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Re: COVID-19

Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 3:56 pm
by thrifty++
@August - Its that I don't want to get sick in a cold damp place when lots of other sick people are around. Im generally fit and healthy and well under 50, but I also do have some health issues with a sleeping disorder. But I am probably ok. Maybe I am over-reacting to it all. Very depressing looking at this with winter ahead really.
I had actually thought of the caravan idea also. Was another thing I was thinking of. Wont be able to get anywhere warm in it though

Re: COVID-19

Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 4:02 pm
by ZAFCorrection
I know what I want to be doing if trying desperately to get to Australia during an impending apocalypse.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glI2JHeX5XE

Re: COVID-19

Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 4:37 pm
by AnalyticalEngine
Here's a pretty cool site where you can track the shift and drift and mutation of the virus: https://nextstrain.org/ncov

Re: COVID-19

Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 4:41 pm
by CS
AnalyticalEngine wrote:
Fri Feb 28, 2020 9:59 am
On the Spanish flu, I suggest the book "Pale Rider: The Spanish Flu of 1918 and How It Changed the World".
Thanks for the book recommendation. I'll check it out.

Re: COVID-19

Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 4:44 pm
by AnalyticalEngine
The "minor" cases involve a wide range of clinical symptoms, including "mild" pneumonia. It basically just means you don't have to be hospitalized. It definitely doesn't mean you get just cold symptoms. Basically 5% are critical, which means dead without life support. 15% are severe, which means supplemental O2. 80% are "mild," which includes everything from asymptotic infection to laying in bed for 2 weeks with a high fever, "mild" pneumonia, and being basically unable to move. There's a strong argument for not wanting the flu from hell even if it doesn't kill you. :lol:

Re: COVID-19

Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 4:52 pm
by Dream of Freedom
Augustus wrote:
Fri Feb 28, 2020 3:50 pm
If you're under 50, what specifically is it that you're afraid of though?
You can spread it before you even know you have it. So even if you will be alright doesn't mean you won't give it to someone who could die. So I wouldn't just throw caution to the wind.

Re: COVID-19

Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 7:00 pm
by classical_Liberal
Lucky C wrote:
Fri Feb 28, 2020 6:29 am
I'm sorry I can't find the story but I read yesterday that US hospitals are at about 95% capacity due to the abnormally high flu now whereas they are normally at 80-90%. If the peak in the US occurs in the summer that should be good timing, but if you get it before the peak that is when I think you would have the most risk of not getting enough care.
Just another comment to help avoid over pessimism or panic. I'm not in healthcare management, so I can not speak to actual numbers or percentages here. However, anecdotally I can say that a large percentage of US hospital beds are used for things like day surgeries, or elective procedures that require an overnight stay. There are also many other procedures that are needed, but not emergent. Meaning that, if need be, these resources can be reallocated to handling emergency situations. I'm not saying an outbreak of COVID-19 won't tax the medical infrastructure, but what I am saying is that we shouldn't make judgements of hospital capacities in emergencies based on normal, daily activities.

Another thing on this note. Generally, a great number of hospital beds are being used by people who have exacerbated chronic conditions to the point they need the care. If you are truly concerned about this, one thing you can do is make sure that family and friends who have chronic disease are managing them well. Like, check in on grandma who has CHF and make sure she doesn't decide now is a good time to go to the all-you-can-eat pizza buffet and sodium/fluid overload herself. Make sure she understands her doctors health maintenance instructions. Or make sure grandpa the diabetic has enough of his medication and doesn't only have a freezer full of ice cream to eat, etc.

Re: COVID-19

Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 7:06 pm
by jacob
Augustus wrote:
Fri Feb 28, 2020 6:53 pm
I would love to see data on that.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavir ... ographics/

0.2% ... so ~twice that of measles iff you get sick. FWIW, getting measles used to be a regular thing for us older individuals. I've had it, for example. It sucked even if it didn't kill. I know only one person who had severe complications (my neighbor). She ended up spending months in the hospital. Otherwise, it was fairly normalized.

Re: COVID-19

Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 7:31 pm
by 5ts
Table 41. Community hospital beds and average annual percent change, by state: United States, selected years 1980–2016

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hus/2018/041.pdf

NOTES: Community hospitals are nonfederal, short-term, general and special hospitals whose facilities and services are available to the public. The types of facilities included in this category have changed over time.



Hospital Statistics by State - Statistics for non-federal, short-term, acute care hospitals are summarized by state.

https://www.ahd.com/state_statistics.html



Hospital occupancy rate in the U.S. from 1975 to 2017

https://www.statista.com/statistics/185 ... ince-2001/

Re: COVID-19

Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 7:44 pm
by AnalyticalEngine
Two new cases in Santa Clara, California. We're up to three community transmission cases. https://abc7news.com/health/additional- ... -/5974170/

Press conference (sorry for the Facebook link :| ): https://www.facebook.com/abc7news/video ... cation=ufi

Highlights:
1. Wash your hands
2. Don't touch your face
3. Three cases are epidemiological unlinked
4. Recommending social distancing for employers (telecommuting, etc)
-- Don't specifically suggest immediate social distancing but suggest preparing for future continuity plans
5. Have a family preparedness plan for if you can't leave home for a week or two
6. CDC confirms virus can live on surfaces "more than days"
-- However person to person transmission is still most common route
7. CDC says Santa Clara lab has testing capacity now, and they're sending out more test kits as we speak
-- Hoping commercial tests become available
-- 8 Public health labs that conduct testing in CA now ready
-- Turn around time of 48 hours or less
8. Mostly concerned about "high risk contacts" first, like household members
-- Contact tracing is very resource intensive
9. Declared local public health emergency earlier in the month

Also, I did not know measles had a CFR of 0.1% for adults. Interesting how that's actually decently high for prior healthy adults, yet enough people forget how horrible measles is and insist the vaccine is worse to the point measles came back to the US. :?

ETA: @c_L - I don't work in medicine, so now you've got me curious. How big of a problem are these poorly managed, chronic conditions in terms of taking up hospital resources? Are these people not following doctor's directions to manages their conditions or are these people with undiagnosed conditions that go catastrophic?

Re: COVID-19

Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 8:03 pm
by classical_Liberal
@AE
Again, it's not my job to know large statistical groups here. Anecdotally my answers would be:
AnalyticalEngine wrote:
Fri Feb 28, 2020 7:44 pm
How big of a problem are these poorly managed, chronic conditions in terms of taking up hospital resources?
A large problem.
AnalyticalEngine wrote:
Fri Feb 28, 2020 7:44 pm
Are these people not following doctor's directions to manages their conditions or are these people with undiagnosed conditions that go catastrophic?
There are both. The former is worse. Edit: In fairness, I think the medical field could probably do more at the primary care level to help with some of the "noncompliance", with better education, more resources and monitoring. Also, sometimes chronic disease exacerbates even with full compliance. It's disease afterall.

Re: COVID-19

Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 8:51 pm
by shemp
Seen on Telegram (I can't embed the image because more than 800 pixels high):

https://i.imgur.com/D7Q0b3M.jpg

Meanwhile, I'm doing everything wrong if this disease really is serious. Just flew to Europe, planning on further flights in May, August, November, dependent on hotels being open and supermarkets for daily food. Unable to stockpile more than 7 days food because I'm hiking in the mountains.

My whole lifestyle of permanent travel is very fragile and I've long known it, but being in one location bores me. Probably should either buy a van and confine my traveling to the USA (not to excited) or move permanently to a small town in Ukraine or Bulgaria and then travel from there. But that will have to wait until next year.

Re: COVID-19

Posted: Sat Feb 29, 2020 7:22 am
by Ego
Plot twist. Covid-19 may have been circulating for weeks in Italy (and US?). We didn't know about it, the theory goes, because we couldn't test for it.

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... ssion=true

Re: COVID-19

Posted: Sat Feb 29, 2020 8:21 am
by Lucky C
Not news to me after seeing in the past several weeks multiple plausible accounts of Americans going to the doctor with a good match of the symptoms, testing negative for the flu, and being sent home with just an antibiotic prescription or whatever. No Wuhan contact = no test, reassurance that they can't have COVID-19. The CDC are only starting to roll out serious testing now. Not sure if their updated test kits are actually reliable yet.

So many exciting realities in this Choose Your Own Adventure!
If you'd like to believe it will run its course by summer and its impact to GDP will be exactly -0.251%, turn to page 42.
If you'd like to believe it's less deadly than the flu and a Democrat hoax, turn to page 101.
If you'd like to believe it's an incurable bioweapon that will kill 5% of the population, reinfect, and kill a greater percent ad infinitum, and China is incinerating people while they're still alive, turn to page 666.

Re: COVID-19

Posted: Sat Feb 29, 2020 12:36 pm
by Gilberto de Piento
I was out at two big box home stores today to buy house project supplies, both were out of masks and goggles and had limits on how many masks you could buy if any came in. If there is anything you need buy it now. That said, don't be the person who buys a pallet of whatever just to hoard it. Supplies are going to be limited, don't make it worse than it has to be.

I had a good talk with some people today about Y2K. I forgot about it and how scared many people were. It was a different problem to prepare for though.

Re: COVID-19

Posted: Sat Feb 29, 2020 3:39 pm
by Sclass
I just got back from Harbor Freight Tools. One pair of goggles left. Lots of wrap around safety glasses but I wanted the full on lab goggles with the strap. They’ll be good for cord trimming if I survive.

Interesting theory about COVID 19 being around for awhile. My gut feel (and the bits of news) is that it is already out and circulating in California. I saw an interview with a Davis student and she said several students are sick at her dorm under self quarantine. No test of course because this is California where we only have 200 test kits.

I doubt the disease has been lingering long though. The rate at which it has multiplied on the Diamond Princess and in Seoul suggests that once it in here it makes itself known by quickly multiplying and creating a local transmission crisis. This thing spreads and grows exponentially. I honestly think the fact the ERs aren’t filling up with pneumonia cases in California is because it is just starting to gain a foothold.

Or maybe the ERs are overrun and they’re not reporting on it?

Well, given the case in Davis and the Santa Clara community transfer I think it’s just a matter of days before we see some signal popping out of the noise.

Re: COVID-19

Posted: Sat Feb 29, 2020 6:41 pm
by jacob

Re: COVID-19

Posted: Sat Feb 29, 2020 7:16 pm
by bostonimproper
That's quite the provocative title for what amounted to moderate flu-like symptoms. Was worried there would be a twist about the grandmother.

Re: COVID-19

Posted: Sat Feb 29, 2020 8:40 pm
by Gilberto de Piento
Sclass wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 3:39 pm
Harbor Freight Tools.
You're definitely going to die if you are using Harbor Freight PPE. :lol: ;)

Re: COVID-19

Posted: Sat Feb 29, 2020 9:06 pm
by AnalyticalEngine
First US death, I think in Washington state? Looks like there's a confirmed case of a nurse from a retirement home. They're now testing the entire home for covid because a lot of the residents have developed flu like illness. Yikes!

Press conference: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u8_4iyPMkoY

EDIT: Press conference is telling residents of Washington state to prepare to stay within their homes/social distancing and that they should stock up on food. They're considering canceling large public events if it gets worse. They have improved testing capacity now in Washington state.