COVID topic vol 2

[Ego]

...they are more expensive and incorrect usage can result in either people being false reassured or unnecessary healthcare contact depending on the direction of error.

I bought the cheapest one I could find with the idea that I would create a baseline regardless of accuracy, assuming if it is incorrect it will be consistently wrong in the same direction. I keep it handy and test myself once a day. Generally I fluctuate no more than 3%. If I drop more than that I know something is up. If it continues more than a few hours I would have data I could present to my physician. I always measure 100% just after finishing my run or climbing three flights of stairs quickly so I wait for a sedentary moment to test. YMMV

[jacob]

We have one of these: https://zacurate.com/products/500dl-fin ... eter-black

Here's a really neat explanation of how it all works: https://www.howequipmentworks.com/pulse_oximeter/

[classical_Liberal]

...

[classical_Liberal]

...

[Lemon]

Pulse oximeters are notoriously inaccurate for monitoring purposes. Everything has to be just right to get accurate readings, inexperienced users and products that do not display waveforms increases inaccurate usage 100fold. In the hospital setting (in modern hospitals in the US anyway), they are now used in conjunction with respiratory pods that also continually monitors respiratory rate because SPO2 monitoring in itself is insufficient to get a good picture of patient respiratory status.

Never heard of respiratory pods. But yes totally agree.

[Ego]

@cL & @ZAF What might proof of vaccination look like? Most countries with national healthcare systems will have some standardized proof. Here in the US? Hah! It will probably be an entry on the WHO Carte Juane. Worst cast scenario would be a letter from your doctor.

@cL, does anyone you know have access to hospital letterhead?

[jacob]

@Ego - I figured it might be something like that. I didn't know that a Yellow Card was an actual thing. But, for example, to board an airplane, it would either require "proof of vaccination" (from some list of "approved" forms) or "proof of being virus free" (again from some list of "approved" tests).

It's my understanding that the US plan is to roll out the vaccinations mainly via CVS and Walgreen clinics and the likes, so it's hard to imagine that some kind of receipt from those two wouldn't cut it. Perhaps they issue a plastic card with your name on it after the second shot?---To be presented with your regular ID in those places that require it.

I don't really see this as being much different or more complicated than the usual circus of having to present a bunch of forms to get yet another form when getting e.g. a library card or a state ID.

When I got my permanent residence permit, I also had to go to three different doctors to prove that I didn't have HIV or tuberculosis---probably a bunch of other stuff too, but those are the ones I remember. The forms were sealed and then I had to submit those to the immigration services which in turn approved them. Likely, we'll see a "lighter" version of that process depending on the risk of whatever the activity is.

How do college freshmen prove that they've been vaccinated for mumps before getting admitted to the dorms? Probably same deal ...

[classical_Liberal]

...

[7Wannabe5]

Not so very long ago, men had to submit proof they were free of venereal disease in order to get a marriage license, but women didn’t.

[Ego]

Interesting

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/941492?src=

4 in 10 UK physicians polled said they would not get vaccinated.

[nomadscientist]

A massive rush to vaccine from for profit companies, with zero liability guaranteed. I can't imagine something could go wrong.

fwiw I think that the vaccines are all very likely* safe and that they all work about as well as claimed (but yes that includes eeeevil Russians).

Simply was flabbergasted at how the media was presenting AZN's very mediocre results as some kind of triumph (especially in the UK - invented here!). Maybe it annoyed me more than was really justified. I just hate being bullshitted.



*being infected with covid is also so very unlikely to kill under 40s though that they can rationally weigh the risks; I am certainly in no hurry to get this vaccine, but I want my parents to get it

[chenda]

Not so very long ago, men had to submit proof they were free of venereal disease in order to get a marriage license, but women didn’t.

Well obviously because women were all virgins until their wedding night

[Alphaville]

Well obviously because women were all virgins until their wedding night

[7Wannabe5]

@chenda:

Right. Also because not so very long ago majority of men had to spend some time in military where they shot you up with any vaccines they damn well pleased, but there weren’t any for.VD, which was obviously prevented from spreading in the U.S. by laws which are still on the books in some locales strictly limiting the number of single women who can reside together. My point being that government involvement in public health is hardly a new thing and, in fact, the very first human law probably had something to do with how far into the jungle you must go before you shit.

[nomadscientist]

AZN's claims are falling apart.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55086927

"Moncef Slaoui, the scientific head of the US's Operation Warp Speed - the programme to supply America with vaccines - told US reporters that the half-dose group only included people younger than 55."

The half (actually "half-ish") dosing was an implementation error, but the choice of a sample with almost no one susceptible to severe covid was part of the trial design. Nonetheless, this small sample size trial that produced an anomalously high success rate was described as "half dose" trial rather than "young people" trial - giving a totally wrong impression.

Not that I'm familiar with the law, but if I were day trading AZN I would be asking if this is securities fraud. It's certainly grossly dishonest in the everyday sense.

They also seem to have buried the results for two other sub-trials for unclear reasons.

[chenda]

Hopefully it will still prove a useful vaccine though once the subsequent tests are completed.

[Ego]

As I understand it, they are doing trials for the AZN vaccine in multiple locations including the UK, Brazil, India and the US, and they have not indicated which site was responsible for the lucky half-dose error. That information would be vital as different populations are reacting differently to the disease.

According to TWiV AstraZeneca requested guidance from the CDC as they intend to change the dosing as a result of the error.

In other news, I've been watching for a clinical trial of the BCG tuberculosis vaccine to prevent Covid. BCG seems to be unobtainable to everyone but frontline healthcare workers otherwise.

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/results? ... ity=&dist=

The hospital down the street is running both the Moderna and AstraZeneca trials among many other Covid related trials.

[Alphaville]

the problem with azn is not whether the vaccine is effective or not (it is), but just how effective.

if it comes down to 67% effective at $2.50 a dose then it’s still good enough to reduce spread beyond the 50%-effective cdc requirement, and many poor countries will be able to afford it and deploy it.

if it gets to reach 90% thanks to lucky experimental error with the dosage, then it’s a global street party and mrna makers will be left holding the bag with their price, distribution requirements, and mrna unknowns.

a lot of things get discovered by luck, like penicillin or post-it notes. of course most accidents are just accidents.

[Ego]

Supplies of Merck's Pneumovax 23 are running low in much of the world, though it is still available in the US for now.

https://theconversation.com/until-a-cor ... -19-147829

....pneumococcal vaccines afforded statistically significant protection against COVID-19. Nations such as Spain, Italy, Belgium, Brazil, Peru and Chile that have the highest COVID-19 rates per million have the poorest pneumococcal vaccination rates among both infants and adults. Nations with the lowest rates of COVID-19 – Japan, Korea, Denmark, Australia and New Zealand – have the highest rates of pneumococcal vaccination among both infants and adults.

A recent preprint study (not yet peer-reviewed) from researchers at the Mayo Clinic has also reported very strong associations between pneumococcal vaccination and protection against COVID-19.

-----

Regarding my post above about the location of the AZN vaccine trial dosing error.... It occurred in the UK, not India where the population seems to be somewhat less susceptible to Covid.

[Mister Imperceptible]

In Japan, in the month of October, more people died of suicide (2,153) than people have died of COVID-19 for the entire year of 2020 (less than 2,000). Thru October, over 17,000 people in Japan have committed suicide in 2020.