Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

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jennypenny
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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by jennypenny » Fri Jun 10, 2016 5:54 pm

I just counted, and I have links to 42 different studies on fasting. The common recommendations are (1) fasting daily for 15-18 hours (the study Ego linked to using 13 hours was the shortest time frame I've seen recommended), and (2) fasting either 2 days/week or 3-5 days/month using a strict fast. Longo's fasting-mimicking diet seems to work in place of a strict fast, but they haven't released the details of the diet yet. The only info I've seen is listed earlier in the thread.

I have to start weekly blood tests in July for 8 weeks. I'm thinking of trying some version of IF while I'm getting the tests so I can see what effect it has on my bloodwork. Granted, I'm not exactly a pristine specimen from which to judge, but it should give some sense of what is affected by IF.

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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by enigmaT120 » Sun Jun 12, 2016 12:00 pm

What are they testing for?

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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by jennypenny » Sun Jun 12, 2016 7:39 pm

The blood tests are to make sure a new treatment I'm starting isn't doing more harm than good. (they said odds are 50/50 :roll: )

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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by jennypenny » Sat Jul 09, 2016 2:27 pm

New podcast/video on IF on Rhonda Patrick's site. It focuses on breast cancer at first, but discusses more generally later on. The guest mentioned that starting the fast earlier in the evening produced better results. They also discuss how it relates to circadian rhythms. https://youtu.be/8qlrB84xp5g

Dr. Satchin Panda was on last week discussing his thoughts on IF and circadian rhythms ... https://youtu.be/-R-eqJDQ2nU

RP's take is that the clock starts as soon as you have a non-water item, so morning coffee starts the clock even if it's black. :(

-------------
I've started a strict regimen of morning exercise, a smoothie afterward at noon, and a meal before 5pm. My weekly bloodtests started last week so I'll report the results.

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BRUTE
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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by BRUTE » Sat Jul 09, 2016 7:05 pm

what clock starts after ingesting non-water items?

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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by jennypenny » Sat Jul 09, 2016 7:13 pm

Time-restricted feeding suggests that a person should fast at least 13 hours a day to gain any benefit. That means eating should be restricted to a certain window every day. The 'clock' is the eating window. It doesn't commence with the first food but with the first non-water item ingested.

I hadn't heard such a strict definition before. Several people here who do IF or the warrior diet have mentioned that they ingest coffee during the day. According to Patrick and Panda, that would negate or reduce the effects of both diets.

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BRUTE
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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by BRUTE » Sat Jul 09, 2016 8:01 pm

brute just listened to the episode.

first he thought that what she was saying ("start the fast early in the evening, around 7pm") contradicted many popular IF protocols like the Warrior Diet and Leangains. but then again, she says she wakes up at 7am, somewhat of an early bird (most humans' circadian clock would wake them up 8-10am). but if she was up at 7am, she probably goes to bed around 11pm. if relation to the circadian clock is important, it could be said humans should not eat 4 hours before going to bed. so brute can eat until much later.

another interesting point: is the optimal eating time related to the actual circadian rhythm, or to when humans wake up? the majority of humans wake up using alarm clocks, before their optimal circadian waking time. if waking up 3h before natural waking point, should a human eat 3h earlier, too? or is this related to the circadian clock itself, which is not changed by the alarm clock.

this could explain the misalignment with popular IF protocols: most humans' circadian clock would wake them between 8-10am, and therefore, their optimal eating time would be 1-3h after what she's saying, in effect 7-10pm.

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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by Ego » Tue Aug 30, 2016 10:52 pm

Dr. Satchin Panda from Salk explaining how each of our organs has it's own biological clock and metabolism becomes inefficient when these clocks get out of sync which then causes metabolites to build up and in turn cause illness.

https://youtu.be/-R-eqJDQ2nU?t=28m3s

The light/dark cycle regulates the circadian clock in our brain but food intake regulates the clocks in most of the other organs. He makes some interesting points on the importance of food timing and the syncing of these clocks.

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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by Ego » Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:25 am

It is a long video so I am watching it in bits. Here he talks about a new study showing why it is better to eat early in the day rather than late in the day. Metabolically we are more insulin resistant in the evening (it takes more insulin to do the same work)....

https://youtu.be/-R-eqJDQ2nU?t=55m17s

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BRUTE
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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by BRUTE » Wed Aug 31, 2016 4:09 pm

Ego wrote:It is a long video so I am watching it in bits. Here he talks about a new study showing why it is better to eat early in the day rather than late in the day. Metabolically we are more insulin resistant in the evening (it takes more insulin to do the same work)....

https://youtu.be/-R-eqJDQ2nU?t=55m17s
interesting. brute has read that it's good to eat later for the exact same reason - in the morning, the cells are so insulin sensitive that they will completely overreact and cause a huge crash in blood glucose, leading humans to be hungry again despite just having eaten breakfast. cortisol is also high in the morning, helping this crash happen.

brute personally is never hungry in the morning and feels much better eating late afternoons or evenings.

edit: isn't this the exact same video posted by jennypenny 2 months ago?

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Ego
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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by Ego » Wed Aug 31, 2016 5:19 pm

Whoops. Yes it is the same video. She just sent it out in her newsletter so I assumed it was new.

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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by jennypenny » Wed Aug 31, 2016 8:03 pm

We listened to a bunch of her podcasts while we were driving around SD and WY. At one point, my son said "shouldn't we know this stuff already?" We talked about how much research money and brain power has been funneled into other disciplines that, although interesting, don't directly impact us like health-related research.

update on my IF test ... I developed an infection and had to go on antibiotics that require me to eat with every pill, so I'm off the IF for now. As soon as I'm done with the antibiotics (3 weeks and counting so far :( ), I'll go back to it. It's too bad because they also stopped the other treatment so I won't be able to track any changes to my blood work.

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Dragline
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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by Dragline » Wed Aug 31, 2016 9:23 pm

Very sorry to hear that. Hope you recover quickly.

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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by jennypenny » Sat Oct 01, 2016 3:50 pm

Rhonda Patrick interview with Valter Longo about the Fast-Mimicking Diet ... https://youtu.be/d6PyyatqJSE

He has a book coming out.

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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by Augustus » Sun Oct 02, 2016 12:04 am

I'm surprised no one has brought up the Mormons. They fast once a month for one day at a time, then donate the food they would have eaten to charity, I think it's an admirable idea.
Mormon men live 10 years longer than other U.S. white males.Mormon women live more than five years longer than other U.S. white females.Those are the among the results of a 25-year study into the health habits and the longevity of the Mormon lifestyle by non-Mormon UCLA professors James E. Enstrom and Lester Breslow, who summarized their research with the conclusion: "Several healthy characteristics of the Mormon lifestyle are associated with substantially reduced death rates and increased life expectancy."The study, conducted from 1980 to 2004, included information from questionnaire responses by more than 9,800 faithful Mormon couples and concluded that practicing Mormons in California had the lowest total death rates and the longest life expectancies ever documented in a well-defined U.S. cohort.
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/7053 ... tml?pg=all

I basically copy their standard issue advice, fast the first Sunday of each month. I cheat a little by having one green smoothie in the morning, but I eat nothing else until the next morning, so it's a 24 hr fast. It does have a noticeable effect on my wellbeing.

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BRUTE
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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by BRUTE » Sun Oct 02, 2016 12:49 am

Augustus wrote:I basically copy their standard issue advice, fast the first Sunday of each month. I cheat a little by having one green smoothie in the morning, but I eat nothing else until the next morning, so it's a 24 hr fast. It does have a noticeable effect on my wellbeing.
the Warrior Diet is similar. it basically means eating only during a small window each day, typically a 4 hour window. e.g. eating only from 6-10pm every day. for simplicity and because of laziness, brute often just eats a single meal per day, thus effectively fasting 23.5h per day. brute thinks several humans on the forum practice this as well.

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Dragline
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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by Dragline » Sun Oct 02, 2016 7:19 am

Recent podcast featuring an intermittent fasting guru:

https://blog.bulletproof.com/brad-pilon-348/

What I found most interesting about it is that he has gotten away from "one-size-fits-all" thinking and advocates tailoring your practices to go with your body-fat and activity levels.

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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by jennypenny » Sun Oct 02, 2016 9:05 am

Longo said something similar in Patrick's podcast. Longo advocated two meals a day with 12 hours in between. Patrick was pushing for a longer fasting window based on the evidence. He acknowledged the benefits, but also said something like 'you can't take away people's happiness' meaning compliance is as important as the regimen.

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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by BRUTE » Sun Oct 02, 2016 11:41 am

both good points. brute used to always do 23/1 when he didn't work out. now that he's a bit leaner and works out almost every day, he eats more often, just because it can be hard to eat 2 full meals in 1, and working out, he seems to eat more.

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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by jennypenny » Wed Oct 26, 2016 6:50 pm

I'm (finally!) off the antibiotics. I'm going to re-start the strict IF. I'll be getting regular blood tests so I'll be able to monitor how it affects things.

Of course, since I'm starting tomorrow I'm binging tonight lol. So stupid since I know it will make me feel worse as I adjust. If my posts are extra nasty over the next few days, you'll know why. :P

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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by Eureka » Thu Oct 27, 2016 2:33 am

jennypenny wrote:

RP's take is that the clock starts as soon as you have a non-water item, so morning coffee starts the clock even if it's black. :(
Thanks for the links to Rhonda Patrick. I just listened to a couple of her podcasts and she keeps on stressing that anything but water counts as non-fasting. However, I didn't encounter any explanation nor evidence for that. She just repeats it again and again as if it is a given fact. As she is very thorough explaining and documenting basically everything else, I miss this explanation / documentation even more. Did anyone encounter it or could it just be hear-say?

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Dragline
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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by Dragline » Thu Oct 27, 2016 5:40 am

fyi. one of the most recent Tim Ferriss podcasts features the med/scientists that discovered and/or worked with Rapamycin and m-Tor. They discuss autophagy, too. Unfortunately, its kind of rambling 3-hour mess, but there are a few interesting things in there.

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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by BRUTE » Thu Oct 27, 2016 10:05 am

Eureka wrote:she keeps on stressing that anything but water counts as non-fasting. However, I didn't encounter any explanation nor evidence for that.
the reason seems to be that there isn't really one "fasting" switch in the body. some mechanisms are turned off by any insulin (carbs, protein), some by certain levels of insulin (too many simple carbs, too much protein without fat), some by anything, some by taste..

for fat loss it seems that it's mostly insulin, so carbs and protein would "break the fast" whereas fat is fine (in coffee for example). for other health things, maybe even fat is breaking the fast. some of these are binary (i.e. having one tiny bit to eat will turn off the effect completely), some are pretty linear.

for example it seems that ketosis has a threshold that's a bit different in every human, but only a tiny bit above that threshold will almost completely stop ketosis. so even eating lots of protein for dinner might kick someone out of ketosis for a few hours. that doesn't matter for fat loss, but for epileptics/alzheimers or other more clinical conditions, it might pose a huge problem.

@Dragline: wast that Dom D'Agostino? all his interviews are great, brute is a big fan.

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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by Chad » Thu Oct 27, 2016 10:23 am

I believe it's the recent Ferriss podcast with the three doctors/researchers.

http://fourhourworkweek.com/2016/10/20/ ... er-island/

I'm about halfway through it right now. The Rapamycin discussion is interesting. I liked the rambling messiness of it.

@Brute
I like D'Agostino too.

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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by Eureka » Thu Oct 27, 2016 1:51 pm

Thanks @Brute. I didn't even know coffee contains fat, but I checked and indeed there is a tiny bit.

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