Early Retirement Extreme Forums

Yeah, "We don't know..." is better than pretending they do know, but I wish we did know.

Here is an NIH study about the probiotics I mentioned previously:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26466123

Minor benefits in preventing body mass/fat accumulation on a high fat diet. Nothing earth shattering. I'm just happy this is drawing more attention.

Another NIH study on probiotics. This one tested a strain that reduced inflammation in mice, which extended their life span:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3156754/

First do harm. Infecting brain tumors with fecal bacteria causes the immune system to attack them.
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/ ... -the-brain

TedX talk on how our gut is our second brain.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awtmTJW9ic8

I'm still trying to figure out which prebiotics to add to my green smoothie. Some of the candidates:

leek, artichoke, agave, chicory, jicama (inulin and fructooligosaccharide)
bamboo shoots (xylooligosaccharides)
a variety of sprouted beans (raffinose oligosaccharides)
cocoa, tea, dark berries, (polyphenol catechin)
honey (Isomaltulose)
agar, green and brown seaweed

red seaweed has carrageenan which is a commonly used food thickener today (it is in most fake milks) and but some say it is tumor promoting in animal studies.

Good overview. I'm hitting a good portion of those prebiotics on his list, along with the normal probiotics (yogurt, pickels, kombucha, etc.). I haven't tried some of the ones on your list (bamboo, sprouted beans, and seaweed).

Chad wrote:Good overview. I'm hitting a good portion of those prebiotics on his list, along with the normal probiotics (yogurt, pickels, kombucha, etc.). I haven't tried some of the ones on your list (bamboo, sprouted beans, and seaweed).

How are you doing the kombucha? My mom used to keep one in a bowl on top of the fridge and take a shot doily.

I'm doing it the non-ERE way. I buy it:

http://synergydrinks.com/index.php/prod ... d-kombucha

I haven't gotten around to trying to make it myself. The tea is slightly sweet, but doesn't have a ton of sugar. It's kind of a treat for myself 1-3 times a week.

Ego wrote:First do harm. Infecting brain tumors with fecal bacteria causes the immune system to attack them.
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/ ... -the-brain

Shame they attacked that doctor. Having been in that exact same situation with my mother I don't think the doctor did anything wrong. The patient's family, on the other hand, is definitely in the wrong for attacking him after the procedure failed.

I'm always afraid to click on the links in this thread.

Do you grow your own sprouts?

Most probiotics aren't safe for celiacs (natural or supplements), especially if they're told to stay away from lactose as well. It's a weird problem that I haven't been able to solve adequately.

jennypenny wrote:
Most probiotics aren't safe for celiacs (natural or supplements), especially if they're told to stay away from lactose as well. It's a weird problem that I haven't been able to solve adequately.

Are most of the prebiotics safe for you? I hope so.

On a side note, I heard on the FoundMyFitness podcast that fish oil has been shown to increase the good bacteria. Unfortunately, it's been a while, so I don't remember the exact podcast. But, she is a Ph.d and I know it was either her or one of the scientists she has one that said it.

jennypenny wrote:
Do you grow your own sprouts?

Yeah, I just soak them overnight then let them sit at room temp for 24-36 hours. They begin to grow tails. I use very few. Maybe a small handful. My goal is a wide variety of different fibers. Since they're going into the vita-mush I don't really have to worry too much about taste.

I didn't know that celiacs can't do probiotics. Maybe you can supplement, ahem, at the other end of the system with some borrowed bugs.

Chad wrote:On a side note, I heard on the FoundMyFitness podcast that fish oil has been shown to increase the good bacteria. Unfortunately, it's been a while, so I don't remember the exact podcast. But, she is a Ph.d and I know it was either her or one of the scientists she has one that said it.

I read the same thing in several different studies. I try to get omega 3s from ground flax seeds but now that we're back in civilization I think I'll also try the algae grown omega 3s. But they're expensive.

Ego wrote: Maybe you can supplement, ahem, at the other end of the system with some borrowed bugs.

Ha! Not likely.

The few probiotics that are safe don't seem to be as effective. I upgraded to the liquid fish oil for my smoothies. Expensive, but I notice a difference.

jennypenny wrote: Ha! Not likely.

Aw come on. Somebody here has to go first.

not it

Just happened to see this today from Elena Verdú. Apparently she is the person to watch for the latest on celiacs and microbiome:

http://www.gutmicrobiotawatch.org/en/20 ... c-disease/

GandK wrote: We already have a vague sense that we should eat better and avoid GM foods and pesticides. It's tough (impossible?) to otherwise translate this information into concrete steps.

Nutritionfacts is doing a series on microbiome. He outlines the enterotypes in this video and compares African-Americans to native Africans.

http://nutritionfacts.org/video/whats-y ... nterotype/

Then he explains how to change your enterotypes in this one.

http://nutritionfacts.org/video/how-to- ... enterotype

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enterotype

I get what he's saying, but I have trouble reconciling that with the fact that many people (myself included) are much healthier on a paleo/lc/animal protein diet. I suspect that people who watch their diet enough to choose one and stick with it probably eat better overall even if their diet is full of animal protein, but still ... there has to be more to it than what he says.

The part where he says that our gut flora shifts quickly between the two diets was interesting. Maybe they'll find that the trick is to eat like we used to with IF/vegetarian grazing interspersed with protein gorges.

Well, you have to understand that the purpose of the nutritionfacts site is to encourage vegetarian or vegan eating habits, so all the research described is cherry-picked in that direction. The "cure" for most everything there is to "eat only plants and don't ever eat meat." Even to the point of recommending supplements over real food to deal with the likely nutrient deficiencies of such a diet that even Gregor acknowledges -- if you look close enough.

It's too bad they are not up front about it and just call the site "The Benefits of Plant-Based Diets" or something along those lines.

I wonder if the differences in gut flora he talked about in those videos are just a correlation and not the cause of diseases like colon cancer. Like everyone else I'm sure, I've known several people who've succumbed to colon cancer including DH's BF last year. Some were heavy, some thin; some were active, some not; some were drinkers or smokers, and some weren't. The only commonality among them was that they all had desk jobs. Makes me wonder if it's not the animal protein itself, but that we're not built to eat meat and sit all day. Maybe it's the combination of the two that's deadly.

@Dr. Ego--So what's the recommendation when someone is on antibiotics? I'm on another three-week stint and my stomach will be a wreck by the end of it.

@Ego: thanks for the links. I'm still trying to wrap my head around all of this.