Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

[jennypenny]

I should have asked ... has anyone read Longo's book? I'm particularly interested in the opinion of someone who is a proponent of a keto/paleo/low carb diet. I read it because I'm still on a quest to find a vegan-ish diet that provides enough nutrients for me.

[jacob]

I read it. It was sufficiently convincing to me to reduce my otherwise large rice/pasta intake to somewhere between zero or just a small component (1/2 cup) of my meals. All replaced with more vegetables. Dairy is now a rarity. He also makes the argument for more fish---I never really liked fish. Trigger-alert: Red/white meat and dairy don't get any kind comments. Beyond that, I mostly paid attention to what I already knew/ate: Also notes the benefits of time restricted eating, now also known as intermittent fasting.

So tl;dr: Vegan+fish on an IF (18 hour) schedule + the occasional/optional annual fast (5 days or so).

Oh yeah, and eating lentil soup is vindicated. One of the few suggested recipes in the book is close to my old version of lentil soup. His tastes better. Add peas and a potato. Note that despite all the bad things he says about cheese, some recipes contain a little bit of cheese (like a spoonful of parmesan).

I've lost ~5lbs over the past few weeks. I suspect mostly water weight because there's less glycogen to bind to now.

(Much of the Longevity book is used to promote his system. It's expensive and complicated (you need to supply the phone number of your doctor for consulting, lots of CYA). The system is mainly intended for those who think water fasting is hard. Conversely, proponents of waster fasting would think that the proposed 500kcal longevity diet is harder. Anyway, they're both designed to elicit the same effects.)

I'd suggest combining it with: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1628600012/ ...

[Stahlmann]

How is it possible to eat at least 2k kcal without pasta/rice on vegan diet in short eating window?

[Kriegsspiel]

Bagels.

[jacob]

@Stahlman - What do you mean short window? You have 6 hours to do it.

Example1: At 4pm you eat the equivalent of breakfast. At 7pm you eat the equivalent of lunch and dinner.
Example2: At 5pm you eat the equivalent of lunch. At 7pm you eat the equivalent of dinner. At 9pm you eat the equivalent of breakfast.
Example3: At 6pm you eat the equivalent of three dinners.

Exact times don't matter. Only the size of the window.

DW (who cooks by recipe) likes to inform me (and everyone else) that she usually cooks dinner for 4 people, where I eat for 3 of them (I mostly follow example 3). It's not hard to eat a normal day's worth of food in one sitting if the stomach has been empty for nearly 24 hours. It IS hard to eat enough to bulk up or fatten up though. I think that's 90% of the point for those who do IF.

[jennypenny]

@jacob--Do you have coffee or tea in the morning (I assume black) or do you stick to water?

@anyone--I'm still a little confused about his recommendation to choose foods that our ancestors would have eaten. I'm of Irish descent and the Irish aren't exactly known for their longevity, so why would I want to choose traditional Irish foods (albeit ones that fit into the diet)? My own parents died young (58 & 63) which makes me think that my goal should be to reduce the influence of my ancestry as much as possible.

It's interesting that Longo mentioned the effects on melanoma in particular. I'm more inclined to try it now.

I picked up the other book jacob recommended. I'll read it after the game this afternoon.

[jacob]

I had a cup of black tea Sunday. Half a cup yesterday, and the last half today. Before that it's been a few weeks since I had my last cup of tea or coffee. Otherwise, I drink water. If I drink any coffee/tea, it's ALWAYS black. Adding sugar would defy the purpose. I don't like creamer.

Fung talks about using bulletproof coffee. In the Warrior Diet Hofmekler suggests adding cream to carry you through.

I really like coffee (or maybe rather caffeine). After drinking coffee daily for many years, I started playing around with the "schedule" and found that I like sleeping well more than I like coffee. I've therefore dialed my caffeine intake down so it's more of an occasional treat than a habit or a dependency.

It's certainly easier to go without food using caffeine because it stabilizes blood sugar levels. Fung seems to have no problem with this effect.

[Bankai]

+1 JP.

The argument to 'eat foods that your ancestors have eaten' doesn't make much sense. First, how long back do you go? 100 years? 100k years? The vast majority of humans throughout history ate poorly and were malnutritioned. They couldn't really choose what they ate but they ate what was available/affordable (very little choice). It's like 'you should have a varied diet' - an advice that might help an 'average' person (read: someone on SAD) but nowadays one can do much much better (consciously choosing the healthiest foods on the planet that none of one's ancestors ever had access to).

Also, why would anyone ruin an otherwise healthy diet by adding junk food? Fish is in many respects even worse than chicken, and that's not easy.

[Bankai]

@Augustus:

It's the most polluted food on the planet (oceans = humanity’s sewer).

High in cholesterol and saturated fat.

Also, the most acid-producing (kidney stones, gout).

Very low in antioxidants and generally low in vitamins.

The only real benefit from eating fish is omega-3 which can be easily sourced from safer foods.

[jacob]

Oh, I almost forgot about the fruit.

As per Longo, I've largely cut out fruit as well even if it goes against all the standard advice.

[prognastat]

Oh, I almost forgot about the fruit.

As per Longo, I've largely cut out fruit as well even if it goes against all the standard advice.

Same here. The standard advice hasn't done a very good job up to this point.

[jennypenny]

The fruit thing is going to kill me, even more than giving up cheese. It also rubs me the wrong way resilience-wise because it's so easy to plant, it's hardy, and it produces for years. My yard is overflowing with blueberries, blackberries, raspberries, strawberries, apples, pears, peaches, and cherries right now. *sigh*

[Bankai]

Fruit is bad?

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Humans evolved eating fruits for like, millions of years. If there's a food that we are totally adapted to eat, it's fruits.

Full of vitamins, minerals, antioxidants, phytonutrients (thousands identified so far, possibly many more still to be identified).

Rich in fiber, which something like 95% of people don't get enough of.

What would possibly be an argument NOT to eat them? And how about decades of research stating otherwise?

[jennypenny]

Why don't you read the book or watch some of the linked videos in upthread? It's hard to explain the pieces out of context.

I watch my carbs so I don't eat much fruit but I do eat some. I guess I can still use the berries as a garnish on salads.

[prognastat]

You do realise that historically fruits were far from the sugar bombs they are these days right? They have been selectively bred over time to have more sugars and less fibers. The vegetables I eat are a better source for fiber without the sugar.

This shows just how much some of our staples have changed just in appearance:
https://www.sciencealert.com/fruits-veg ... estication

[BRUTE]

Humans evolved eating fruits for like, millions of years. If there's a food that we are totally adapted to eat, it's fruits.

same is true for saturated animal fats.

[BRUTE]

In the Warrior Diet Hofmekler suggests adding cream to carry you through. [..] It's certainly easier to go without food using caffeine because it stabilizes blood sugar levels.

coffee with cream and MCT oil is absurdly effective at this. the MCT oil really adds another level of appetite suppression. last time brute fasted for ~10 days, he tried consuming a few cups of bulletproof coffee this way. it completely turned off cravings that would usually happen after ~3 days of fasting, and the fatty acids in the bulletproof coffee don't really account for it. (also, as an A/B test, brute has done the same minus the MCT oil, and it definitely wasn't as effective).

if the body is adapted to burning fats, MCT oil gets turned into ketones by the liver, which are then able to provide the brain with energy. most cravings are caused by the brain lacking energy, so even a tiny amount of MCT can quench those cravings. it worked almost too well.

by the way, Fung is a bit of a quack. the claims he makes about fasting are way to generalized. for example, he says things like "Fasting is not dangerous", or "fasting reduces hunger", without qualifying "at body fat levels above 20% or so". even when called out by the more serious fasting experts, he refuses to qualify statements.

[Kriegsspiel]

I am pleased to see this confirmation of coffee + heavy cream as being the superior coffee.

[IlliniDave]

I think if one were to eat fruit strictly in season the way our ancestors that did the evolving had to, it could probably be worked into most successful long-term diets once someone is maintaining a body weight. It's probably best for a lot of people to forgo fruit when trying to lose significant weight.

Today is day 1 for me on a more ketogenic-based approach. I unknowingly was following a warrior scheme as far as eating only a single meal most days, which I'll stick with unless I go with bullet-proof coffee for a while to smooth the transition. I've decided to give it at least a month as an experiment. I am not confident I can force myself to eat the required amount of fat on a consistent basis while keeping the right protein limits though, without resorting to doing shots of olive oil or the equivalent. I like avocados, but not enough to eat seven of them every day.

[7Wannabe5]

I have been doing IF again, and dropped 6 lbs. almost entirely off of my abdomen. I am taking a break, because my usually cast-iron digestive system was starting to revolt against this practice. However, I must agree that if your goal is to look okay-if-you-squint-your-eyes in a bathing suit as quickly and painlessly as possible, IF is probably the best method.