a stretch. Most studies are little better.

My anecdotal evidence suggests that the stereotypes and science regarding libido/fertility, motivation, drive, cognition/thinking velocity, etc, are either overblown or outright false (intentionally or otherwise) when it comes to otherwise healthy post-adolescents engaging in ordinary, moderate use. I don't believe an occasional smoke is any worse for you than the occasional drink. Actually, I am of the opinion that cannabis, dose for dose, is less physically deleterious than alcohol (or cigarettes for that matter, or pretty much any other recreational drug I can think of except maybe LSD), especially when the effects of cannabis itself are separated from the obviously harmful effects of smoking plant matter. Bonus, as I believe Mr. Money Mustache has pointed out, the effective dose of cannabis will generally be less expensive than that of alcohol. I would be more concerned with any legality/employment/etc issues than health issues, but as you say, social trends may one day obviate those risks.

[Sclass]

My most successful anxiety tool is financial independence.

+1

I've tried everything (legal and illegal) to quell my anxiety. Being prepped--financially and otherwise--has been the best and most productive way to deal with it.

There is nothing like being in a position of FU (see The Gambler thread) for narcotic free anxiety relief. I never had this when I was young and worse, growing and smoking pot sent me down a road where I was even more financially vulnerable.

From an ERE perspective killing my anxiety by smoking out was like dealing with status anxiety by shopping for luxury goods. It makes me feel better but it takes me further away from the place I want to be.

The more serious I got about life the more I felt I had to ditch the weed habit. I was making big decisions at work and on my investments at the time and clouding my judgement wasn't cutting it. I needed to be sharp.

My pot smoking/growing days had some commonality with the ERE lifestyle. I lived on a shoestring. I didn't care about materialism. I didn't care about my social status. I lived simply and I didn't have to play any mental games with myself to live a spartan existence. The drug did all this for me. I was happy to be a broke student as long as I had a joint a day. I even attracted a girlfriend who also smoked. Bliss. I miss her. We were very happy being underachievers. Low expectations all around. I guess that's where the commonality ends.

Steve brings up a great point. I thought twice when I read the LA times headline this weekend about CA getting closer to legalizing. I don't work anymore so why not let my guard down and pick up my long lost habit? Those photos on the front page looked inviting.

I am not done yet. I still need to stay sharp.

[steveo73]

I'm not worried about anxiety. I just like to get a little wasted at times. I drink alcohol in moderation but that is a strong drug.

What is it, specifically, that you like about getting a little wasted? Not that you have to answer. Just that it may be interesting to apply curiosity to why.

viewtopic.php?t=7371&start=25#p110025

It's an interesting question and one that I really don't have a clearly defined answer. I'm going to avoid the question but not because I am scared of answering. It's just that I am not really sure why I do it. I'll think about it and if I remember I'll post a response.

In stating that I read a book on happiness a while back and one of the points that the author/s made was that people have in various different cultures and throughout time had moments of drug induced experiences. Their point was that in the right way mood altering drugs may help contribute to happiness and possibly self-awareness.

[steveo73]

My pot smoking/growing days had some commonality with the ERE lifestyle. I lived on a shoestring. I didn't care about materialism. I didn't care about my social status. I lived simply and I didn't have to play any mental games with myself to live a spartan existence. The drug did all this for me. I was happy to be a broke student as long as I had a joint a day. I even attracted a girlfriend who also smoked. Bliss. I miss her. We were very happy being underachievers. Low expectations all around. I guess that's where the commonality ends.

I used to surf and play basketball and smoke pot. Life was great. It's not like I was getting whacked and sitting down doing nothing. Unlike alcohol I also think pot is a nice quiet drug.

[FBeyer]

...I used to surf and play basketball and smoke pot. Life was great...

It sure sounds like it!

[steveo73]

...I used to surf and play basketball and smoke pot. Life was great...

It sure sounds like it!

The funny thing is now I do jiu-jitsu and I don't smoke but heaps of the guys do. That is what has made me think about it again. I don't know how they do it though. You are trying to choke or put them in some sort of a leg or arm lock.

Truthfully I'm also thinking about doing it more when I FIRE rather than right now. I figure when I retire it'd be nice to sit back and have a little puff although now it'd probably be a brownie or a vape of something. Times change.

[Ego]

In stating that I read a book on happiness a while back and one of the points that the author/s made was that people have in various different cultures and throughout time had moments of drug induced experiences. Their point was that in the right way mood altering drugs may help contribute to happiness and possibly self-awareness.

One of the greatest things about FI is that it frees up the time and energy to pursue what Maslow called peak experiences.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_experience

Some believe that certain drugs/alcohol can create euphoric states that put peak experiences "on tap". But these euphoric states are only really interesting to others in the same intoxicated state.

Others have argued that intoxicants can inhibit or dampen the normal functioning of the brain (because that's what intoxicants do!) in such a way that the "filters of perception" or culturally induced barriers are removed. LSD proponents from the sixties talked about the mind naturally knowing everything and just needing the valve opened with drugs. Magical thinking.

We've since learned a lot about how the brain works. It brings to mind the difference between those who slowly, over time, earn the funds to retire early versus those who somehow inherit or win the funds. In the same way that we can, over a relatively long period, save the money to buy ourselves freedom while simultaneously learning the skills and cultivating the habits that allow us to live fulfilling lives on very little, we can slowly, methodically rewire the brain, learn the skills and curate the habits needed to induce natural peak experiences. Those who inherited wealth never learned the skills. They never went through the process of slowly rewiring their habits, lifestyle and daily routine to their new reality. So they blow the wealth on hookers and drugs.

Slowly, over time, we can rewire our brains, curate the habits and learn the skills to induce peak experiences. But the wiring has to be laid correctly. Bad habits have to be unlearned and/or replaced with good ones. Skills have to be learned. There is no shortcut to laying down the neural cables.

[Dragline]

+1

BTW, experimenting with psychedelics appears to have become a fad again with some of the Silicon Valley crowd in the past five years or so, mixing it with meditation or some forms of modern or pseudo shamanism. "Drink your bullet proof coffee in the morning and go on a vision quest in the afternoon!" "Sam Harris is the new Timothy Leary!"