Marijuana & Health

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steveo73
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Re: Marijuana & Health

Post by steveo73 »

Spartan_Warrior wrote: Caffeine is a mind and body-altering drug that, when used too much, can cause serious adverse effects. In fact, it's possible to overdose and DIE from caffeine. http://www.caffeineinformer.com/harmful ... f-caffeine
Maybe but I drink coffee regularly and it doesn't really affect me much. I can't imagine taking enough to overdose and die.
Spartan_Warrior wrote:However, the end result of any smoke inhalation will definitely be some amount of lung damage which could over time translate to cancer. The smoke in cannabis contains a similar range of carcinogens to burning tobacco or other burning plant matter. THC and other cannabinoids themselves are thought to be anti-carcinogenic, but again, most of the science here is IMO questionable (I didn't look at this study closely, but it looks like they did find effects in actual human tumors): http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/279571.php
Cancer is my concern.
Spartan_Warrior wrote:Personally, from the research I've seen (and haven't seen), I wouldn't be any more afraid of estrogenic effects from cannabis than from eating too many lentils and beans. Which is to say, not very.
Agreed. I find these types of comments regarding marijuana or lots of things pretty funny.

steveo73
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Re: Marijuana & Health

Post by steveo73 »

Slevin wrote:
steveo73 wrote: Thanks for this info. I've never been able to access this. I was though thinking of eating a little and vaporizing a little once I reach FI or maybe a little before that.
There have been several studies recently questioning the healthiness of vaping. IIRC the preliminary results showed it may have more detrimental effects than just smoking itself.
This is interesting and what I'd like to see. I don't want to put myself at a higher risk of getting cancer.

steveo73
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Re: Marijuana & Health

Post by steveo73 »

Thanks for all the comments on this thread as well. It's an interesting topic to me.

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jennypenny
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Re: Marijuana & Health

Post by jennypenny »

After reading this, I wonder if part of the reason (or the main reason) I liked pot was that I liked smoking it. I used to smoke cigarettes and still do occasionally. I love smoking. Maybe I wouldn't even enjoy marijuana in edible form? It's the same reason I prefer alcohol -- I don't just like being drunk but getting drunk.

And doesn't that make me sound like a winner lol. Stand back boys, I'm taken. :lol:

Dragline
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Re: Marijuana & Health

Post by Dragline »

jennypenny wrote:After reading this, I wonder if part of the reason (or the main reason) I liked pot was that I liked smoking it. I used to smoke cigarettes and still do occasionally. I love smoking. Maybe I wouldn't even enjoy marijuana in edible form? It's the same reason I prefer alcohol -- I don't just like being drunk but getting drunk.

And doesn't that make me sound like a winner lol. Stand back boys, I'm taken. :lol:
Just getting warmed up for St. Paddy's Day tomorrow, are we? :lol:

steveo73
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Re: Marijuana & Health

Post by steveo73 »

jennypenny wrote:After reading this, I wonder if part of the reason (or the main reason) I liked pot was that I liked smoking it. I used to smoke cigarettes and still do occasionally. I love smoking. Maybe I wouldn't even enjoy marijuana in edible form? It's the same reason I prefer alcohol -- I don't just like being drunk but getting drunk.

And doesn't that make me sound like a winner lol. Stand back boys, I'm taken. :lol:
I was just about to ask.

I've never eaten marijuana. I wonder if I'd like it in that format.

enigmaT120
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Re: Marijuana & Health

Post by enigmaT120 »

Count it toward your salad quota in your diet.

I tried smoking some a few years ago, to celebrate with a friend the recent legalization in WA, only to discover that after a 20 year hiatus, I still didn't like it. Oh well, it's not like I don't have enough ways to mess up my life.

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Sclass
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Re: Marijuana & Health

Post by Sclass »

From LA times today.

Longtime marijuana use might make you a loser - LA Times - www.latimes.com http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol- ... story.html

Biased but it captures my personal experiences with regular pot use.

Thought y'all would like it because it mentions financial issues.

Spartan_Warrior
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Re: Marijuana & Health

Post by Spartan_Warrior »

Everyone has their anecdotes. Some of us even get to publish them in L.A. Times. :lol: Whatever science that article purports to represent appears to have been artfully blurred with opinion and then left unreferenced.

I don't think anyone is arguing that becoming reliant on a substance (which I would argue you are if you're using it daily over the long-term) is beneficial. The ERE model in particular would suggest being reliant on as few necessities as possible. Addiction and its long-term outcomes are certainly inefficient. It's also a strawman position in this topic, though. No one is asking, "Should I become addicted to this and use it daily for the rest of my life?" (Nor is that a necessary outcome of occasional use, as cannabis is not physically addicting.)

I maintain my positions: that at least a great deal of the fear-mongering surrounding cannabis is the result of good old corporate-sponsored government propaganda, so there is not much reliable science confirming negative impacts; the science that is available lends me to believe that occasional recreational use of cannabis is about the least deleterious method of obtaining a buzz (except maybe caffeine*). Ergo, if buzz is desired--and whether or not altered consciousness is desirable is also not germane--then cannabis is the optimum choice, IMO.

*BTW, @Dragline, my argument with caffeine was not really to say that alcohol and cannabis are in the same league as coffee, but rather that cannabis has about as much in common with coffee as it does with alcohol. Caffeine is also physically addictive where cannabis is not. It really is comparing apples to oranges, which is sort of the point: I object to lumping cannabis in with alcohol as I believe alcohol is far worse. (Notably, you object to lumping caffeine with alcohol for the same reason of severity.) If cannabis to coffee is a forced comparison, it's as forced as cannabis to alcohol.

Also, caffeine overdose is eminently possible with energy drinks and/or pills for small or sensitive people. Granted, perhaps not so much with coffee/espresso and almost certainly not with tea. My GF is extremely sensitive to caffeine and has also experienced overdose.

At the end of the day, you can screw up your life with anything. Long-term daily abuse of sucrose doesn't look pretty after a few decades, either, for that matter.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Marijuana & Health

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

I am officially changing my stance on this issue due to the fact that I have decided that all human beings should maintain one vice or addiction for the purpose of not rendering themselves thoroughly socially obnoxious and unlikable. This is analogous to my belief that people should have one thing they collect even if they are otherwise minimalists or one luxury category even if otherwise extremely frugal. However, I believe that it is important to be thoughtful in making your choice of sole vice/addiction. It is best to reflect upon your own unique physiology and personality and lifestyle and make the choice with the best possible risk/reward potential for you. For instance, I decided to choose coffee over sugary treats because I decided that sleeping overnight with damp tea bags on my face might possibly reduce inflammation while sleeping overnight with frosting on my face would possibly cause inflammation.

Also, the world already has enough people with high testosterone levels and too much ambition, so pot use passes muster on the "What if more people did it?" test in my book.

Spartan_Warrior
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Re: Marijuana & Health

Post by Spartan_Warrior »

7Wannabe5 wrote: Also, the world already has enough people with high testosterone levels and too much ambition, so pot use passes muster on the "What if more people did it?" test in my book.
Are there studies that show a decrease in serum testosterone, either total or available, in humans? This pretty much sums up my understanding of the science and fully encompasses any evidence I've seen posted here: http://www.anabolicmen.com/cannabis-testosterone/

Again, rats and in-vitro cells. Studies with contradictory conclusions. Impacts that are negligible and reversible. Et cetera.

If it's just anecdotes from there, well... like I said, we all have our anecdotes. One of my personal favorites was that time in college when I smoked daily, made the President's List (4.0 GPA) for three consecutive semesters, and was squatting twice my bodyweight at 12% bodyfat.

There are plenty of people with high testosterone and high ambition. Some of them have also smoked weed. Ask Olympic gold medalist Michael Phelps.

BRUTE
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Re: Marijuana & Health

Post by BRUTE »

brute is no doctor, but has heard many times that not eating red meat and animal fats causes decrease in serum testosterone. so arguably vegetarianism is the greater threat to manhood than weed.

Spartan_Warrior:
http://welshcouncil.org.uk/english/dangerlist.html

this list released by the UK government claims indeed that both alcohol and tobacco are more dangerous than cannabis.

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Sclass
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Re: Marijuana & Health

Post by Sclass »

Spartan_Warrior wrote:
7Wannabe5 wrote:
If it's just anecdotes from there, well... like I said, we all have our anecdotes. One of my personal favorites was that time in college when I smoked daily, made the President's List (4.0 GPA) for three consecutive semesters, and was squatting twice my bodyweight at 12% bodyfat.
You're right. This made me realize how ridiculous my small number of anecdotes sound. :oops:

There is a lot of variability out there. My home grown weed had a lot of Indica crossed into it to make it easy to grow under lights. Compared to a good Sativa it's apples and oranges again. It's like using a different drug.

Then there's the variability in personalities.

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Ego
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Re: Marijuana & Health

Post by Ego »

BRUTE wrote:brute is no doctor, but has heard many times that not eating red meat and animal fats causes decrease in serum testosterone. so arguably vegetarianism is the greater threat to manhood than weed.
Nope. The opposite is true. Plant based eaters have higher levels of testosterone yet lower cancer rates because they do a better job of dealing with IGF-1.

https://youtu.be/BqkwPL0mSGw?t=1m24s

It might be wise to question whether meat/eggs/dairy is worse than weed because the dioxins in meat cause a decrease in T. :D

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/how-to-i ... naturally/
Toxic substances called dioxins have been shown to interfere with the male reproductive system, including production of testosterone. While concentrated sources of dioxins include Agent Orange (which I’m sure you’re already avoiding), we obtain most of our dietary dioxins through conventionally-raised animal products, especially animal fats and dairy (dioxins accumulate in fat). If you’re going to be eating fatty cuts of meat or using dairy, try to go for pastured, grass-fed animals to reduce your exposure and lessen the negative impact on your testosterone levels.
But marijuana is pretty bad in this regard too....

http://www.medicaldaily.com/effects-mar ... ity-350864
If the men admitted to taking drugs, they were asked how often on a scale from no use, to once a week, and more than once a week. The researchers then collected the semen samples to measure their sperm counts and concentrations.

The findings revealed about 45 percent of the participants reported smoking pot in the past three months. About 10 percent had used marijuana as well as recreational drugs during this time. Those who admitted to regularly smoking pot had a sperm count that was 29 percent lower than those who reported lighter use or didn’t smoke at all. Meanwhile, men who used other recreational drugs alongside marijuana had sperm counts reduced by 55 percent and sperm concentrations reduced by 52 percent.

BRUTE
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Re: Marijuana & Health

Post by BRUTE »

Ego wrote:Nope. The opposite is true. Plant based eaters have higher levels of testosterone yet lower cancer rates because they do a better job of dealing with IGF-1.
just to also have quoted some website, let brute post this link:
http://skeptics.stackexchange.com/quest ... one-levels

steveo73
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Re: Marijuana & Health

Post by steveo73 »

Spartan_Warrior wrote:there is not much reliable science confirming negative impacts; the science that is available lends me to believe that occasional recreational use of cannabis is about the least deleterious method of obtaining a buzz (except maybe caffeine*).
I think that this is the problem. There really isn't any reliable science or maybe better put from my perspective I don't believe that there is any reliable science. From my experience coffee has less of an effect on you than marijuana but it's a close enough call. I think coffee though has been proven to be healthy for you. Marijuana doesn't have the research on it to confirm to me if it is harmful or non-harmful.

I drink alcohol but it's such a strong drug. I was drunk last weekend. It really hits my body a day or so after the event. I love it but I just don't feel comfortable getting that buzz off it.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Marijuana & Health

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

Spartan Warrior said: If it's just anecdotes from there, well... like I said, we all have our anecdotes. One of my personal favorites was that time in college when I smoked daily, made the President's List (4.0 GPA) for three consecutive semesters, and was squatting twice my bodyweight at 12% bodyfat.
I am well aware of the fact that many people whose natural tendency is towards being VERY ambitious, testosterone-driven, jacked-up, Type 1 etc. are drawn to pot use. I also know that there are bred varieties of marijuana known for having a more brightening, energizing effect like testosterone rather than the opposite. I think that people who have the ENTJ or ESTJ personality types or natural chemical make-up may be well served by choosing pot as their one vice of choice. Definitely these types are better off choosing pot than alcohol. I know men of these types who resumed the use of pot and started supplementing with testosterone as they experienced the effects of aging in order to continue feeling like they used to feel.

I guess the main suggestion I am trying to make in annoying maternal mode is that over the long run you will likely find yourself best served if you do all of the "natural" or behavioral practices you can before you add the "drug." For instance, I am the sort of absent-minded, dopey, languid type who only loses her temper maybe twice a year and I can drink a pot of coffee with little ill effect and only minor gain of edge, but I am better served if I am also engaged in baseline daily practice of regular exercise to increase my vigor and reduction of carbohydrate intake.

Also, although it is true that I have heard repeated anecdotes from variety of female friends over many decades indicative of correlation of pot use with lack of sexual performance, upon reflection I have decided that my anecdote-acquisition may be severely biased by the fact that my female friendship circle over these many decades has primarily consisted of the sort of girl/woman likely to get herself all jacked up on coffee and chocolate and then jump her poor boyfriend who was just trying to get stoned, relax and watch some Star Trek or basketball, and then flounce off in a huff when he says "Babe, you are blocking the screen." YMMV

Spartan_Warrior
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Re: Marijuana & Health

Post by Spartan_Warrior »

Ego wrote: But marijuana is pretty bad in this regard too....

http://www.medicaldaily.com/effects-mar ... ity-350864
If the men admitted to taking drugs, they were asked how often on a scale from no use, to once a week, and more than once a week. The researchers then collected the semen samples to measure their sperm counts and concentrations.

The findings revealed about 45 percent of the participants reported smoking pot in the past three months. About 10 percent had used marijuana as well as recreational drugs during this time. Those who admitted to regularly smoking pot had a sperm count that was 29 percent lower than those who reported lighter use or didn’t smoke at all. Meanwhile, men who used other recreational drugs alongside marijuana had sperm counts reduced by 55 percent and sperm concentrations reduced by 52 percent.
IMO, from what I can tell by the abstract and that article's summary, this was a slightly more valid study (in the sense of measuring what it seeks to measure) than the others posted here, but still flawed as there is no known baseline for either the study or control group to account for other confounding variables and existing differences in the populations. It also does not separate the large confounding variable that is the effect of smoke inhalation itself from the effect of cannabinoids. Inhalation of tobacco smoke has also been shown to decrease sperm count around the order of 20%: (http://yourfertility.org.au/for-men/smoking)

Also, not to keep banging this drum, because it really is a forced comparison, but drinking just one cup of coffee per day has been shown to increase infertility risk in women by 55%: http://andreasschwerte.com/coffee-infer ... pregnancy/ (I can't find the Yale study online, but this references it.)

@BRUTE: That is an interesting list, thanks. I'm not that familiar with ecstasy but I'm surprised to see it below both cannabis and LSD. It says they are factoring in "social harm" so I imagine they are considering how widespread use/abuse is in the UK, as well.

I noticed they pointed out the increased risk of schizophrenia from cannabis use, which is something I don't think has been mentioned in this thread. That's a more legitimate concern IMO than the testosterone stuff. If you have a family history of mental illness, might be best to avoid anything psychoactive.

On the other hand, without digging up the studies myself, I believe cannabis has been shown to reduce the risk for Alzheimer's (IIRC, something to do with increasing the number of connections across the corpus callosum and thickening the myelin sheaths that otherwise deteriorate as the disease progresses).

@Sclass: It's true, there is a lot of variability both in strain potency and individual tolerance. And I should admit that in my experience, I don't seem as sensitive to cannabis as some; many times I was called "one of those functional stoners". :lol:

(I miss the old forum's smoking pimp emoticon right about now.)

steveo73
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Re: Marijuana & Health

Post by steveo73 »

Spartan_Warrior wrote:
Ego wrote:I noticed they pointed out the increased risk of schizophrenia from cannabis use, which is something I don't think has been mentioned in this thread. That's a more legitimate concern IMO than the testosterone stuff. If you have a family history of mental illness, might be best to avoid anything psychoactive.
This is an interesting one and I'm not sold on it. I have a friend who is schizophrenic. He smoked a lot less pot than most of my friends. His drug of choice was alcohol.

I think what happens is that people develop schizophrenia in their early 20's or so and that is also a time when they may experiment with marijuana. It doesn't mean that marijuana has anything at all to do with causing schizophrenia.

Dragline
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Re: Marijuana & Health

Post by Dragline »

I have a sibling that resembles this remark. No, marijuana does not cause schizophrenia, but it does make it a hell of a lot worse.

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