COVID-19

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CS
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Re: COVID-19

Post by CS »

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2 ... ower-says/

Officials at the Department of Health and Human Services sent more than a dozen workers to receive the first Americans evacuated from Wuhan, China, the epicenter of the coronavirus outbreak, without proper training for infection control or appropriate protective gear, according to a whistleblower complaint.

The workers did not show symptoms of infection and were not tested for the virus, according to lawyers for the whistleblower, a senior HHS official based in Washington who oversees workers at the Administration for Children and Families, a unit within HHS

Also, emphasis mine:

After their deployments, the workers returned to their normal duties, some taking commercial airline flights to return to their offices around the country, the lawyers said.

AnalyticalEngine
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Re: COVID-19

Post by AnalyticalEngine »

A heads up that the "33 in California" headline is a bit misleading. That's counting existing patients in quarantine from the plague ship, not any new cases.

Gilberto de Piento
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Re: COVID-19

Post by Gilberto de Piento »

CS wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:10 pm
Officials at the Department of Health and Human Services sent more than a dozen workers to receive the first Americans evacuated from Wuhan, China, the epicenter of the coronavirus outbreak, without proper training for infection control...
It's like something from the start of a pandemic movie. It sounds like the whistleblower is now being attacked too.

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Ego
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Re: COVID-19

Post by Ego »

theanimal wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:51 pm
The initial responses were making fun of my statements and then I was told I was part of the problem and am spreading hysteria.
In their defense, it can be hard to distinguish between group hysteria and an event that warrants legitimate attention. It is also hard to recognize the opposite, when our own passivity is the result of contagious passivity...

The Smoke Filled Room study (pdf).
In their seminal smoke-filled room study, participants waited in a room that gradually filled with smoke. A participant either waited alone, with two other naive participants, or with two confederates who ignored the smoke and stayed in the room. Seventy-five percent of the solitary participants reported the smoke, whereas only 38% of the participants who were with other participants and only 10% of the participants who were with confederates did so. The results established that the passive behavior of bystanders exerts a negative social influence on evacuation behavior.

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jennypenny
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Re: COVID-19

Post by jennypenny »

Our friend in the affected part of China said tonight that life is 'going back to normal little by little.' She also said things feel under control now. That's very good to hear.

@chenda -- Thanks. The foot and wrist healed but the elbow didn't. I'm supposed to have Tommy John surgery in May but I can wait if the virus is bad.

AnalyticalEngine
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Re: COVID-19

Post by AnalyticalEngine »

The lack of testing in the US is quite concerning. With epidemics like this, you really need to nip the initial cases in the bud least they be allowed to balloon like we saw in Wuhan. But they're not testing enough people, which means we could easily have community transmission in several major US cities all at once here in a few weeks because we're not detecting this now. I mean, even now, the government is blocking travel to China, but not Italy, Japan, or SK, and China had even put Wuhan inside a sanitation cordon.

Even in the early days of this epidemic, the #1 thing WHO/public health experts were wanting was a point of care diagnostic. So the inability of the US to test massive amounts of people, especially at this early state, is not reassuring.

There was a similar problem in the US during Spanish flu where each city/state operated on its own, which lead to inconsistent implementation of public health measures and therefore wildly different health outcomes across the country. I'm seeing this problem locally right now. Some employers have plans in place, others don't. Some schools and hospitals are planning for this while others are not.

Gilberto de Piento
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Re: COVID-19

Post by Gilberto de Piento »

Is there anything we can learn from China as far as what to do or not to do beyond the typical guidance like wash your hands, social distancing, etc.? Unexpected things that became unavailable, something like that.

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Sclass
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Re: COVID-19

Post by Sclass »

AnalyticalEngine wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:41 pm
The lack of testing in the US is quite concerning. With epidemics like this, you really need to nip the initial cases in the bud least they be allowed to balloon like we saw in Wuhan.
Disturbing. Gavin Newsom implied that we have a problem when he said CA has only 200 test kits. He looked pretty concerned. Finally. It’s funny how everyone (except the fine people here) was in denial up to now. Even the market held fast till this week. The writing has been on the wall for weeks. The CDC acts so confident but I think they’ve really dropped the ball. Only time will tell if they are monumentally incompetent.

I hit several grocery stores this week and boosted my food buffer from several weeks to several months. The cashiers were looking at us shaking their heads like we are crazy. Now I turn on the TV tonight and ABC news says stock at least 2 weeks of food and medicine. I’m going down to Walmart tomorrow just to see the crowd...from a distance.

ertyu
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Re: COVID-19

Post by ertyu »

Gilberto de Piento wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:51 pm
Is there anything we can learn from China as far as what to do or not to do beyond the typical guidance like wash your hands, social distancing, etc.? Unexpected things that became unavailable, something like that.
a broad spectrum antibiotic - no one thinks about what comes -after- pneumonia.
also, for some reason, HK went mad about toilet paper in particular.

theanimal
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Re: COVID-19

Post by theanimal »

Gilberto de Piento wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:51 pm
Is there anything we can learn from China as far as what to do or not to do beyond the typical guidance like wash your hands, social distancing, etc.? Unexpected things that became unavailable, something like that.
There was a report that came out in The Lancet describing issues health workers had. The report has since been retracted, which some believe is censorship from the CCP.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lang ... lltext#%20

From the original:
The conditions and environment here in Wuhan are more difficult and extreme than we could ever have imagined. There is a severe shortage of protective equipment, such as N95 respirators, face shields, goggles, gowns, and gloves. The goggles are made of plastic that must be repeatedly cleaned and sterilised in the ward, making them difficult to see through. Due to the need for frequent hand washing, several of our colleagues' hands are covered in painful rashes. As a result of wearing an N95 respirator for extended periods of time and layers of protective equipment, some nurses now have pressure ulcers on their ears and forehead. When wearing a mask to speak with patients, our voices are muted, so we have to speak very loudly. Wearing four layers of gloves is abnormally clumsy and does not work—we can't even open the packaging bags for medical devices, so giving patients injections is a huge challenge. In order to save energy and the time it takes to put on and take off protective clothing, we avoid eating and drinking for 2 hours before entering the isolation ward. Often, nurses' mouths are covered in blisters. Some nurses have fainted due to hypoglycaemia and hypoxia.

In addition to the physical exhaustion, we are also suffering psychologically. While we are professional nurses, we are also human. Like everyone else, we feel helplessness, anxiety, and fear. Experienced nurses occasionally find the time to comfort colleagues and try to relieve our anxiety. But even experienced nurses may also cry, possibly because we do not know how long we need to stay here and we are the highest-risk group for COVID-19 infection. So far 1716 Chinese staff have been infected with COVID-19 and nine of them have unfortunately passed away. Due to an extreme shortage of health-care professionals in Wuhan, 14 000 nurses from across China have voluntarily come to Wuhan to support local medical health-care professionals. But we need much more help. We are asking nurses and medical staff from countries around the world to come to China now, to help us in this battle.

ertyu
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Re: COVID-19

Post by ertyu »

They sent in the military in the end. There was a video of them getting trained and putting hazmat over their fatigues. Respect to the nurses of Wuhan and everyone who went and joined in, either voluntarily or "voluntarily." All those "it's just the flu lol you overreactin'" are gonna eat their words - even though I wish it would somehow mutate enough that they won't have to.

thrifty++
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Re: COVID-19

Post by thrifty++ »

Fuck! Its in NZ now too finally.
This is going to be the worst place in the world to be as we will be heading into winter in May while the rest of the world is going into summer (or stays warm all year). Its going to able t run rampant here in NZ until we hit summer again all the way in December!!!

Its going to be hideous here. Thinking of going to my second country before winter starts - or go somewhere warm in Aussie for four months to ride it out

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national ... spartandhp

classical_Liberal
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Re: COVID-19

Post by classical_Liberal »

Just to bring a bit of an optimistic tilt to this whole thing. If it is indeed being transmitted via community in the US now, the timing is pretty good. Seasonal flu tapers off by April, which frees up medical resources even if transmission of COVID-19 doesn't. Although it's probable the season will help elongate the infection curve. As others have pointed out, minimizing the overtaxing of the medical infrastructure will significantly improve outcomes and reduce mortalities. Despite inferences to the contrary, IMO, the US medical system is significantly more effective than China's. Notwithstanding the amazing devotion of Chinese nurses.

Lucky C
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Re: COVID-19

Post by Lucky C »

I'm sorry I can't find the story but I read yesterday that US hospitals are at about 95% capacity due to the abnormally high flu now whereas they are normally at 80-90%. If the peak in the US occurs in the summer that should be good timing, but if you get it before the peak that is when I think you would have the most risk of not getting enough care. After the peak there may be a little more capacity but on the other hand a lot of Chinese doctors and nurses have been getting sick and dying, including young ones!

I will have an urge to self-quarantine my family as much as possible in the coming weeks. I think we will have a decent local window of opportunity to avoid this thing since I'm currently staying home and my wife is only working a few days a week, and we don't have any plans to go into the nearby cities in the foreseeable future. She was thinking about quitting her job in a few months but is the type who would hate giving short notice and leaving her team short-staffed, so it might be tough to time it right. If there is a confirmed case in a city near us (meaning maybe 10 or 100 unknown infected), I would think the odds would be in her favor that she would still avoid getting infected working two more weeks in the suburbs.

What might become a popular strategy in suburbia USA is to use grocery delivery services to minimize exposure, assuming self-quarantine before any major food shortages or impact to these kinds of services. Even better, get a delivery of non-perishable food and leave it someplace safe untouched for a couple weeks before cracking it open.

wolf
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Re: COVID-19

Post by wolf »

I started prepping a few years ago. Now I know why prepping makes sense.

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Ego
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Re: COVID-19

Post by Ego »

classical_Liberal wrote:
Fri Feb 28, 2020 1:20 am
Despite inferences to the contrary, IMO, the US medical system is significantly more effective than China's. Notwithstanding the amazing devotion of Chinese nurses.

Knowing your levelheadedness and the fact that you are one of the few people here who will actually be on the front lines, your optimism makes me feel good. Thanks for that!

Jean
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Re: COVID-19

Post by Jean »

I bought one additional week of food. Shelves were especially full. I imagine people aren't panicking.

CS
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Re: COVID-19

Post by CS »

Gilberto de Piento wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 7:20 pm
It's like something from the start of a pandemic movie. It sounds like the whistleblower is now being attacked too.
Yes, the whistle blower was attacked. They were reassigned and would have lost their job if they didn't take it. Clearly retaliatory.

Now all information is going through Pence. I don't want to take the time to dig up all the links on his incompetence for the HIV crisis while in Indiana. It is looking more and more like a banana republic here.

Another forum I spent a lot of time talked about how there was a lot of government lying about what was really going in the 1918 Spanish Flu pandemic and this contributed to the problem, and the spread. I don't have a reference for this so would be interested in learning more if anyone here knows about that. If I have time I'll do some research.

Personally, I'm rooting for a big recession in Q2 so we have a chance of getting flipping the leadership in the States. The dropping stock market is giving me hope. The epidemic/pandemic team leadership has been decimated in the last two to three years and the best of hope of restoring that is by ousting the people who ruined it. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump ... emic-team/
“Trump also cut funding for the CDC, forcing the CDC to cancel its efforts to help countries prevent infectious-disease threats from becoming epidemics in 39 of 49 countries in 2018. Among the countries abandoned? China.” That information was confirmed by 2018 news reports stating that funding for the CDC’s global disease outbreak prevention efforts had been cut by 80%, including funding for the agency’s efforts in China.

CS
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Re: COVID-19

Post by CS »

Jean wrote:
Fri Feb 28, 2020 8:50 am
I bought one additional week of food. Shelves were especially full. I imagine people aren't panicking.
Same here in the Midwest. I was surprised. I think the stores are planning for a rush. My folks are dragging their feet ("but I get 5% more discount if I wait until next Tuesday.") Discount or not, I'm not waiting for them.

Actually, they are probably not wrong about their not risking running into lockdown problems, but they are risking more exposure. We aren't testing enough. I'm betting a good portion of the US population will have this virus before we have a clue, sentinel deaths or not. South Korea is shooting for testing 200,000 people this week(!), while the flipping US can't even get their shit together for working test kits.

The people in Milan probably would have thought a lock-down not possible too.

I have four parents in their mid seventies, plus my own asthma. This whole thing is filling me with dread.

AnalyticalEngine
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Re: COVID-19

Post by AnalyticalEngine »

Seconding ego, I appreciate your perspective c_L. It's good to hear from people who will actually be on the ground.

On the Spanish flu, I suggest the book "Pale Rider: The Spanish Flu of 1918 and How It Changed the World". The US government did indeed censor news about domestic flu in order to boost war morale and make their enemies look bad. That's why it got named "Spanish" flu despite not starting in Spain. Being neutral in the war, Spain didn't censor the papers and therefore appeared to be suffering worse than other countries. But in reality that wasn't true.

I went to Costco yesterday, and everything shelf stable (canned goods, rice, etc) was nearly out of stock. Medicines and latex gloves and TP and bottled water was also dwindling. Pretty shocking considering this is the suburbs of Denver, but people here seem to be taking it seriously. Best prepare before the rush.

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