More on Microbiome

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Ego
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Re: More on Microbiome

Post by Ego » Tue Dec 15, 2015 7:27 pm

jennypenny wrote: @Dr. Ego--So what's the recommendation when someone is on antibiotics? I'm on another three-week stint and my stomach will be a wreck by the end of it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6RBfoITbls ;)
Dragline wrote:Even to the point of recommending supplements over real food to deal with the likely nutrient deficiencies of such a diet that even Gregor acknowledges -- if you look close enough.

It's too bad they are not up front about it and just call the site "The Benefits of Plant-Based Diets" or something along those lines.
He was interviewed by Dr. Mercola yesterday and spoke about this. His day job is the Director of Public Health for the Humane Society but the site is a labor of love funded like wikipedia.

https://youtu.be/ZjH-sSD65M8?t=21m36s

jennypenny
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Re: More on Microbiome

Post by jennypenny » Tue Dec 15, 2015 7:37 pm

Ego wrote:
jennypenny wrote: @Dr. Ego--So what's the recommendation when someone is on antibiotics? I'm on another three-week stint and my stomach will be a wreck by the end of it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6RBfoITbls ;)
:shock:

So. Wrong.

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Dragline
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Re: More on Microbiome

Post by Dragline » Wed Dec 16, 2015 12:41 am

Ego wrote:
He was interviewed by Dr. Mercola yesterday and spoke about this. His day job is the Director of Public Health for the Humane Society but the site is a labor of love funded like wikipedia.
Um. no. He is funded by this foundation: http://www.raschfoundation.org/about/

Essentially some very wealthy people with very specific ideas and goals. Not unlike the Koch brothers, but with a different focus.

I do not mind their support or their perspective. What is disturbing is how they hide their identity and their goals behind a number of links. That you think their funding is like "wikipedia" illustrates the level of deception. Classic Eddie Bernays type stuff.

Crazylemon
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Re: More on Microbiome

Post by Crazylemon » Wed Dec 16, 2015 8:00 am

jennypenny wrote:
Ego wrote:
jennypenny wrote: @Dr. Ego--So what's the recommendation when someone is on antibiotics? I'm on another three-week stint and my stomach will be a wreck by the end of it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6RBfoITbls ;)
:shock:

So. Wrong.
Can't say I can advocate for what the video suggests. But we do use faecal transplants for people with certain infections. (as like a 3rd line option although tbh that is largely due to gross factor/cost than anything else). Although not with 'pure' donors. Best match is family that share the same environment as the patient normally. Failing that tends to be the lab staff. UK doesn't pay $40 a poop!

Anything beyond that sort of narrow window is a little 'far out' for now. Not that it isn't interesting.

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Ego
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Re: More on Microbiome

Post by Ego » Wed Dec 16, 2015 8:39 am

Dragline wrote:
Ego wrote:
His day job is the Director of Public Health for the Humane Society but the site is a labor of love funded like wikipedia.
Um. no. He is funded by this foundation: http://www.raschfoundation.org/about/
Like the Kock brothers. Hum. What would John Locke call that?

http://nutritionfacts.org/faq

Then how do the bills get paid? The Jesse and Julie Rasch Foundation provided the critical start-up seed money and expertise to get us off the ground, but now NutritionFacts.org runs strictly on the NPR or Wikipedia model of accepting donations from users who appreciate the content.


That said, I agree that he is biased toward a plant based approach and away from meat. In my opinion does a good job of checking his bias. For instance he did a series on how too much soy (the typical meat substitute for vegetarians) is not good.

You seem to be suggesting that something in those videos is untrue. Granted, he is piecing together new research so it is not the whole picture. Which he says.

From my perspective it makes sense. There seems to me to be a high correlation between the amount of meat consumed and incidence of certain diseases. I could be wrong. As far as I know, the research suggests that I am not.

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Dragline
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Re: More on Microbiome

Post by Dragline » Wed Dec 16, 2015 9:25 am

This is what I call the "Forks over Knives" fallacy, which erroneously equates the consumption of any animal foods at all with everything that is wrong in Western diets, without even attempting to remove the confounding factors of food processing and the quantities of the allegedly evil food being consumed.

Dr. Gregor actually admits the fundamental problem with no-meat diets, although he buries it on his site:

"There are two vitamins not available in plants: vitamins D and B12. There is a serious risk of B12 deficiency (see also here, here, here, here, here) if no supplements or B12-fortified foods are consumed, a particular danger for pregnant and breastfeeding mothers and their infants (see also here). It can lead to Vegetarian’s Myelopathy, paralysis, a variety of other problems, thickened arteries, and can shorten one’s lifespan. Two other nutrients to keep an eye on are iodine – which is harmful in too great or too small amounts (it is especially important during pregnancy, and can be found in sea vegetables), and zinc. Also recommended are yeast- or algae-based long chain omega 3 fatty acids. Rare genetic disorders may also require special supplementation." From: http://nutritionfacts.org/topics/plant-based-diets/

Then he confounding asserts that nutrients should be obtained from foods, except that you need supplements to account for ones you'll be lacking because he told you not to eat the foods that contain them. These kind of mental gymnastics make little sense unless there is another agenda besides human nutrition. Which is fine to have, but misleading to not admit it up front.

Absent his agenda, his conclusion should be the same as Michael Pollan's: "Eat real food, mostly plants and not too much" -- not "don't ever eat some of the things that contain what your body needs and take pills instead."

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Re: More on Microbiome

Post by Slevin » Wed Dec 16, 2015 11:29 pm

Just read an article about a guy claiming he will fight obesity and disease using genetically engineered E-coli. Now, as we can tell from above, we generally know very little about how the microbiome as a whole works... But some random guy thinks he can just go out there and genetically engineer bacteria into solving a complex problem. How could this ever go wrong ! :roll:

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Ego
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Re: More on Microbiome

Post by Ego » Thu Dec 17, 2015 9:48 am

Slevin wrote:Just read an article about a guy claiming he will fight obesity and disease using genetically engineered E-coli. Now, as we can tell from above, we generally know very little about how the microbiome as a whole works... But some random guy thinks he can just go out there and genetically engineer bacteria into solving a complex problem. How could this ever go wrong ! :roll:

Quote:
“We want to use a genetically engineered E. coli cell to sense the chemicals that signal gut disturbances linked with obesity,” Tabor says, “and then deliver beneficial molecules to prevent weight gain.”

Symptom-abatement has its place. I believe this is not the place. There are situations where removing the symptom increases the cause. Beware of those with good intentions.

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Ego
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Re: More on Microbiome

Post by Ego » Thu Dec 17, 2015 12:26 pm

http://arstechnica.com/science/2015/12/ ... s-obesity/

In a series of experiments in mice, researchers found that a common drug used to treat psychiatric illnesses, including autism and bipolar disorder, alters the gut microbial community. Those changes caused the mice to burn fewer calories while resting and gain weight, researchers report in EBioMedicine. The finding, which lines up with weight gain seen in patients, suggests that drugs other than antibiotics can easily mess with a person’s microbes, which in turn profoundly influence metabolism, weight, and overall health.

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Ego
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Re: More on Microbiome

Post by Ego » Thu Dec 17, 2015 9:25 pm

Ubiome normally charges $89 for their microbiome sequencing test kit but they have a special right now, three kits for $89. $29.33 each. It expires on Friday at midnight.

http://www.ubiomeblog.com/seasons-greet ... it-for-89/

Would anyone like to share a kit? I only need one. I can mail the other two to forum members in the US. You can send me a check/paypal/money order after you get the kit.

The posting on their blog states that the kits can be shared so I am assuming they would allow us to create three individual accounts. I've sent them a message to clarify. I won't buy it until I know for sure.

Anyone who wants in can post here.

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Ego
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Re: More on Microbiome

Post by Ego » Fri Dec 18, 2015 9:51 am

All three kits are spoken for. Thanks!

Slevin
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Re: More on Microbiome

Post by Slevin » Sun Dec 27, 2015 12:38 pm

@Ego, others in this thread: would anyone be interested in a mini-book-club discussion on "The Art of Fermentation" by Sandor Katz? Just picked up a copy and it looks like a nice thorough discussion on many of the bacteria associated with ferments as well as how to make a lot of different fermentations and their histories.

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Ego
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Re: More on Microbiome

Post by Ego » Sun Dec 27, 2015 1:22 pm

Absolutely! I just put the book on hold at the library.

Worldcat listing
https://www.worldcat.org/title/art-of-f ... ef_results

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Ego
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Re: More on Microbiome

Post by Ego » Wed Dec 30, 2015 4:55 pm

An excellent video on resistant starch and microbiome.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NI3KtR3 ... e=youtu.be

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GandK
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Re: More on Microbiome

Post by GandK » Mon Jan 04, 2016 8:54 am

Anyone want to be part of a U.S. Army study on this issue?

Per CNN: "The U.S. Army Institute of Environmental Medicine is looking for volunteers (PDF) to eat military food rations for 21 consecutive days for a study of the impact of Meals, Ready-to-Eat, or MREs, on gut health. Researchers want to learn how MREs influence the millions of bacteria in troops' digestive systems." Article here.

Compensation for the testing is"up to $200" in addition to the 21 days of food, per the study participation requirements (PDF). In addition to being younger than 62 and reasonably healthy, you'd need to be in reasonable travel distance of Natick, MA for testing there for "3 hours, 4 separate times" as well as a handful of other tests.

Slevin
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Re: More on Microbiome

Post by Slevin » Wed Jan 06, 2016 8:14 pm

A long documentary on one of Michael Pollan's books, In Defense of Food has a lengthy section at the end (starts around 1:22:00) about the human microbiome. Interesting stuff, and a pretty good watch overall while you are doing other things like cooking and exercising.

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Chad
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Re: More on Microbiome

Post by Chad » Thu Jan 14, 2016 8:52 am

Multiple generations of poor eaters may endanger our ability to even have a healthy microbiome.

http://www.latimes.com/science/la-sci-s ... story.html

NPV
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Re: More on Microbiome

Post by NPV » Sun Jan 17, 2016 3:11 pm

Quick question on uBiome. They have this special offer now:

http://www.ubiomeblog.com/january-5-for-1-sale/

Would it work to instead of sampling five sites, just divide this between 5 peopleto sample 1 site each? Or are the kits or interpretations site-specific?

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Ego
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Re: More on Microbiome

Post by Ego » Sun Jan 17, 2016 5:10 pm

I don't know the answer but I sent them the question through their online form. They seem to be responsive to social media so you might try their facebook page or twitter as the coupon code expires today.

I sent my sample in about ten days ago.... being processed.

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anomie
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Re: More on Microbiome

Post by anomie » Sat Jan 23, 2016 10:26 am

"Being Social May Help Spread ‘Good Bacteria,’ Boost Your Gut Microbe Diversity"
http://www.medicaldaily.com/being-socia ... ity-370076

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