COVID-19

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George the original one
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Re: COVID-19

Post by George the original one »

theanimal wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 8:33 pm
and the travel ban from Europe.
Excluding England/Great Britain... I don't know, maybe because they had that whole Brexit thing so they're no longer part of Europe?

Trump is closing these gates waaay too slowly. He's totally ignoring the fact that the virus is on the loose inside the USA and the administrations guidelines (not taking charge, mind you, but merely guidelines) doesn't limit travel inside US borders. You'd think we would have learned from the Lombardy quarantines that you have to do it early to have a chance. We're now 15 days after the Lombardy lockdown and still ignoring internal transmission, so it's not going to even be slowed down.

Taken more seriously? Yes, people know today that WHO declared it a pandemic and Trump addressed the nation.

Jin+Guice
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Re: COVID-19

Post by Jin+Guice »

This shit is wild, New Orleans declared a state of emergency today. I went to the grocery store (fully stocked except bleach wipes and hand sanitizer). People were partying in the streets almost comically (this is normal for March though, it's the nicest month of weather here). Yesterday I worked, all of the NURSES were complaining about people taking the disease seriously and shit getting cancelled. I asked the surgeon what he thought would happen, "I think it will blow over, I hope they don't cancel jazzfest." I lost a little faith in humanity on that one.

Also, thanks to this forum for being an excellent resource. Thanks to y'all I have stayed ahead of the curve on stocking up on food. I was also 90/10 VTSAX until last year when I cashed out because I lost faith in that plan, largely based on discussions I had here.

Many of my friends are concerned about losing revenue (for more than a week!) and being able to pay rent. ERE has paid of big time in the face of this pandemic.

Jean
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Location: Switzterland

Re: COVID-19

Post by Jean »

I think i got it last week, flu like symptômes, weird head diziness, Bad cough. My mom got similar symptômes with a much worst cough (1 week in bed with a lot of mucus in lung). She got better and temporarly stoped smoking. Others relatives had no symptômes. My main concern are my grandma (she seems do to fine now), and my tenant not getting a job due to the economical chaos.

thrifty++
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Joined: Sat May 23, 2015 3:46 pm

Re: COVID-19

Post by thrifty++ »

Trumps decision to close off Europe seems a bit foolish. There is already heaps of virus in USA anyway, that horse has already bolted. The economic consequence of all this border shutting will be significant. It would make more sense for NZ to shut Europe and Asia off given that we have only 5 stagnant isolated cases reported for ages, but that's not happening.

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Ego
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Re: COVID-19

Post by Ego »

Credit where credit it due. Trump got health insurance companies to waive copays and costs associated with Covid-19 treatment.

They spent a lot of time in the Clade-X Pandemic Exercise discussing whether border closures work. It seemed like all the pandemic pros in the exercise agreed that it did not work and was counterproductive. I understood why it might cause problems but never quite grasped why they felt it didn't work. I have to admit, I have only made it through the third video so far, They may explain more in the next video. It seems that we have now blocked Europe? Europeans? Those flying directly from Europe? Those who have been to Europe?

I will have to start watching Clade-X again as real life is catching up with where I left off...

onewayfamily
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Re: COVID-19

Post by onewayfamily »

Someone asked for a population adjusted chart a few pages back:

https://twitter.com/SMerler/status/1237 ... 04673?s=20

Image

Seppia
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Location: Italy

Re: COVID-19

Post by Seppia »

chenda wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 4:36 pm
@Seppia - How rigorously do you think this be enforced ? Can/will Rome assert its authority down south over local mafia businesses and the like ?
There’s police and the military deployed in the streets.
They were already stopping cars yesterday and asking for the self-certification of very important work or family matters.
I’m thinking this will be tightened up today.

So technically if one wants to cheat, he/she can do it: you just need to download a form and state a very important + time sensitive work or family matter.

Lying could put you in jail though, so institutions don’t take this lightly, plus everybody from politicians, celebrities, etc are constantly on TV hammering the messages of
Stay at home
Wash your hands
Etc

Mafia people I suppose are as scared of the virus as the general population: they’re criminals not idiots.

The overwhelming majority will comply.

EMJ
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Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 6:37 pm

Re: COVID-19

Post by EMJ »

AnalyticalEngine wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 5:50 pm
Crowding into the stores always struck me as a bad idea due to the need to avoid crowds.

I had a job interview today and the recruiter was complaining that the company was going to quarantine him after his grand cross country trip. I had to shake his hand then shake hands with the whole team. It was nice knowing you all...
Lots of alternatives to shaking hands:
https://www.nrk.no/video/51d7661b-67d8- ... 699730d11e

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C40
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Re: COVID-19

Post by C40 »

I'm being very lazy by asking this, and maybe it is too earlier to be able to predict.. but you folks know a lot more than me so far, so I'll ask

I'm trying to decide between going back to the U.S. now, or staying here in Vietnam. I've nearly decided to go back to the U.S. I have some personal notes - sets of pros and cons for both staying and going back to the U.S.

What I want to ask you folks is - what do you project the atmosphere being like after about 6 months? My assumption or guess is that the initial spread will be very rough, and then maybe after that, once many people have had the virus once, things may calm down and now we have something similar to our previous 'normal' - which is the old normal plus something like another flu but much deadlier, though life goes on fairly normally. But how long will it take to get back towards normalcy?

Will
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Re: COVID-19

Post by Will »

Good to hear that things are still relatively under control in your part of Italy, Seppia! I think the steps the country is taking now are a good move, though it will obviously hurt the economy. The same goes for Denmark.
In the Netherlands, as far as I can see, most people are reacting with a business as usual approach. Even our national health agency says it's ok to go to work if you have a slight cold, unless you are living in Noord Brabant (the hardest-hit province). My father is organizing a cultural festival in 2 weeks, which will be chock full of old people. I repeatedly asked him to consider cancelling it, after which he called the health agency. They told him they do not see a reason to cancel it at this moment..
I'm not sure if the other European countries ex Italy, Hungary and Denmark (and maybe the UK?) take this pandemic seriously, but here they don't. The government advised the population to stop shaking hands, but apart from this they did nothing.

IlliniDave
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Re: COVID-19

Post by IlliniDave »

I watched the president's address last night. First time I've done that in many, many years.

It would have been better to shut down more travel sooner, but he got a lot of flack for putting the China restrictions in place very early on. The latter bought us some time and the former if done sooner would have bought additional time. Better late than never. I don't quite understand the Great Britain exception--could be post-Brexit the admin feels GB has reasonable measures in place.

I don't know how much efficacy readily available loans will have, but the gesture is better than funneling barges of cash to Wall St and letting small businesses and individuals take it on the chin.

I don't know but imagine his call for non-partisanship has already been politicized. :lol: Listening to the radio earlier his description of covid-19 as a "foreign" virus (I don't remember what he said specifically but I wasn't paying 100% attention) is getting some hyperbolic reaction. I think the point is that even the newer hot spots in the US are traceable to foreign travel, so temporarily curtailing overseas travel makes sense.

My only criticism of the gov'ts response is we seem to be slow about ramping up the degree of screening. The caveat regarding the latter is that I'm not in the medical business, so am completely ignorant of best practices for these types of situations. As a lowly engineer my mentality is more data is generally better than less data (assuming the data is accurate).

In my work domain (my employer and others whom I have contact with) basically shut down overseas travel last week. This week internal measures are rolling out. Severe curtailing of in-person meetings (what will Megacorp America do without endless inane meetings?). Severely curtailing visitors at facilities/on campuses. Canceling all non-business-essential events. "Dry runs" of work-from-home days to test the viability of that mitigation step being employed to reduce disruption. Stuff like that.

What really alarms me long-term is what I've heard about our massive dependence on China for medical supplies (especially prescription drugs and antibiotics). Doesn't help that they (allegedly) threatened to cut us off recently. Some corporate cabal really sold us down the road there. That needs to be fixed. Really our whole supply chain needs to be retooled from a strategic rather than short-term financial perspective.

bostonimproper
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Re: COVID-19

Post by bostonimproper »

@Ego AHIP (the health insurance lobby) spokesperson made a statement to Politico reporter that they have agreed to cover “For testing. Not for treatment.”

Looking at AHIP's response, it's unclear whether they have committed to covering in-patient cost-sharing. Board of Directors statement says "1. Work with public and private-sector partners to implement solutions so that out-of-pocket costs are not a barrier to people seeking testing for, and treatment of, COVID-19. We will cover needed diagnostic testing when ordered by a physician. We will take action to ease network, referral, and prior authorization requirements and/or waive patient cost sharing."

However, if you look at list of actions insurers have decided to commit to, it indicates they will cover (to varying degrees for each insurer) testing, early refills on prescription drugs, and telemedicine/urgent care for patients. Three mention covering emergency room visits: BCBS of MA, BCBS of CA, Emblem. No mention of inpatient care.

Not to say that covering testing and preventative measures isn't a huge first step, but I do worry if people need to go to the ICU whether or not they'll actually be able to have it fully covered by insurance (or whether they'd know if it wasn't) .

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Ego
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Re: COVID-19

Post by Ego »

@BI, that will teach me for looking hard to find something positive.

The physician in charge of coordinating ICUs in Lombardy.

https://youtu.be/9mrPHO-nkVE

CajunQueen
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Re: COVID-19

Post by CajunQueen »

I'm seeing mixed reactions to this virus. Most people are annoyed by the inconvenience and point to statistics that more people die of other things than have died so far... The only people who seem concerned are people who do math for a living. I definitely think that normalcy bias and the difficulty conceptualizing exponential growth are leading people to pooh-pooh concerns. I do hope Flatten The Curve becomes a new national mantra. https://tenor.com/view/flattening-the-c ... f-16533560

Source: https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/09-03- ... anageable/

ZAFCorrection
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Re: COVID-19

Post by ZAFCorrection »

I do math for a living (well, engineering with a lot of data analysis), and I'm not particularly worried. I have a decent amount of food stored and I am 30 with no underlying medical issues. My biggest worry is avoiding hospitals for the next couple months. If history is any indicator, that should be easy.

That's a reasonable attitude for a lot of people, so I'm not a huge believer in the "only smart people are freaked out" narrative which has been expressed here at least a couple times. I'd say the bigger factor is the global pandemic is a Noah story, and now we are starting the second act. Except it's the discount version, so the idiotic townies are stockpiling bottled water and Noah gets to chill because his N95 stockpile will slightly reduce his risk of catching a disease that in rare cases will make him pretty sick.

FRx
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Location: Portland Or

Re: COVID-19

Post by FRx »

@c40 It would make the most sense to be either in a country where you'll be totally left alone (if you're relatively healthy) and where there isn't a lot of corruption or better to be in a country where you have a ton of public health support and a strong gov't. Vietnam and the US fall into both of those categories so I can't imagine that you'll go wrong either way.
But generally I'd say stay put since this will blow over.

Jean
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Re: COVID-19

Post by Jean »

@c40, where would you rather be if for some reason, you'de have to stay there forever, because no planes are flying anymore and pirates are faring the seas again?

ertyu
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Re: COVID-19

Post by ertyu »

Jean wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 9:37 am
@c40, where would you rather be if for some reason, you'de have to stay there forever, because no planes are flying anymore and pirates are faring the seas again?
This was essentially my criterion when making the decision. With unpredictable travel restrictions in place, I'd rather be close to my elderly parents who may not have much left. Thus I returned to country of origin even though my personal outcome salary + healthwise would've been in country of employment.

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Ego
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Re: COVID-19

Post by Ego »

The "foreign virus" comment from the Presidential address rolled around in my head as I slept last night. I could be wrong but It felt like he was laying the groundwork for something.

China has been reducing the amount of US government debt it buys. I believe that reduction accelerated recently with the trade troubles. They now own about 5% of the debt if you factor Hong Kong's share into it.

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Ego
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Re: COVID-19

Post by Ego »

Fábio Wajngarten, President Jair Bolsonaro’s communications chief, was at Mar-a-Lago, Mr. Trump’s oceanfront resort in Florida, as part of Brazilian government delegation. Members of that group dined with Mr. Trump (and Pence, Ivanka & Jared) on Saturday.

Mr. Wajngarten tested positive for the virus after returning home with flu-like symptoms.

Photo from Wajngarten's Instagram account of the meeting. He is the guy next to Trump wearing the "Make Brazil Great Again" hat.

Image

ETA:The New York Times removed the paywall for all Coronavirus coverage.
https://www.nytimes.com/news-event/coronavirus

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