Kettlebells; how to choose

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FBeyer
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Kettlebells; how to choose

Post by FBeyer »

Too long didn't read:
Do the kettlebells posted in the post below look like something worth buying? What are the pitfalls of 'bell purchases?
What is the best book and/or online resource for getting proper form with kettlebell training and how do I make a proper program?
Think Rippetoes Starting Strength for Kettlebells. Keep it simple, keep it effective, keep it short and to the fucking point!


The Post; Long Version:
The basic recommendation for starting out with 'bells is a 16Kg bell for a male.
Now, I haven't got the faintest clue about what a proper bell looks like.
I've been told that the handle should have plenty of space between the body of the bell and the handle as well as a somewhat soft curvature at the ends of the handles.
Given that you can't really wear a 'bell out, I reckon the ones you buy to begin with are probably the ones you hand down to the next generation.
None the less, I'm hesitant to spend a lot of money if I could spend only half, and get an equal lifetime and equal training quality of a fine set of 'bells that might not look as fancy as a more expensive 'bell.

So do these inexpensive 'bells look like a stay-away purchase?
The price is approx. 36$ for a 16Kg bell. If I buy a set of 2*12 and 2*16 bells P&P is 0$. Thus I get four bells for 126.40$ delivered to my door.
http://www.kettlebellshop.dk/billige-ke ... -pris.html

Are there other things I should be wary of?

My initial plan was to start out with sets of 12 and 16 so I can scale from 12 to 16 as well as do two-bell exercises as soon as form permits starting from 2*12.

I've been barbell lifting before, so I'm totally down with form before weight increases; no need to preach about that particular point. Slow gains are the best gains :)


Reading/Visual resources.
I'm looking for a kettlebell reference that is akin to Mark Rippetoe's Starting Strength.
I've had a look at Enter The Kettlebell by Pavel.
I got the preview for the Kindle. It sucks. Bad.

Let me see if I can reproduce his writing style in a way that does it justice:
Russian triple strength... Sergey Mishin- number one... man is strength... here is a list... why Soviet scientists gave two-thumbs-up-using-improper-dash...kettlebells boost pullups...and runnings...and jumping...maybe the list still goes on... I don't know...
CHAPTER 1... which kettlebells should I start with... what is a kettlebell... main benefits of kettlebell training... guidelines-choosing the correct size of kettlebell... goals?
JESUS F******* CHRIST!
Is the whole book like that? How does anyone learn proper technique from that incoherent, ellipses-abusing book? What am I missing? Does the writing style change drastically when we get to the actual instructional part of the book?
As a kicker: Does anyone know if the images in Enter the Kettlebell are well laid out for Kindle, or is it simply the kindle's fate to be absolutely crap at displaying figures, tables, and images?

Thanks a lot for any feedback. The 'net is choc a bloc full of crossfithype and scammers that I really don't trust anyone regarding kettlebell exercise anymore.

jacob
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Re: Kettlebells; how to choose

Post by jacob »

Ten years ago, the two brands you couldn't go wrong with were RKC and Ader. I don't know what the market is like these days but I do know that you can walk into almost any fitness shop and buy OEM stuff for almost metal weight just like dumbbells. The thing to look out for are burrs from bad casting and whether the coating is flaky. I don't think coating matters that much (so what if it has a little surface rust?) and burrs are removable with a file. The actual shape of the handle depends more on personal fit/what you like best. If you want to do competition, then RKC is (or at least was) the only way to go.

16kg is the starting weight for a completely untrained male. 12kg is pathetic---don't even bother. If you can do five pull-ups or ten push-ups or deadlift half your body weight (I know) in good form already you'll quickly outgrow 16kg. You also mention that you've lifted weights. So I'd say start with 24kg. A good starting weight would be around the weight of a dumb bell you can do ten curls with.

Don't get plastic or powder coated ones. You want the smooth/burned coating. I don't know what it's called but it looks like it's painted with enamel. Those in the link look good to me but it's hard to see what kinda of coating they have or if they have burrs.

I notice that both the clubbell and the kettlebell gurus have lowered their recommended starting weights over the years. Perhaps back then only athletes got into it. Now it's widely popular, so maybe it's a drive for the lowest common denominator.

Doubles focus the effort on the core and legs. Singles focus on the arm and shoulder. Do you want a strong core or do you want strong arms? Point being ... it might not be worth it to get doubles ... espcially not if you're already lifting barbells. The exercises that can be done with doubles closely parallel barbell exercises with few exceptions. There are a lot more single exercises.

As for books ... I prefer DVDs.

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Slevin
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Re: Kettlebells; how to choose

Post by Slevin »

I've read most of Pavel's stuff. Nobody ever said he was an incredible writer, because he really isn't. If you want to gain a firm understanding of how to use a kettlebell, Pavel will give it you. But so will others.

The simple answer here is you want to start training with the kettlebell, do the RKC minimum. And not the newfangled silly one. Should be 5:30 minutes of getups, and 11 minutes of swings. If you are a sadist, double all of the intended durations. This is how I made my biggest gains. Make sure to spend a few weeks learning technique, as this is key to not injuring yourself and making proper gains.

On the note for kettlebell weight: you will probably NEVER need more than 1 kettlebell of the same size. And don't buy more than you need. If you are just starting out (i.e. bench is < 200 lbs), get a 16kg kettlebell. Once you can do 15 minutes of intense, sustained getups, up the weight to the 24kg bell, and drop back down to the minimum time. Which kettlebells do I use? This is largely a matter of preference. RKC bells are considered the gold standard. I use a local brand from near where I live. They make beautiful kettlebells for a good price, and I like the people who work there.

Everything you need to know about technique and the lifts can be found on the RKC site or youtube.

FBeyer
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Re: Kettlebells; how to choose

Post by FBeyer »

jacob wrote:...The thing to look out for are burrs from bad casting and whether the coating is flaky. ...
16kg is the starting weight for a completely untrained male. 12kg is pathetic---don't even bother.
...You also mention that you've lifted weights. So I'd say start with 24kg. A good starting weight would be around the weight of a dumb bell you can do ten curls with.
Don't get plastic or powder coated ones....
...it might not be worth it to get doubles ... espcially not if you're already lifting barbells...
I'm not lifting barbells anymore. I haven't done so in 2 years. There is no room for a barbell set where I live, so I have to make do with kettlebells instead.
I'm a fuck-your-biceps-and-do-a-proper-fucking-deadlift-you-vain-weenie kind of person. I don't say it to people's faces, neither of us benefit from it, but I only care about strength, not about showmanship.
I'm much more likely to be doing cleans and farmer walks than curls and lying press.
This is also the reason why I'm opting for two bells: closer resemblance to a lot of the barbell exercises that I'm used to such as back squats, deads, and cleans. Furthermore, I've been told that 2 KB front squats in particular are tough on the core muscles and that people front squat a lot less weight than they think they can.

24 Kg would be more than I could press 10 times right now. I'm certain of it. My old Military Press used to be just shy of 50 Kg so there is no way 24 is appropriate for me.

I really know jack shit about what KBs to purchase, and my total time working with a KB is maybe 3 hours tops.
Slevin wrote:...If you want to gain a firm understanding of how to use a kettlebell, Pavel will give it you. But so will others.

The simple answer here is you want to start training with the kettlebell, do the RKC minimum...
On the note for kettlebell weight: you will probably NEVER need more than 1 kettlebell of the same size...RKC bells are considered the gold standard. I use a local brand from near ... Everything you need to know about technique and the lifts can be found on the RKC site or youtube.
The Minimum looks like a really nasty piece of work. I guess that's where I'll be starting then :)
Also: That is a SEXY looking KB. My janky sense of aesthetics is tingling.


Thanks a lot guys, in spite of everything I guess I'll just have to curb my enthusiasm and get a single 16 Kg KB and get cracking with the Minimum.

jacob
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Re: Kettlebells; how to choose

Post by jacob »

My 24kg rec. was based on doing snatches, swings, and clean&press or push press usually in a density build up, e.g. 20 sets of 5 in twenty minutes. Then 17 sets of 6 in 17 minutes. And so on until I got it down to 10 of 10 in 10 mins. And then continuous. If you start out with continuous big compound stuff instead like getups per Slevin's rec. then definitely go lighter. One 16kg seems like a good idea.

FWIW, my wife uses 8 (for C&P and grinding stuff) and 12kg (for swings and cleans and most ballistic stuff).

Also FWIW, I used to have 2x24 and 2x32. I subsequently sold everything but the 24. At my strongest (age 30) I could C&P 2x32 for one 1 rep and C&PP 2x24 for 50 reps in little over 8 minutes. Not any more though ;-P But it gives you some idea/goal. My weight was around 78-80kg at the time. I'm 188cm.

I also agree on Pavel's writing. He's never going to win any literature prices, but the knowledge is solid and top-level. My one complaint is that I tend to feel like I overpay for the books, e.g. $30, sparse writing, only a couple of ideas that could have been compressed into a 10 page brochure and sold for $2. But that's just because I suffer from the idea that I pay for paper and words and not ideas. I prefer his DVDs.

1taskaday
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Re: Kettlebells; how to choose

Post by 1taskaday »

A simple kettle bell routine for women beginners is The 30 mins beginner kettle bell routine by Fitness Blender free on YouTube.

For years I have struggled to get a routine going with kettle bells.

I just want to look at a tv screen and copy...no thought about anything else.

This routine is simple and easy to follow.

I use 16kg for swinging and deadlifts,12kg for rest.

I nearly feel sick after doing the routine-seemingly growth hormone according to Art DeLaney...a good thing.

Gilberto de Piento
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Re: Kettlebells; how to choose

Post by Gilberto de Piento »

I just want to look at a tv screen and copy...no thought about anything else.
Youtube has a lot of training videos of varying quality. I haven't looked specifically in kettlebells but I suspect there will be a lot of them.

FBeyer
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Re: Kettlebells; how to choose

Post by FBeyer »

jacob wrote:...
I also agree on Pavel's writing. He's never going to win any literature prices, but the knowledge is solid and top-level...
I actually bought the book yesterday. I saw someone else quoting from ETK and the writing style was vastly different from the intro.
I think that Pavel did not run his book by a typograher before sending it to press, so his Table Of Contents is a mashup of figure captions and subsection headings separated by ellipses. Which explain the style best described as heavily medicated.
The book is perfectly legible once you move beyond the preview/Table of Contents.

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