Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

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jennypenny
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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by jennypenny » Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:06 am


Augustus
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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by Augustus » Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:50 pm

Does anyone know if one time frame is better than another for restricting food? I like to have a green smoothie first thing in the morning, it always makes me feel great, then get some carbs in and exercise a few hours later. I haven't experimented much, but I always like to eat before exercising to get maximum performance, I often feel weak if I don't have carbs before exercising. Are there benefits to skipping breakfast and eating between say 12-6pm or 12-4pm? Is a window of 4 hours better than 6? or 8? Is it better to eat in the evening vs the morning or afternoon? Often I'll just have a piece of fruit from 6-9pm so I'm not hungry when I go to bed, maybe having no food at all after 6pm would be hard as it might impact my ability to sleep?

Is alternate day fasting better then the warrior diet?

So many different flavors of intermittent fasting, but it seems like not enough research to give definitive answers on which system is best and why.

Clarice
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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by Clarice » Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:49 pm

Immune system is influenced, among other things, by hormones. Hormone production is influenced by the time of the day. Your body reacts differently to different foods throughout the day. Here is a good resource that addresses these connections:

https://primalpotential.com/

Augustus
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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by Augustus » Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:20 pm

I looked at that site, but it was difficult to see if I could pull that information up quickly vs looking through years of blog posts.

I started doing a 6/18 fast, eating window of 11am-5pm. I time this right before I usually exercise around 12 so that I can carb up a bit, otherwise I feel really weak. I've noticed nothing other than having really bad breath in the mornings, I'll have to find a bulk supplier of sugar free gum or something to combat that. I've been having some of those 5 calorie star bucks mints when I have to interact with people. I'm not hungry at all while fasting. I'm mostly interested in the immune system/disease prevention aspects of this intermittent fasting thing, especially as cancer runs in my family. Extra lifespan would be nice too. I'll have to research more on Hugh Jackmans specific diet, that turned out pretty stunning, whether or not I have the genetics or diet or workout regimen to support that is something else though...
Last edited by Augustus on Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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daylen
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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by daylen » Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:30 pm

I think exercise is a major factor in determining the appropriate fasting window. I have noticed that when I am highly active the eating window is best expanded to 12-8pm where caloric intake is gradually increased, but if I am inactive then the window can be narrowed to 5-8pm. The window also obviously depends on the ratio of fats/protein/carbs consumed to previous day.

jennypenny
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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by jennypenny » Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:53 pm

I think current research suggests that the optimal daily fasting window should be 14 hours. Clock starts ticking at the first sip of coffee. I can't dig it up now (have an 8pm skype) but the info probably comes from Rhonda Patrick or Sachin Panda if you want to google it.

Augustus
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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by Augustus » Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:23 pm

jennypenny wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:53 pm
I think current research suggests that the optimal daily fasting window should be 14 hours. Clock starts ticking at the first sip of coffee. I can't dig it up now (have an 8pm skype) but the info probably comes from Rhonda Patrick or Sachin Panda if you want to google it.
First sip of coffee?!?! Noooooooo.....

Even black? I read black was okay. I've been having about a shot glass worth of black cold brew in the mornings around 9am, but I guess that still puts me at 8/16 fasting.

Augustus
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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by Augustus » Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:41 pm

Second hand comments on topic: https://www.reddit.com/r/fasting/commen ... yes_black/

So apparently it switches something on in regards to metabolism, maybe. Would have to research more.

And
There is some crosstalk between the master circadian clock regulator in the suprachiasmatic nucleus and the peripheral clocks (in the liver & other tissues). This fact suggests that the earlier, the better but it seems as though the main thing is to eat within that 8-12 hour period and fast for 12-16 hours regardless of the time of day. Satchin and I discuss this in the recently published round 2 podcast episode at 00:40:56.
From possibly Rhonda herself.

And
Could someone please let me know if vitamins and/or probiotics start this cycle? I’m assuming they do if coffee and tea should be consumed within your 8-12 hour window, but I’d appreciate confirmation :)

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dan edited 2 months ago | link
As a rule, anything non-water has to be metabolized and that means you’re “restarting the clock” within some tissues like the liver.

That said, using the strictest definition is not necessarily required to reap benefits. In episode 2 with Dr. Panda, he actually points at that coffee was not excluded in the time-restricted eating trial conducted by Dr. Ruth Patterson’s group (the one that showed a 36% reduction in breast cancer recurrence). See 01:09:52 of the round 2 episode to hear discussion about that. It’s clear that, at least in this case, there were still benefits.

To learn more about Dr. Patterson’s trial you should also check out the episode with her below:

Ruth Patterson, Ph.D. on Time-Restricted Eating in Humans & Breast Cancer Prevention
Also, for more of these “practical implementation” tidbits, I suggest searching the round 2 episode’s TIMELINE for “practical implementation”. Lots of great stuff there!

I think the general take home is this: you can probably take your vitamins and probiotics without completely undermining yourself, but it’s more in line with the general philosophy of time-restricted eating (and its special emphasis on the circadian oscillations going on in our tissues) if you include them as part of your eating window.

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nowheregirl 2 months ago | link
Thank you Dan! That’s super helpful—I haven’t seen the practical implementation video yet. I’ll be sure to check it out.

1
rd361a 4 months ago | link
The interesting coincidence, is time-restricted feeding done at 9 hours increases muscular endurance possibly due to the ketone bodies produced. This is per Dr. Rhonda Patrick in her interview with Dr. Satchin Panda

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rhonda edited 3 months ago | link
This still needs to be empirically proven but it seems very likely that it is. Satchin and I discuss this possibility in the round 2 episode recently published at 01:23:57.
https://www.foundmyfitness.com/news/s/m ... _mass_more

And
Dr. Ruth Patterson is a professor in the UC San Diego Department of Family Medicine and Public Health as well as Associate Director of Population Sciences and leader of the Cancer Prevention program at Moores Cancer Center at UC San Diego Health.

What are the factors influencing the risk for breast cancer?

Obesity
It increases the risk by 2-fold.
Physical activity
Types of food
It’s hard to identify what types of food increases the risks.
Use of tobacco
Oestrogen
It’s a growth factor hormone that can promote the growth of tumours.
Fat cells can secrete oestrogen.
By researching on oestrogen level, scientist found another growth factor that can cause breast cancer: insulin.
Insulin
People that are overweight, physically inactive and diabetic have a higher insulin level in their blood.
High insulin level decreases SHBG, which binds oestrogen to make it unusable.
A combination of causes and growth factors increases the risk of breast cancer.
Oestrogen and insulin are linked.
Inflammation
Changing your diet can modify health biomarkers.

Timing your meals is important.
Evolution moulded us to eat during day and fast during night.
It is physically detrimental to eat high amount of calories and to lie down afterwards.
Eating your biggest meal at supper, when you’re insulin insensitive, deregulates your metabolism.
By deregulating the circadian clock and the organ’s clock, it increases the chances of getting metabolic disorders.
Is time restricting better than intermittent fasting?

According to research, fasting should start around 7 or 8 PM and should last 13 hours.
Some studies that show that skipping breakfast is bad
Actually, people who skip breakfast eat late at night and that’s bad.
Western lifestyle is cancerogenic.
What are the effects of fasting?

A 13-hour fast reduces to risk of breast cancer recurrence by 40%.
A 13-hour fast reduces to risk of breast cancer mortality by 20%.
A 13-hour fast could possibly help in cases of:
Fatty liver
Acid reflux
Diabetes
Quality of food still matters.
Time restricting is easy to do without disrupting your life too much.
Its success often encourages people to do more.
Fasting decreases haemoglobin A1C level, which is a marker on the average glucose in our blood.
It’s a powerful marker used to test diabetes drugs.
Fasting offers is an alternative to drugs.
Time restricting can reduce CRP, an indicator of inflammation, if people start to fast fairly early in the evening.
Fasting promotes repairs in the body by clearing away damaged cells.
Just like you need a rest day after exercising, you need a resting period after eating.
Does the amount of meal we eat during a 12-hour period matter?

Reducing the number of hours when you eat can reduce the number of times you eat.
Studies are still being conducted on that subject.
How is weight loss related to time restricting and breast cancer?

Time restricting eating doesn’t cause major weight loss.
Weight loss has a positive effect on biomarkers.
Scientists believe that weight loss is independent from those biomarkers, meaning that you get the positive effect whether or not you lose weight.
Time restricting helps with metabolic activity, sleeping pattern and spontaneous activity.
What are the lifestyle changes to adopt?

Lifestyle and genetic factors play an equal part in reducing risk and recurrence of breast cancer
For the small percentage of women that have the gene Brca1 and 2, it’s hard to determine how much their lifestyle can affect cancer.
65% to 75% of breast cancers can be changed with lifestyle habits such as:
Alcohol intake
Obesity
Smoking
Low physical activity
Your genes don’t DOOM you.
Even if you only lose 5% to 10% of your weight, it can help you tremendously.
Its important to always improve these things:
Modest weight loss
Time restricting feeding
Physical activity
Sedentary behaviour
Sleeping pattern
Food choices
Those changes can also help decrease the chances of getting other metabolic disorders such as cardiovascular diseases and diabetes.
You don’t have to be perfect. It’s okay to slip up from time to time.
http://podcastnotes.org/2016/07/19/time ... %E2%80%AC/

I'm sold. That's pretty incredible.

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BRUTE
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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by BRUTE » Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:03 am

for what it's worth, brute's personal experience suggests the exact opposite of what Patrick and Panda claim. brute is never hungry in the morning, but does really well on large dinners. the opposite does not seem to work well in terms of comfort, fullness, and convenience.

Warrior Diet seems optimal to brute. with heavy workout load, eating window can be expanded to lunch and dinner.

classical_Liberal
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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by classical_Liberal » Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:32 am

I've been doing a warrior diet >10 years, more or less. The only time I change it up is for social reasons (ie not to offend hosts when food is provided). This evolved overtime, I did not make any attempts to adjust eating habits. As a matter of fact, until I began reading these forums, I didn't even know it was a "thing". Although I did know of the benefits of intermittent fasting.

I, like Brute, eat late in my day. However, work schedule often has me working overnights 1800 to 0800, so then I eat in the morning. It began by skipping breakfast due to time crunches in the AM, after about 3 months I was no longer hungry at breakfast time. Then I skipped lunches, but mainly because they were an interruption, PITA (wait in lines, ect), and I always felt tired after. Again, about 3 months and I was no longer hungry at lunch time. The drowsiness I feel 1-2 hours after the large meal also helps me sleep when I'm constantly changing sleep schedules. Healh benefits? I'll let you know in 40 years :lol: but it definitely helps me control weight as I trend towards higher BMI's any time I stray from this pattern. A1C, lipid panels, etc are always good, no cancer, I'm 41

Augustus
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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by Augustus » Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:10 pm

classical_Liberal wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:32 am
The drowsiness I feel 1-2 hours after the large meal also helps me sleep when I'm constantly changing sleep schedules. Healh benefits? I'll let you know in 40 years :lol: but it definitely helps me control weight as I trend towards higher BMI's any time I stray from this pattern. A1C, lipid panels, etc are always good, no cancer, I'm 41
in one of those articles they said that eating and then sleeping soon after can cause issues, something about leaky gut and inflammation and intestinal wall repair.

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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by classical_Liberal » Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:45 am

@Augustus
I've "heard" the same thing for a long time from nutritional experts. I also "hear" the need for 3 meals a day and snacks, as of yet none of the Post grad educated professional dietitians I have met in the acute care workplace have been able to provide any body of evidence backing these assertions

I take those claims with a grain of salt (ha!). I think nutritional science is even more difficult than medical science because humans are unreliable historians.

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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by Augustus » Sat Feb 10, 2018 7:08 pm

I've been researching this more, and I am interested in attempting to replicate the Fast Mimicking Diet proposed by Dr. Longo. Has anyone attempted this at home? At first glance it seems as though I could watch protein, fat, and carb intake and keep it at low levels for 5 days, alternating eggs, mixed nuts, green smoothies, and vegetable soup. Is it just glorified ketosis? Or am I oversimplifying this? I skimmed this guys post: http://foreverfreefrom.com/fasting-mimi ... iet-guide/ but I'm short on time, so I'll have to come back to it later.

His ProLon boxes sell for $250 per week (you fast one week a month), which is really overpriced for food, but then, what would I pay for longevity and feeling great? Well, I'd definitely pay $250 per month if it was the only way to lock in a few extra years of feeling good in my life.

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Kriegsspiel
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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by Kriegsspiel » Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:45 pm

Why waste calories on fat and carbs? Eat a small amount of protein and some fish oil. Lyle McDonald wrote the book on Protein Sparing Modified Fasting, it's better than the protocol that site detailed:
As I mentioned in the previous chapter, therapeutic starvation for weight loss was great in terms
of the weight/fat loss that it generated but had one huge problem associated with it: the loss of too much
LBM. This sent researchers looking for a solution. Early studies tried giving small amounts of either
carbohydrates or fats for energy. In the short term, at least, carbs did have some protein sparing effect.
In the long-term, carbs were actually detrimental as they prevented the development and adaptation to
ketosis. Fat didn’t really have an effect either way except that it allowed ketosis to develop (because
carbs weren’t being eaten) so that the adaptations could take place.

Finally, someone got the bright idea to try just giving small amounts of proteins to see if this
would allow all of the ‘benefits’ of starvation without the large loss of body protein that was occurring.
Voila, this worked and folks realize that the most protein sparing nutrient of all is protein. Err, duh.
By providing protein intake, the liver was now using dietary protein instead of body protein to
make glucose, sparing the loss of LBM that had been occurring. This approach was called a protein
sparing modified fast or PSMF.

He also won't fuck you with some $250/week nonsense.

Augustus
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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by Augustus » Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:17 am

I read a little more, purely protein probably won't produce the desired effects.
Day 1: 10 to 16 calories per kg bodyweight, 10% protein, 56% fat, 34% carbs

Days 2 – 5: 7 to 11 calories per kg bodyweight, 9% protein, 44% fat, 47% carbs

I consider the fat % as the only macro safe to exceed. Too much protein or carbohydrate will prevent or delay progression into ketosis. Too much protein is likely to interfere with reduction of IGF-1. Therefore if you struggle to match the macros precisely, go over with fat, don’t go over on protein or carbs. Note that the researchers also emphasise unsaturated fats in their design, which means choices like olives, rapeseed and macadamia nut oil rather than butter and coconut oil.
Honestly not sure how to produce that ratio, keeping unsaturated fat high and protein low without too many carbs is tricky. Lots of cashews and walnuts I guess?

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BRUTE
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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by BRUTE » Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:13 pm

or just water fast. a week's not that long.

Augustus
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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by Augustus » Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:36 pm

I thought about it, but I don't think I could handle a water fast while I work, programming requires brain food. My IQ drops by a lot when I don't have fuel. I've run a few scenarios, I think I could do an egg a day, a green smoothie, and a handful or two of mixed nuts, to keep the calories and ratios in the correct range. I could handle that for 5 days. I also like that blogs idea of actually testing yourself to see if it's working.

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BRUTE
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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by BRUTE » Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:08 am

brute hasn't noticed any IQ drop, but he gets very irritable after 3+ days of not eating. hard to concentrate, too. so probably not to be advised during work. brute isn't convinced any "fast mimicking diet" would yield different results, though..

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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by jennypenny » Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:33 am

Augustus -- I posted some of Longo's suggestions earlier in the thread (before he started selling his own plan). There are links too but I haven't checked to see if they're dead.

Augustus
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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by Augustus » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:31 am

jennypenny wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:33 am
Augustus -- I posted some of Longo's suggestions earlier in the thread (before he started selling his own plan). There are links too but I haven't checked to see if they're dead.
Wow how did I miss that! I searched "mimic" in the forum search but I didn't see anything.

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