Ultimate Stoic Frugality Challenge

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Ego
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Re: Ultimate Stoic Frugality Challenge

Post by Ego »

I'm glad it worked. It will be interesting to see if there is a difference in how you are treated with the ACA plan vs Medicaid.

Laura Ingalls
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Re: Ultimate Stoic Frugality Challenge

Post by Laura Ingalls »

Ego wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:54 pm
I'm glad it worked. It will be interesting to see if there is a difference in how you are treated with the ACA plan vs Medicaid.
I have visited my current family practice office having employer provided insurance, ACA, Medicaid and once with no insurance (eligible for cobra but never signed up). My parents have gone there with Medicare. I have never noticed a difference. One tiny data point

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mouseyo22
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Re: Ultimate Stoic Frugality Challenge

Post by mouseyo22 »

Try to join a study research fecal transplant. It might help you as long as you are in the study and they will either give treatment for free and/or reduce costs.
If you eventually reach a point where you need to carry a colostomy bag, remember it's not even noticeable if you position it right or create another distractor on your body. People look and remember themselves more than they remember you. That's what I have already told my uncle who has anal cancer and colostomy bag. They think people are laughing at them. Reality is people care very briefly and if you keep it cool then there's no problem. He is losing 9kg from depression and fear of eating anything because it will make the bag bigger. His wife now suffers from stress migraines because she wants to control everything he eats. They are going through the stages of Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression, and Acceptance. I suspect more bad news will come and upset their Acceptance stage though.

IlliniDave
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Re: Ultimate Stoic Frugality Challenge

Post by IlliniDave »

7Wb5,

Being quite focused on myself and my current little collection of shamefully first-world problems I overlooked this thread. I've shared the story of my aunt's frugality vs medical expense 'dilemma'. Seems as far as that goes you were able to find a similar solution in that the sticker price wasn't the last word on the matter. I hope the treatment works for you.

I've known a couple of people with autoimmune disorders similar to yours and recognize they are very difficult to live with, for one of them it is outright debilitating, and the "system" surrounding help for people with disabilities is still too narrow minded regarding people in that predicament.

Probably not of any use but the closest I have come to any sort of GI issues (once they plucked my ailing gallbaldder) I traced down to one food: rice. Specifically the "5-minute" parboiled variety. A rational explanation for that evades me, but my gut doesn't care about that. And the nutrition strategy my gut is happiest with is typified by what's known as the "Zone Diet" (although all the measuring is something I don't bother with). Lots of non-starchy vegetables and a decent portion of relatively lean protein. It took me quite some doing to give up my Captain Crunch addiction.

I realize you've pretty much eliminated dietary crafting as a management strategy, but I felt compelled to offer something potentially useful. Again, hope the drug therapy is effective.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Ultimate Stoic Frugality Challenge

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

@Ego@Laura Ingalls:

I actually believe my providers will be happier to process steamlined modern Medicaid over my high deductible ACA plan. It turned out to be my only choice in the maze of irrational-medical-market-reality, because GoodRx was no help, and direct discount through pharmaceutical company is available to those with up to 5X poverty level income, BUT only if they can't qualify for federal or state assistance programs. My further research indicates that what I am actually paying for is patented engineered release of encapsulated orally administered medication. If my disease goes into remission, I may be able to switch to less expensive version. OTOH, if I get worse, the next course drugs will likely be even more expensive.

@mouseyo22:

It is definitely my intention to become very knowledgeable and proactive on seeking treatment moving forward. I was only diagnosed around a week ago, so I am very much still processing through Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression, and Acceptance. Actually, in retrospect, I have been in Denial for over a year already, because I was being very much Ostrich with Head in Sand accepting so many intermittent horrendous symptoms as being likely with initial diagnosis of simple infected tear/injury. Like maybe I should have clued in when I started waking up in the middle of the night to poop. Hopefully, I will be in the 60% group of those diagnosed who are able to keep disease in mild/moderate stage and not have to have surgery. However, I am fretting a bit about the fact that I am experiencing some eye symptoms, because I read that some people have to have their colons removed to save their eyes.

@IlliniDave:

The disease is covered under Americans with Disabilities Act, but it is kind of tricky to figure out how to best accommodate. On one of the support groups I am now reading, retraining for work that can be done at home is recommended. Beyond having to finagle the associated expenses through the tangle of current U.S. healthcare system, the fact that I am used to being a self-employed-flexible-part-time-employed extreme generalist is actually helpful. For instance, I was counting on income from daily substitute teaching this fall for cash flow, but it won't be very difficult for me to replace that with virtual, or otherwise more flexible, hourly tutoring income. I already have a chemical toilet on site at my renovation/permaculture project, and if I have to run out of a hectic, lucrative book sale to find a restroom, there's only my opportunity cost to worry about. OTOH, the fact that this disease is keeping me chained to the bathroom during what are usually my most energetic productive hours of the day, and the pain/exhaustion is causing me to conk out faster than usual before the end of the day is a huge limiting factor on keeping my 5 or 6 balls simultaneously up in the air. The funny thing is that I am actually very emotionally/mentally happy and pleased with my current life design and future plans, so lately my days are kind of like those of a typical sick toddler. As soon as I am no longer feeling actively (and literally) crappy or in pain, I want to go out and play at my projects or with my friends, but then I fall over like a top a few hours later. Since I don't want "bad", and I can't and don't want to afford "expensive", I am now stuck with very, very "slow" as my overall modus operandi. I guess my flavor of Stoic is in alignment with actually feeling a bit like detached, amused objective observer simply wondering whether I can possibly keep all my balls in the air with such slow motion juggling.

I don't much mind you guys making dietary suggestions, because I already quickly went through that phase of Denial/Bargaining with this diagnosis myself. Maybe if I drink a gallon of ginger and turmeric tea every day! Recent experience and that shared by others on support group informs me that another new minor bane of my existence is that anytime I share this diagnosis with others, I am likely to hear something like "Oh yeah, my sister had that. She had to stop eating wheat." (sigh.) Also, the fact that I am a chubby pastry loving 56 year old is a very bad clue set, because disease much more likely to have much earlier onset in young fit humans (age 11 onset more likely than age 56) who often become quite underweight due to symptoms. Only small group becomes symptomatic in 50s/60s. It is not a lifestyle disease or a disease of impending decrepitude. Dressing myself in a Winnie the Pooh t-shirt and eating Captain Crunch for the first time in decades is how I exhibit phase of self-pity, but not at all likely to worsen the course of my disease. I am totally bloating up right now due to steroids, but weight-loss is likely to be the problem I wish I still had if the disease progresses.

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mouseyo22
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Re: Ultimate Stoic Frugality Challenge

Post by mouseyo22 »

As mentioned above, you can try joining clinical studies for Ulcerative Colitis in the US to bring down medical costs .https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/results? ... ype=&rslt=.
As for overcoming bodily pain without using opioids, historically the methods have been:
1) see sufferings as personal trials by God/the Creator
2) enjoy the pain as a born-masochist
3) wait for an even greater pain/trouble. I am not sure if there is a limit to pain so once you are tired of this one the bigger one might be around the corner.
4) going out in a blaze of martyrdom. How about volunteering to teach children in Gaza Strip?
5) going out simply without fuss

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Jean
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Re: Ultimate Stoic Frugality Challenge

Post by Jean »

If you need to wash gooey stuff from your butthole 8 Times a day, this cheap device could greatly improve your quality of life.
https://happypo.de/
You can Jerry rig something similar from a pet bottle by triming away thé edge of it's lid.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Ultimate Stoic Frugality Challenge

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

@mouseyo22:

I will definitely consider participating in clinical trials once I’ve done enough research to better understand the disease myself. I now realize that I was almost completely ignorant of the mechanisms of the digestive tract. For instance, I didn’t know that after food is digested in the small intestine, it is the very wateryconsistency of dirty storm water as it enters the large intestine, and pretty much the main function of the large intestine is to remove the vast majority of the water, eventually forming an approximately 12 inch long sausage diameter stool to be eliminated approximately once per day. I also didn’t know that a measurable percentage of your stool is actually composed of bacteria and excretions from the walls of the colon, so even if you have your colon removed, and just a few dead-ended inches of your rectum left in place, you may still form small stool and experience the nerve impulses associated with the urge to eliminate the stool.

1) Too agnostic/atheist for this.
2) Not the right kind of pain. I can consciously transmute pain akin to flick of cane into pleasure center, but not constant bothersome urge to evacuate bowels, ulcerative soreness, and radiating abdominal tenderness and distention.
3) I am somewhat morbidly curious about the various potentials for global shit-storm within my remaining lifetime.
4) I’ve already taught refugees from Yemen and walked from bus stop to tutor in worst neighborhoods in Detroit, and I was planning on teaching lead poisoning impacted kids in my new locale this fall, so no point in wasting plane fare to other disaster zone.
5) Going out simply without fuss was/is my plan for if 80 years old and cancer or equivalent. I now realize that I didn’t have great plan for 56 and it may make you miserable but won’t kill you. As I noted above, if $700/month is rational pricing/average cost going forward, then objective actuarial calculation would warrant paying for the treatment, because the productive asset that is me can still produce much more value than that. Of course, this directly leads one to the recognition that this is rational calculation (depreciation of productive vale of self) that is purposefully ignored in FIRE/ERE. This even applies to calculation of ecological footprint, because, for example, not using the embedded value of your training/education that has already been expensed is really no different than choosing to allow a tractor to rust in a barn. IOW, it’s a philosophical decision to not include this depreciation, not a 50,000 ft up objective rational systems observation or calculation. It is derived from philosophical stance that your labor or value as a laborer belongs to you and not any larger system, so if you want to let this value rust/depreciate in barn/on sofa, or invest it in hobby pleasure, or disagree with society on your most worthwhile use, that is your right.

Anyways, at this point in my research, the conclusion I’ve come to is that if/when it is 100% determined that I have ulcerative colitis rather than Crohn’s disease, either I should be able to switch to much less expensive medication once I am better under control OR I should probably stoic choose to just go ahead and have my colon removed. Unfortunately, my disease shows signs of both Crohn’s and ulcerative colitis at this juncture, and there is little point in prophylactic removal of colon with Crohn’s, because it can later pop up anywhere in digestive tract from mouth to anus. Most frequently it pops up in the ileum, which is the last section of the small intestine where fat and vitamin b12 are digested. I am currently b12 deficient, so I may already have some inflammation or damage in that region.

@Jean:

Thanks for the recommendation. I already have a watering can system in place.

mooretrees
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Re: Ultimate Stoic Frugality Challenge

Post by mooretrees »

I'm curious if you have moved outside Western medicine for help? Acupuncture can help reduce inflammation. Naturopaths have many different herbal concoctions that may or may not help. There is a movement in the acupuncture world for affordable clinics. Portland, OR has Working Class Acupuncture which lacks the whole meditative Zen experience (and the attached high dollar charge) and instead gives short affordable treatments. Lots of time with acupuncture, you need more sessions to help, so if it's affordable than you can actually go as many times as you need. I don't believe that homeopathic medicine is useful, but when I saw a naturopath years ago (at a school so cheap), they had a much more effective non prescription drug for painful oral herpes than the one anti-viral on the market. I understand that what you're experiencing is MUCH worse than an uncomfortable herpes sore on my lip, but they have different tools than Western docs. And before you remove part of your colon, it might be worthwhile to explore alternatives.

I think you are in Michigan? I found this page talking about community acupuncture. https://michiganacupuncturecenter.com/events/

Not sure if that is close to you, but the key is to search 'community acupuncture' and see what is close by. A quick search for naturopathic treatments for Crohn's disease suggested some food based cures (fermented foods and probiotics) and also biofeedback and acupuncture. I don't know if any of this is useful, but I'd be sure trying everything for relief. Good luck!

7Wannabe5
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Re: Ultimate Stoic Frugality Challenge

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

@mooretrees:

I’m open to trying different options. Acupuncture couldn’t hurt. According to the U of M video series I am watching, IBD patients should !!NOT!!use probiotics. It doesn’t hurt and can help to introduce novel bacteria to your intestinal tract IF the mucosal lining of your intestinal tract is healthy and intact. With IBD, the open ulcers and destruction of mucosal lining may allow introduced novel bacteria to increase inflammation in deeper layers.

Further interesting note is research indicating that humans who have metabolic syndrome and IBD actually do better than those without metabolic syndrome due to well-know general tendency of metabolic syndrome to blunt immune responses. Humans with IBD seem to have hyperactive TH1 defense mechanism. I am currently overweight but no indications of metabolic syndrome in my blood work etc., but does make me wonder again about pros/cons of Captain Crunch...

7Wannabe5
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Re: Ultimate Stoic Frugality Challenge

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

Gregory House on the topic:

https://youtu.be/ESoYS9SZW-4

Eureka
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Re: Ultimate Stoic Frugality Challenge

Post by Eureka »

UC or not, squatting while eliminating is generally very beneficial. A quick search on 'Squatty Potty' or 'squatting ibd' or similar will give lots of hits from scientific articles to testemonies. It makes a lot of sense (to me) and as there will be no negative side effects, why not give it a try.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Ultimate Stoic Frugality Challenge

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

@Eureka:

Can’t hurt! My bathroom is going to become a very luxuriously appointed room.

Salathor
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Re: Ultimate Stoic Frugality Challenge

Post by Salathor »

Eureka wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:46 pm
UC or not, squatting while eliminating is generally very beneficial. A quick search on 'Squatty Potty' or 'squatting ibd' or similar will give lots of hits from scientific articles to testemonies. It makes a lot of sense (to me) and as there will be no negative side effects, why not give it a try.
I don't want to get too personal, but when I was having some...issues...getting just a simple footstool to elevate my knees while going really really helped.

Western Red Cedar
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Re: Ultimate Stoic Frugality Challenge

Post by Western Red Cedar »

I kind of feel obligated to share this YouTube video at this point:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbYWhdLO43Q

7Wannabe5
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Re: Ultimate Stoic Frugality Challenge

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

@Salathor@Western Red Cedar:

Thanks for sharing and :lol: However, I feel compelled to note that the symptoms or effects of IBD are pretty much the opposite of constipation. Everything empties out faster than it is supposed to and in a more liquid state. The near constant urge to evacuate is caused my damage and irritation to pads and nerves which in healthy state allow you to feel fullness in rectum and also whether fullness is most likely gas, liquid, or solid. IOW, commencing to evacuate bowels while fully vertical and hastening to the toilet much more of an issue than need to assume ideal position to fully evacuate bowels.

For those of you interested in diving more depth into this disease which effects approximately 1/225 people in the U.S. or just learning a bit about how healthy digestive system functions, I recommend this video series from the U of M specialty clinic. Video 4 in the series, “What Causes IBD”, describes the “perfect storm” of unlikely factors which lead to being forever cursed with this disease. It’s actually kind of a good example of the difficulty of predicting emergent states in a complex system. We are more used to thinking in terms of examples where previously or retroactively recognized factors such as diet in diabetes 2 or subprime mortgage bundling in housing crash can be identified, but even factors that are very low risk when viewed as independent and isolated can not as infrequently cause major change in system when encountered or activated in tandem.



https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL818426534AC030E0

Now that the results of particular damage of my lung scan have also come back, it appears most likely that I was not exposed to Covid, but had the great poor fortune to suffer both initiation of IBD and exposure to a major fungal infection of my lungs in 2020. Actually, the lung infection can be second degree tied to Covid epidemic, because I am fairly certain that I got it from a motel air conditioner that was underutilized during shutdown. The problem with modern life is you could spend every waking hour analyzing and minimizing risk factors, but still never quite get a grip on further order effects on the overall system.

Toska2
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Re: Ultimate Stoic Frugality Challenge

Post by Toska2 »

5) Going out simply without fuss was/is my plan for if 80 years old and cancer or equivalent. I now realize that I didn’t have great plan for when I am 56".


Right. I was trying to convey that my plan was to die at 55. Wearing a colonoscopy bag at 56 doesn't seem so bad. A matter of perspective.

( I doubt this outlook helped in my dating life.)

7Wannabe5
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Re: Ultimate Stoic Frugality Challenge

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

@Toska2:

Gotcha. Yeah, I am likely to choose colostomy over 3 hours of abdominal pain and subsequent exhaustion every day. Also I do feel like I am generally in the “extra innings” phase of life, but might have more to do with fact that my youngest child is now over 30 than my own age. Planetary population concerns set aside, I find myself somewhat envious of the working class women my age I encounter at the free county beach who already have 3 or 5 grand babies. I’ve always preferred the notion of thoroughly using up all my body parts before I die as opposed to attempting to keep them in pristine condition. So, if plastic colon best allows me to keep using up my other parts, why not?

plow_2
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Re: Ultimate Stoic Frugality Challenge

Post by plow_2 »

Avoid Carrageenan gum, probably not the cause but will likely make the inflammation worse

ember
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Re: Ultimate Stoic Frugality Challenge

Post by ember »

Sorry you are going through this! I second the recommendation to try carnivore for a little while. Quite a few people with autoimmune issues seem to benefit from it and it doesn't have to be expensive if you stick to ground beef and eggs.

This guy has Crohn's and has a podcast about it https://permies.com/t/73817/kitchen/Exp ... -aka-Carb. It also might be worth having a look at https://nutritionwithjudy.com/gut-suppo ... right-now/

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