COVID-19

Health, Fitness, Insurance, ...
User avatar
Ego
Posts: 4490
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:42 am

Re: Wuhan Coronavirus

Post by Ego »

Okay, I am convinced. I will reluctantly refrain from licking elevator buttons.

So it looks like the pandemic is coming. Imagine you've been transported back to the first week in January. You live in Wuhan. And you know what you know today. You can't leave the area. You know the pandemic is coming. What do you do?

Here is the official party line: https://www.ready.gov/pandemic

Additions?

jacob
Site Admin
Posts: 11755
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:38 pm
Location: USA, Zone 5b, Koppen Dfa, Elev. 620ft, Walkscore 73
Contact:

Re: Wuhan Coronavirus

Post by jacob »

@Ego - I'd add a supply of cheap masks.

We already do everything the DHS advises constantly. That way we don't have to stress out or stand in line to create a new system when "panic is declared". It also works well during non-pandemics. Like one doesn't have to go shopping after running out of food stuffs.

During the pandemic, we'd just not leave the house. DW can work from home. Ditto following this advice albeit to a smaller degree during non-pandemics also serves to keep you healthier.

I've started following pretty much that list since I got interested in this stuff a few years ago. (Before that I was blissfully ignorant ... understanding germ theory in theory but not really relating it to anything in personal practice. E.g. knowing that the cold is a virus, but not thinking about the physical mechanism, gladly shaking hands with anyone who had the cold.)

We're a good test case since I don't leave the house very often and DW leaves for public transport and an open-office daily. This means that it's usually DW dragging something home who is my only/main vector. When this happens, we practice a form of isolation. No touching. I sleep on the couch to avoid spending all night breathing on each other. We're not to the point of wearing masks, but "social distancing" + the "don't touch the face"-policy to the extent it's been practiced has been very effective. I haven't caught anything from her since the behavioral change, whereas that was common before. Indeed, the only incident over the past few years was when MIL came to visit with a bad cough after a bout of pneumonia having been informed by the doctor that it was non-infectious so no particular precautions were taken. This turned out to be wrong. Both DW and I caught it (upper respiratory tract) within a day of each other and could thus compare disease progression notes.

User avatar
Ego
Posts: 4490
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:42 am

Re: Wuhan Coronavirus

Post by Ego »

I see that remdesivir and chloroquine are effective anti-virals being used successfully in a test tube against 2019-nCov

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41422-020-0282-0

Both are prescription, but I believe plain old quinine has a similar anti-viral effect to chloroquine. Opinions?

Perhaps a run for the border is in order.

ETA, there are several herbs with antiviral properties with oregano oil at the top of the list. I frequently see cases of oregano oil at my distributor. May have to pick up a case.

5ts
Posts: 56
Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2019 2:43 pm

Re: Wuhan Coronavirus

Post by 5ts »

You can't extrapolate drug activity in vitro to in vivo. But some antivirals or other meds will probably work, just have to test them in people. At least there is no reason to assume that no antiviral or some unknown med could work.

I take general precautions at all times for a few reasons, and once you get in that mindset you notice, or at least I notice, how often people are walking around hacking and sniffling and sneezing in public. And how often they don't cover their mouths when hacking all over the place. I wish masks would catch on outside of Asia.

AnalyticalEngine
Posts: 139
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2018 11:57 am

Re: Wuhan Coronavirus

Post by AnalyticalEngine »

They're actually already doing randomized trials with those antivirals in China. It's a little surprising how fast they were able to spin up the randomized trial study, but it's already underway. So while the in vitro study is questionable, we should have real data soon if they make a difference.

They also have a vaccine candidate under trail in mice already :shock: At least that's what the coronavirus task force said in their public briefing yesterday. Still I wouldn't hold my breath on the vaccine because spinning up massive manufacturing takes time, and they'll probably distribute it to health care workers first. (You may want to hold your breath so you don't inhale the virus :lol: )

I wouldn't put any stock in herbs saving you. This is the novel coronavirus pandemic, not just a cold. Social distancing, hygine, and good nutrition are your best bets.

And if it comes to your town, hide inside. :shock:

I'm a little shocked I have friends and family members still planning extensive international and national travel in spite of the virus. Maybe I'm just being paranoid, but I refuse to step foot on an airplane or boat until this is over. It's hard to practice social distancing when everyone around you enjoys licking airplane seats and coughing in the open office. :?

You saw this in the Spanish flu too. People still went to movie theaters, church, etc despite germ theory being discovered at the time. I guess the lesson learned is life still goes on during a pandemic, and that spreads it further.

User avatar
Dream of Freedom
Posts: 450
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:58 pm
Location: Nebraska, US

Re: Wuhan Coronavirus

Post by Dream of Freedom »

In an article reporting on a study on the spread of the virus:
Many of them — 41 percent — were presumed to have caught the virus in the hospital, including 17 people who had been admitted for other illnesses, and 40 health care workers.
The patient who infected so many health workers had been placed in a surgical ward because of abdominal symptoms, and the coronavirus was not initially suspected. Four other patients in that ward also contracted the disease, presumably from the first patient.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/07/heal ... ients.html

Hospitals are a good place to catch a disease, especially during a pandemic.

AnalyticalEngine
Posts: 139
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2018 11:57 am

Re: Wuhan Coronavirus

Post by AnalyticalEngine »

Have any of you noticed the droves of conspiracy theorists coming out of the woodworks about ncov? My least favorite one has got to be that the Gates Foundation released the virus on purpose in order to sell vaccines. Or people complaining that WHO isn't running around like a headless chicken yet. :? It's gotten to the point where I don't even try to correct the "it's just the flu" people because I'd rather have them than the anti-WHO panic crowd. I've read a few books on the topic of disinformation, but I have never seen such a vivid example of the dangers personally.

5ts
Posts: 56
Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2019 2:43 pm

Re: Wuhan Coronavirus

Post by 5ts »

Anything medical related is a prime candidate for ignorance because not many people are trained in the field yet everyone on the planet has an expert opinion. Some examples are some person got the flu from the flu vaccine, homeopathic remedy cures cancer, medications cause the disease which they are designed to treat, and full blown conspiracy theories.

So I am not surprised about the general ignorance and I ignore anyone who doesn't know what they are talking about. If they don't have some type of medical training then it's autoignore.

User avatar
Dream of Freedom
Posts: 450
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:58 pm
Location: Nebraska, US

Re: Wuhan Coronavirus

Post by Dream of Freedom »

Well, in the past the conspiracy theorists would blame witches, poisoners, the devil, or the wrath of gods. Now they blame any number of organizations that could have released the disease. That doesn't mean it couldn't of happened, but the more things change the more they stay the same.

User avatar
Dream of Freedom
Posts: 450
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:58 pm
Location: Nebraska, US

Re: Wuhan Coronavirus

Post by Dream of Freedom »

;) OTOH conspiracies aren't just about the origen of the virus. China has a tight control over it's citizens speech. The number of infected could be under reported and those 4 hospitals could be more akin to lazarettos. I guess some of them are more plausible than others.

User avatar
Ego
Posts: 4490
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:42 am

Re: Wuhan Coronavirus

Post by Ego »

AnalyticalEngine wrote:
Sat Feb 08, 2020 10:08 am
I wouldn't put any stock in herbs saving you.
Agreed. Nor would I. But a lot of people will be looking for things to buy online that will ease their anxiety. I wish I had a truckload of this right now. The media has begun to demonize my entrepreneurial spirit. Fortunately the case of masks I bought are expired (why do surgical masks expire?) so I don't feel too bad. I did a lot of searching today and didn't see any oils or pills made from herbs that claim antiviral activity.

User avatar
Dream of Freedom
Posts: 450
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:58 pm
Location: Nebraska, US

Re: Wuhan Coronavirus

Post by Dream of Freedom »

Ego wrote:
Sat Feb 08, 2020 7:23 pm
I did a lot of searching today and didn't see any oils or pills made from herbs that claim antiviral activity.
Just for fun I googled it.
There are no specific treatments for CoV infection and preventive vaccines are still being explored. Thus, the situation reflects the need to develop effective antivirals for prophylaxis and treatment of CoV infection. We have previously reported that saikosaponins (A, B2, C, and D), which are naturally occurring triterpene glycosides isolated from medicinal plants such as Bupleurum spp. (柴胡 Chái Hú), Heteromorpha spp., and Scrophularia scorodonia (玄參 Xuán Shēn), exert antiviral activity against HCoV-22E9.[14] Upon co-challenge with the virus, these natural compounds effectively prevent the early stage of HCoV-22E9 infection, including viral attachment and penetration. Extracts from Lycoris radiata (石蒜 Shí Suàn), Artemisia annua (黃花蒿 Huáng Huā Hāo), Pyrrosia lingua (石葦 Shí Wěi), and Lindera aggregata (烏藥 Wū Yào) have also been documented to display anti–SARS-CoV effect from a screening analysis using hundreds of Chinese medicinal herbs.[15] Natural inhibitors against the SARS-CoV enzymes, such as the nsP13 helicase and 3CL protease, have been identified as well and include myricetin, scutellarein, and phenolic compounds from Isatis indigotica (板藍根 Bǎn Lán Gēn) and Torreya nucifera (榧 Fěi).[16,17,18] Other anti-CoV natural medicines include the water extract from Houttuynia cordata (魚腥草 Yú Xīng Cǎo), which has been observed to exhibit several antiviral mechanisms against SARS-CoV, such as inhibiting the viral 3CL protease and blocking the viral RNA-dependent RNA polymerase activity.[19
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4032839/

Of course that is about sars coronavirus not the current version.

User avatar
Ego
Posts: 4490
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:42 am

Re: Wuhan Coronavirus

Post by Ego »

@DoF, Ah, I meant to say I searched with my regular suppliers. I spent the morning digging through boxes of Costco, CVS, Whole Foods and Walmart shelf pulls. There is one guy who I see on Sundays who fills a box with what he calls "new age crap", scratch and dents items from Amazon and Whole Foods. I have high hopes that some of your Traditional Chinese Medicine items will be in there.

thrifty++
Posts: 903
Joined: Sat May 23, 2015 3:46 pm

Re: Wuhan Coronavirus

Post by thrifty++ »

After seeing the death toll has now surpassed SARS and the number of infections are well in excess I caved in and bought a n95 mask. On visiting a couple of pharmacies I discovered they were sold out, so obviously a number of people are concerned about it. I had to go online to purchase some. I notice that NZ's equivalent of e-bay is filled with opportunistic shit bags trying to resell masks they bought probably quite recently. People who have shit trader history or no trader history at all. So I didn't buy from any of them. There was only one reputable trader to buy from, which is unusual. So I bought from them

User avatar
Ego
Posts: 4490
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:42 am

Re: Wuhan Coronavirus

Post by Ego »

Demand at Wuhan hospitals for oxygen is 10X capacity.

Oxygen concentrators can be had on craigslist right now for 2-5% of the retail price.

thrifty++
Posts: 903
Joined: Sat May 23, 2015 3:46 pm

Re: Wuhan Coronavirus

Post by thrifty++ »

@ego - why would you want one of those?

classical_Liberal
Posts: 1251
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2016 6:05 am

Re: Wuhan Coronavirus

Post by classical_Liberal »

Providing supplemental O2 for certain types of at risk people, who'd probably be hard hit with a respiratory infection, can actually decrease or completely eliminate their drive to breath due to chronic elevated Co2 levels in their blood. So, just be careful how you use medical equipment when choosing to "prep".

https://www.ausmed.com/cpd/articles/hypoxic-drive

Seppia
Posts: 1200
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2016 9:34 am
Location: Italy

Re: Wuhan Coronavirus

Post by Seppia »

I certainly do not trust official Chinese numbers, but I certainly trust “alternative sources” even less.
I’m trying to tune out all the noise and focus on what I genuinely believe to be accurate depictions of reality.
For example, this is encouraging

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/ ... links-more

“During Friday's press conference National Development Minister Lawrence Wong pointed out that the mortality rate of the disease is much lower outside of Hubei.
While it is 2 per cent in Hubei, the epicentre of the disease, it is 0.2 per cent elsewhere, he noted.”

Also, in general terms, news from places I trust seem not to be so dramatic as well

ertyu
Posts: 355
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 2:31 am

Re: Wuhan Coronavirus

Post by ertyu »

The progression of the disease seems to be slow, that's what's making me think we'll see the mortality rate rise. People simply haven't been infected for long enough. It took between 1 and 3 months (Dec-Feb) for the doctor to die. I say give it time.

tonyedgecombe
Posts: 306
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:11 pm
Location: Oxford, UK
Contact:

Re: Wuhan Coronavirus

Post by tonyedgecombe »

Seppia wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 3:03 am

“During Friday's press conference National Development Minister Lawrence Wong pointed out that the mortality rate of the disease is much lower outside of Hubei.
While it is 2 per cent in Hubei, the epicentre of the disease, it is 0.2 per cent elsewhere, he noted.”
I wonder if that's because the health care systems in Hubei have become overwhelmed.

Post Reply