Are you an athlete? How do I become an athlete?

Health, Fitness, Insurance, ...
Alphaville
Posts: 1584
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:50 am
Location: Quarantined

Re: Are you an athlete? How do I become an athlete?

Post by Alphaville »

suomalainen wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 3:35 pm
RICE and all that.
not so quickly, anymore, these days...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyl ... story.html

suomalainen
Posts: 742
Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2014 12:49 pm

Re: Are you an athlete? How do I become an athlete?

Post by suomalainen »

yeah, I don't really ICE too much. But the R, along with some gentle exercises (walking) and stretches seems to do the most. Hot/cold bath/shower also feels amazing, but don't know if physiologically it speeds recovery at all.

Alphaville
Posts: 1584
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:50 am
Location: Quarantined

Re: Are you an athlete? How do I become an athlete?

Post by Alphaville »

yeah i thought i’d put that out for info update.

last time i pulled a calf muscle i didn’t ice, took no medicines, didn’t use compression bandage, resumed walking the next day, and the problem went away fairly fast in spite of it developing a pretty nasty hematoma from the torn fibers. i was surprised by the fast recovery and adaptation to moving with that swelling, but reasoned that we evolved to keep moving under minor injury conditions or we’d be extinct :lol: —i don’t know if it was the right thing to do but i had read that article and gave it a go. perhaps luckily, it got better instead of worse with zero treatment. i did stretch gently a bit as days went by but it was more instinctual than premeditated.

Alphaville
Posts: 1584
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:50 am
Location: Quarantined

Re: Are you an athlete? How do I become an athlete?

Post by Alphaville »

couple of extra notes (because this thread got me thinking a bit)

1) i just did this test and it rated me good for athletic throws (spot on, my high school days), bicycle sprinting (it’s how i roll) and wrestling (i hate the stench of other dudes, so pass, but don’t provoke me lol). see what it recommends for you, might be a fun idea.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-28062001

2) this book looks like a nice course i might want to rent some day (because $$$, and science gets updated over time so no use owning). supercomplete really: https://www.amazon.com/Principles-Athle ... 259824004/

Scott 2
Posts: 1603
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:34 pm

Re: Are you an athlete? How do I become an athlete?

Post by Scott 2 »

@Alphaville - Before lifting weights as my primary exercise for 25 years, I did have more aptitude for endurance sports. Still not competitive, however. My fastest mile was somewhere between 6 and 6:30. For awhile, I'd regularly jog at a 6mph pace for 1h+. Longest distance was 10 miles, though honestly, I didn't train up to it. I simply refused to quit. I couldn't do stairs for several days afterwards. These days, I'm content with a moderate walk.

My Mom was a regionally competitive marathoner, did Boston a couple times. Had she quit smoking, she probably could have competed nationally. Seeing the impact on her body, I can't say I am drawn to endurance sports. I'd also rather live and look like a powerlifter, than a runner.

I did a semi-deep dive into the fitness stuff during college. Worked in a gym, got a couple personal training certs, read a bunch of books, etc. I earned the ACSM cert that requires a college degree and _almost_ went into the industry. Fortunately, the financial lure of computer science got the better of me. Personal training was a fun hobby job, but would have been a _terrible_ career for me.

In hindsight, I wish I'd put that energy into training at a hardcore strength gym, instead of catering to middle aged women at the Y.


@Jacob - I've heard rumor stimulants are used for the extreme lifts like Hall's deadlift. Having watched his documentary, I'd believe it. He's a great example of how high level athletic performance has nothing to do with health.

I've read mixed perspectives on the dangers of holding the breath as you strain - a Valsalva maneuver. The strongman favored using it on pretty much every rep. For me personally, after playing around with it a little, I decided it was not worth the risk. I don't like the way it feels, and I'm just doing this for fun. I do generally favor "breathing behind the shield," to throw a Pavel reference out there. The grunts when I try hard enough feel more primal. It's like my thinking brain turns completely off, and all I experience is the straining. It is meditative, in a way.

mooretrees
Posts: 363
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:21 pm

Re: Are you an athlete? How do I become an athlete?

Post by mooretrees »

One area I don't think I've seen mentioned is that athletes can obtain a certain level of fitness and skill and occasionally enter in a flow state during their sport of choice. I've had it happen a few times during soccer matches, it was intoxicating, I literally felt no physical boundaries. I do that that state is available to anyone of any skill level.

While there's been a lot of talk about how hard athletes work, there hasn't been any mention of the joy of moving as an athlete. I mean that place where you are fit and skilled and the deep satisfaction one can get from using your body. I still get that nowadays even though I'm just doing a hike or video class. I think that satisfaction can be had by anyone, but that folks who did sports or hard physical work at a younger age know in a deeper way how good and worth it physical fitness is.

7Wannabe5
Posts: 6297
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:03 am

Re: Are you an athlete? How do I become an athlete?

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

@mooretrees:

I agree, but I often get some flak when I suggest that the same holds true for sex.

Scott 2
Posts: 1603
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:34 pm

Re: Are you an athlete? How do I become an athlete?

Post by Scott 2 »

mooretrees wrote:
Fri Oct 09, 2020 7:44 am
there hasn't been any mention of the joy of moving... I think that satisfaction can be had by anyone
This is a great point. Movement for the sheer pleasure of using your body is wonderful. For the non-athlete, I do think it is easier to find without the pressure of competition, comparison or achievement. It is freeing to feel at home in your body.

Alphaville
Posts: 1584
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:50 am
Location: Quarantined

Re: Are you an athlete? How do I become an athlete?

Post by Alphaville »

@scott2 - ah, so you train “against type” so to speak. makes sense to pursue well-rounded fitness over competition wins in overspecialized discipline.

@mooretrees - there can be a lot of enjoyment in training and play & competition, but this has to be hedged against damage & wear & tear. this is due to multiple conflictive incentives. “staying healthy” “winning” “money and prizes” “beat the world record” etc etc. sometimes, the endorphins can be an addiction in itself—e.g. i’ve known a person who kept alcoholism at bay by running—alcohol ofc triggers endorphins.

@7w5 - looks like you are an athlete after all :D

7Wannabe5
Posts: 6297
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:03 am

Re: Are you an athlete? How do I become an athlete?

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

@Alphaville:

Sadly, I am now put out to pasture, but in my prime I was compared to Zenyatta on the track.

Alphaville
Posts: 1584
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:50 am
Location: Quarantined

Re: Are you an athlete? How do I become an athlete?

Post by Alphaville »

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Fri Oct 09, 2020 2:49 pm
@Alphaville:

Sadly, I am now put out to pasture, but in my prime I was compared to Zenyatta on the track.
i had to google “zenyatta” and...

:lol: :lol: :lol:

internet hi fives

mooretrees
Posts: 363
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:21 pm

Re: Are you an athlete? How do I become an athlete?

Post by mooretrees »

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Fri Oct 09, 2020 1:30 pm
@mooretrees:

I agree, but I often get some flak when I suggest that the same holds true for sex.
Ha ha, made me remember a young coworker who had a big fling recently and was literally hobbling around work the next day. She was very sore, but happy :lol:

jacob
Site Admin
Posts: 12753
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:38 pm
Location: USA, Zone 5b, Koppen Dfa, Elev. 620ft, Walkscore 73
Contact:

Re: Are you an athlete? How do I become an athlete?

Post by jacob »

To bring it back to the OP, there's been a lot of talk of how hard, healthy, or nice it is to be athletic. That's not really what I meant by metaphor. Think of athletics as a set of skills when it comes to human body movement (strength, power, stamina, endurance, dexterity, agility, coordination, ...) Athleticism is unconscious competence of that skill set. It's easy to imagine someone with few to no such skills: Perhaps they can only walk short distances, lift objects from the floor to the table weighing less than 10 pounds, and throw tennis ball a distance of 15 ft not hitting what they aim at. There are many skills they lack and thus many solutions that do not occur to them for any problem that a human body could solve.

Athletes will practice a certain skill (for example) in detail (clean and press a 150lbs weight) or in general (e.g. an agility ladder). Non-athletes just "work out". From this perspective an athlete is well-rounded and capable of doing many things with their body. To the extent a flow state is involved, the body and mind are just completely synced up---the body is not telling the mind "I can't physically do this" or "I'm exhausted, it hurts, please stop" and similarly the mind is not telling the body "Remember that the knee stays behind the toes with 60% weight on the front left ..." because the body just knows. From this perspective, taking up a very specialized sport won't make you athletic in the same way that a more general sport will. Compare e.g. running to basketball.

What I mean by comparing this to ERE is that the practice and development of a wide set of skills and putting them together similarly opens up a much [combinatorily] larger solution space that one becomes unconsciously competent in. It is different from "earn more, spend less, save more" kind of "work out" of ordinary FIRE.

7Wannabe5
Posts: 6297
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:03 am

Re: Are you an athlete? How do I become an athlete?

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

@jacob:

I was being more than a bit silly, but the more serious thoughts I was having were:

1) Yes, but everything a human does, a human does with their body. In fact, according to Lakoff, it is even the case that every thought we have can be broken down into metaphors directly related to the composition and capabilities of the human body. For instance, my DD29 is a born "crafter", she had great skill and dexterity in her hands at a much younger age than most children and she still "has to craft" in order to maintain good mental health, but she worries about being obsessed with such activities as making mobiles rather than focusing on her career.

2) Dance might be a better analogy for the whole of human endeavor, because it also incorporates music, art, relationship as well as extreme muscular competence. IOW, although these times they be a changing, sports or athletics remains a very "masculine energy" focused analogy. It is generally the case that "sports" are a model or practice space for warfare or hunting and/or a substitute for the muscular/biochemical channels initiated by these now more archaic activities. This is why it is commonplace to suggest that kids should play sports instead of video games, rather than, for instance, practice ballet rather than play video games.

3) I was severely asthmatic as a child, so although I was enrolled/encouraged by my parents in wide variety of physical activities; everything from jazz dancing to track to junior bowling league, the immediate negative feedback of having to use my inhaler due to exercise induced asthma greatly inhibited my enthusiasm. So, grain of salt ;)

4) I actually do believe that modern humans can develop similarly sub-par habits in the realm of sexuality. Perhaps even more so due to the fact that development of healthy sexuality is less widely encouraged. Simple example would be that long-standing habit of masturbation can lead to inability to ejaculate in any other position.

Alphaville
Posts: 1584
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:50 am
Location: Quarantined

Re: Are you an athlete? How do I become an athlete?

Post by Alphaville »

ah it was maybe not a metaphor but an epic simile to the nth power.

eg from the iliad (thanks duckduckgo)

As when in the sky the stars about the moon’s shining
are seen in all their glory, when the air has fallen to stillness,
and all the watch places of the hills are clear, and the high shoulders,
and the ravines, as endless bright air spills from the heavens,
and all the stars are seen, to make glad the heart of a shepherd;
such in their numbers blazed the watchfires….


so:

“as when the athlete...

[vivid poetic description]

... so does the ere practitioner....” etc etc.

i just thought of the funny idea of transposing the whole ere book into verse. this probably has to do with the fact that i haven’t had breakfast yet. verse helps memory though, in the oral tradition.

jacob
Site Admin
Posts: 12753
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:38 pm
Location: USA, Zone 5b, Koppen Dfa, Elev. 620ft, Walkscore 73
Contact:

Re: Are you an athlete? How do I become an athlete?

Post by jacob »

@7wb5 - I intended for the athlete metaphor, like all metaphors, to convey how a highly developed complex ability is experienced. Athletics just happen to be highly visible in its results compared to e.g. intellectual development or emotional intelligence. Of course, when the question is what it feels like to be an athlete, the metaphor fails ... but of course the answer is that it feels like ERE WL6+ except with your body.

For sure, people tend to develop in the direction in which they're naturally talented and away from those they're not lest they're forced in another direction by their environment or personal history. That's the nature/nurture thing. This thread (starting here viewtopic.php?p=121271#p121271 ) was particularly interesting as we got things quantified for athletic ability as well as intellectual, health, and charismatic ability. I could have picked another example for my metaphor.

What was interesting to me in that thread as someone with very limited charisma compared to e.g. you or GandK was the difference in kind rather than degree. See viewtopic.php?p=121362#p121362 and maybe viewtopic.php?p=121365#p121365 ... (and some ego-justification here: viewtopic.php?p=121342#p121342 ... I think you're doing the same thing for burpees ;-) ).

In particular, as skill-sets develop, they follow the CCCCCC-progression ... An athlete is an example of someone who physically operates at C5 or C6 compared to someone who is content to "stay in shape" at C4 or "getting in shape" at C3 or less. ERE focuses on the same level of development---the last two C's---when it comes to "living well" compared to standard personal finance or FIRE which is more about copying examples, marking checklists, and tips&tricks.

white belt
Posts: 108
Joined: Sat May 21, 2011 12:15 am

Re: Are you an athlete? How do I become an athlete?

Post by white belt »

As others have hinted at in here, I think being in an athlete really helps the individual to better connect to his physical body. In my experience working in the tech industry, there are a lot of sedentary folks who live their entire life digitally/intellectually, essentially never interacting with the physical world other than to sit in their car, at their desk, or on their couch at home. Then they complain about how they are unhealthy and in pain. I think athletics forces one to confront one's own physical strengths, limitations, etc. We see this in other realms as well; in a previous thread I believe Jacob talked about how many software developers cannot grok that the physical world has physical limitations.

I agree that there is a tradeoff between health and athletic success at the highest of levels, but most folks aren't going to ever achieve that level. Depending on how genetically suited you are to a particular sport, you can successfully compete at the local level and regional level of a sport without having to resort to extreme measures and risks. I think too many people resist athletics because they see professional athletes with health problems and read an article about overtraining and decide it's not worth the risk. Take the Eddie Hall example: he is certainly sacrificing his health for athletic success, which is what you see at the highest of every level of sport. Keep in mind that he is on a cocktail of performance enhancing drugs to include anabolic sterioids, which along with having a variety of cardiac and endocrine risks, also means that he has more muscle than what is naturally genetically attainable, which translates to being able to lift more weight. However, he still has the organs, joints, ligaments, and tendons that he was born with, which means his body has to contend with the increased load his muscles are now capable of lifting.

I think calling oneself an "athlete" is beneficial for a certain type of person and forces them to really change their habits to accommodate this new label. I see it as similar to other realms of ERE where a person may be an entrepreneur, portfolio manager, farmer, woodworker, etc all at the same time.

Edit: Additionally, a major pet peeve of mine is the false dichotomy between being intelligent and athletic. You can be both, yet much of society assumes that if you're a jacked guy, you must be a meathead.

7Wannabe5
Posts: 6297
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:03 am

Re: Are you an athlete? How do I become an athlete?

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

Well, if you are working full time and working out enough to stay jacked then it seems like hours available to read books would be limited. OTOH, if you are at least semi-retired then you could have enough time to stay jacked and read books. I think that approximately 30 hours/week of challenging reading/associated writing/thinking would be necessary to achieve athlete of erudition standard.

Of course, some people also associate large breasts with lack of intelligence, but, obviously, since breasts are mostly composed of fat, they do not require the maintenance hours necessary for bulging guns*, so less rational prejudice.

*I even like just typing it!

User avatar
Dream of Freedom
Posts: 568
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:58 pm
Location: Nebraska, US

Re: Are you an athlete? How do I become an athlete?

Post by Dream of Freedom »

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:21 am
Well, if you are working full time and working out enough to stay jacked then it seems like hours available to read books would be limited.
There is no reason you can't workout and while reading audiobooks. I do it all the time. And if you have a mundane task at work that doesn't require your full brainpower you can do it there too.

7Wannabe5
Posts: 6297
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:03 am

Re: Are you an athlete? How do I become an athlete?

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

True, but there is a limit to this sort of cross-training at higher levels where both activities demand more focus. OTOH, being expert at best organizing time and environment might be the Uber-skill.

Post Reply