COVID-19

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bostonimproper
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Re: COVID-19

Post by bostonimproper »

@IlliniDave The biggest benefit of mask-wearing (at least what is guiding CDC recommendation) is the benefit to others rather than the user. If a person has COVID-19 or is asymptomatic, then the droplets of respiration are restricted by the mask and their reach is limited. Assuming everyone or a large portion thereof wears a mask, this brings transmission rates way down. So pretty much anything, including a bandana wrapped around the face, should suit this purpose. Assuming you are using the N95's for a protective purpose, to prevent illness and reduce viral load, consider going out with goggles as well since ocular transmission is apparently a thing.

To your original question, what we are doing is using cloth mask covers my husband sewed over our P100s, wash mask covers after each use, and hanging the masks themselves on the balcony for a day to let them air out and have UV do its disinfecting thing before bringing them back inside. The virus itself is only viable on surfaces for a few days and we're not planning to leave the house that often anyway. Just need be careful not to touch the outside and inside of the mask.

Relevant notes on FFR reuse and microorganism survival on filters.

IlliniDave
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Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:46 pm

Re: COVID-19

Post by IlliniDave »

Bankai wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 6:51 am
It's interesting that the US advised to wear them on the same day the UK re-confirmed not to wear them justifying this with a lack of evidence that they actually work. I was under the impression that the standard masks only stop bigger droplets and since COVID spreads via aerosols and stays in the air for quite a while they won't be of much help?
Do they really know for sure the virus's propagation methods yet? I thought what I'd heard was the droplet M.O. projected from sneezing/coughing was the leading candidate, either breathed in, or the droplets falling and infecting surfaces? But that is relatively old info and still somewhat speculative at the time.

What I remember hearing that it was much more important for infected people to wear masks than it was for not infected people (healthcare workers and first responders aside), to contain droplet spray. But it's had to know who to believe. I have only heard about the new CDC guidance second-hand, i.e., I did not watch the press briefing yesterday to hear what the medical pros gave as a reason (assuming they were asked and it wasn't just a bunch of gotcha questions, which is why I quit tuning in).

J_ and DreamofFreedom. Thanks. The masks I have have been stored in my garage for about 7 years. No climate control so it gets brutally hot in the summer. The elastic used (brand is 3M) seems to have held up pretty good. Everyday elastic bands don't last a year out there. I don't think the garage gets to 158F though. My oven is older and the first mark on the dial is 200F, but I suppose I can eyeball. I'd guess a longer soak at 120F+ might achieve the same end. I thought I'd read that at 100F the persistence of the virus decreased to minutes from hours. So if I can get the interior of the mask above 100F a few hours a day and only wear it once a week for the 20-30 minute it takes me to hustle through the grocery, I should be okay.

In the world of ironies, we're having another cooler than normal spring here. If there was ever a time I'd want to see an "all-time hottest" streak, it would be the next three months.

Work is another matter. If they begin mandating masks and don't provide them, I'll probably have to quit going in, as my micro-hoard might not last long being used all day every day.

The good news is I found a third unused mask in the garage.

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Bankai
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Re: COVID-19

Post by Bankai »

Yeah, it's all still speculation. The initial assumption was that it's just the big droplets from coughing/sneezing but then there are stories like this one https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/st ... r-outbreak where no one sneezed or coughed and still 45 got infected.

IlliniDave
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Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:46 pm

Re: COVID-19

Post by IlliniDave »

bostonimproper wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 7:20 am
@IlliniDave The biggest benefit of mask-wearing (at least what is guiding CDC recommendation) is the benefit to others rather than the user. If a person has COVID-19 or is asymptomatic, then the droplets of respiration are restricted by the mask and their reach is limited. Assuming everyone or a large portion thereof wears a mask, this brings transmission rates way down. So pretty much anything, including a bandana wrapped around the face, should suit this purpose. Assuming you are using the N95's for a protective purpose, to prevent illness and reduce viral load, consider going out with goggles as well since ocular transmission is apparently a thing.

To your original question, what we are doing is using cloth mask covers my husband sewed over our P100s, wash mask covers after each use, and hanging the masks themselves on the balcony for a day to let them air out and have UV do its disinfecting thing before bringing them back inside. The virus itself is only viable on surfaces for a few days and we're not planning to leave the house that often anyway. Just need be careful not to touch the outside and inside of the mask.

Relevant notes on FFR reuse and microorganism survival on filters.
Thanks. Honestly my biggest concern today is simply being compliant, and/or to avoid being an asymptomatic carrier. N95 is just what I have. The event they tighten up the guidance that it must be a fitted mask and make it mandatory is what I'm thinking ahead too.

This is a weird situation for me. It's probably been 30 years since I had the flu, so my immune system and habits protect me pretty well. About once every 5-10 years I get a bronchial infection which results in a productive cough, but no fever or other flu-like symptoms, and those tend to come during peak allergy season (June and September around here). But having a history of asthma, generally mild now, but was more severe when I was a kid (never hospitalization-level severe), means I'm leery of c-19. Past history suggests I might well get infected and never know it. I can't imagine I have not been exposed to the flu viruses over the last 30 years. So at present I'm not too worried about myself, just don't want to be a mechanism for spread. However when it gets more prevalent in my area I will probably shift to a more defensive posture due to Pascal's wager logic.

Unfortunately I get more ere points deducted because I don't have a machine and probably couldn't sew with it if I did. I have a little sewing kit for bush fixes but I keep that at the cabin with my "wilderness" gear (along with my bandanas). I like the idea of a washable outer cover, which the bandanna would suffice for. If nothing else I have some table napkins and microfiber cloths that are a hair too small for the bandit look tied in back, but I could probably do something with a safety pin. I also have a bunch of scarves, but the thought of using one of those through the summer relegates it to an emergency option.

IlliniDave
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Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:46 pm

Re: COVID-19

Post by IlliniDave »

Bankai wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 7:44 am
Yeah, it's all still speculation. The initial assumption was that it's just the big droplets from coughing/sneezing but then there are stories like this one https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/st ... r-outbreak where no one sneezed or coughed and still 45 got infected.
That's interesting (and worrisome). Of course you have a roomful of people expelling air above and beyond normal respiration in a choir setting, but it is less powerful expulsion than coughing or sneezing.

Jin+Guice
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Re: COVID-19

Post by Jin+Guice »

Re: Masks

I'm suspicious when there's a CDC recommendation that healthcare workers do one thing and the general population do another. I can't imagine there is harm in wearing a mask if you already have one, especially if you figure out a way to reuse it.

Louisiana has tested about 1.2% (assuming no double tests) of its population with about ~19% positive. ~3.6% of those who tested positive have died and another ~16.6% in hospitals (5.2% of the positive tests are on vents). New Orleans is at an ~25% positive test rate with ~4.26% death rate amongst positive tests. To my knowledge, no hospitals have run out of vents or beds yet.

I'm not sure this adds anything to the discussion about a large amount of asymptomatic carriers, since Louisiana hasn't been able to test enough, given the high prevalence here.

Jason
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Re: COVID-19

Post by Jason »

Fauci responded 50/50 when asked about the effectiveness of a mask, ultimately saying "it can't hurt."

Looks like Suo was ahead of the curve.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... uarantines

George the original one
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Re: COVID-19

Post by George the original one »

George the original one wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:23 pm
Covid Trends has now included the option to view USA, Australia, Canada, and China by state/province.

USA plots show that only Alaska has left the COVID-19 trajectory with Washington, Oregon, & Arkansas on the cusp of leaving. New York is bending the trajectory, but still a long ways from leaving.

https://aatishb.com/covidtrends/?region ... Washington
Now California looks like they're on the cusp of leaving the trajectory.

George the original one
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Re: COVID-19

Post by George the original one »

Countries leaving the COVID-19 trajectory
Australia
Austria
China
Finland
Germany
Italy
Luxembourg
Norway
South Korea
Spain
Switzerland

https://aatishb.com/covidtrends/?locati ... ed+Kingdom

George the original one
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Re: COVID-19

Post by George the original one »

classical_Liberal wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 9:36 pm
Does anyone know if their state has a higher percentage of total population tested? I'd be curious to know those negative PCR rates.
Washington 1.06% tested, 8.4% of tests are positive
Oregon 0.41% tested, 5.2% of tests are positive

jacob
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Re: COVID-19

Post by jacob »

The case/1M and tests/1M stats at the country level can be found on https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ (all the way to the right of the table).

macg
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Location: USA-FL

Re: COVID-19

Post by macg »

@IlliniDave, a friend of mine with CF has re-used n95 masks to some degree for years, by covering the outside. She has generally modified some form of HEPA air filter as the covering

CS
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Re: COVID-19

Post by CS »

Apologies if someone has already posted this -

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kVPWMn ... gN23e/view
Abstract
The COVID-19 disease is one of worst pandemicsto sweep the globe in recent times. It is noteworthy
that the disease has its greatest impact on the elderly. Herein, we investigated the potential of
childhood vaccination, specifically against measles, mumps and rubella (MMR), to identify if this
could potentially confer acquired protection over SARS-CoV-2. We identified sequence homology
between the fusion proteins of SARS-CoV-2 and measles and mumps viruses. Moreover, we also
identified a 29% amino acid sequence homology between the Macro (ADP-ribose-1’’-phosphatase)
domains of SARS-CoV-2 and rubella virus. The rubella Macro domain has surface-exposed conserved
residues and is present in the attenuated rubella virus in MMR. Hence, we hypothesize that MMR
could protect against poor outcome in COVID-19 infection. As an initial test of this hypothesis, we
identified that 1) age groups that most likely lack of MMR vaccine-induced immunity had the
poorest outcome in COVID-19, and 2) COVID-19 disease burden correlates with rubella antibody
titres, potentially induced by SARS-CoV2 homologous sequences. We therefore propose that

vaccination of ‘at risk’ age groups with an MMR vaccination merits further consideration as a time-
appropriate and safe intervention.
I had to get tested (titered) for immunity in my thirties when I'd gone back to school. I'd lost immunity
to one of the three diseases (my online records don't go back that far, so I don't know which one).
Childhood immunizations don't last that long.

That is getting to be a while back, so I'm calling my doctor next week to see to see what she thinks
about a booster. Someone said it is subcutaneous (an easy shot to give yourself) so conceivably
this could come from a mail order pharmacy and be done in the home.

jacob
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Re: COVID-19

Post by jacob »

@CS - Interesting. Most of the older crowd (depending on when vaccination was introduced in their country) would almost surely have contracted rubella directly which does confer lifelong immunity.

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Ego
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Re: COVID-19

Post by Ego »

@CS, that would be incredible and would explain why kids are not susceptible.

According to my records last MR vaccination was in 1995. I got tested for immunity in 2014 when I took the EMT course. I see that CVS Clinics in the US perform the MMR vaccination for $135 and they have appointments today. Hum

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jennypenny
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Re: COVID-19

Post by jennypenny »

jacob wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 12:01 pm
@CS - Interesting. Most of the older crowd (depending on when vaccination was introduced in their country) would almost surely have contracted rubella directly which does confer lifelong immunity.
Not always. The immunity can, and does, wear off. They discovered this with the trend for later pregnancies because rubella immunity is something ob/gyns test for. My immunity had worn off (hadn't plummeted but was well below standards) and my OB told me that she sees it in a lot of older mothers. I remember her saying that she wished they also routinely tested for mumps and measles immunity so they could know whether the MMR vaccine had a shelf life or if it was unique to rubella. Might be similar to chicken pox/shingles since they offer booster shots for those after you're done having children.

jacob
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Re: COVID-19

Post by jacob »

I'm aware that the vaccine-induced immunity could wear off over time (or not take in the first place), but I thought that immunity was lifelong if one had had the actual disease. Maybe there are exceptions to that rule, and given how problematic rubella is for the unborn, it's an easy thing to test for and avoid.

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jennypenny
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Re: COVID-19

Post by jennypenny »

I had rubella (I also had mumps ... the joys of growing up in an extended family with immigrants and poorer relations). I also received the MMR vaccine since I never contracted measles and needed that part of it.

I'm not trying to be argumentative. Just pointing out that immunity might wane with time, and if it begins to wane in late 30s/early 40s given my anecdotal experience with rubella, it might explain age-related COVID issues if MMR is somehow related. (wow ... lots of 'mights' and 'maybes' in that lol)


Another explanation is that rubella is also much less common in children than adults in general. Could be a correlation thing?

CS
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Re: COVID-19

Post by CS »

@jp

The original poster on the forum I found this on had your same point about why some age groups might be more vulnerable due to lost immunity from their shots being so long ago.

If the side effects are slim to none, I think the benefit of the shot are worth it.

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jennypenny
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Re: COVID-19

Post by jennypenny »

It would absolutely be worth it, especially since it's a known vaccine that hasn't been rushed into production just for COVID protection. It might also have the added benefit of squashing the anti-vaxxer movement since the MMR vaccine has been central to that cause.

Fingers crossed this is true. It would be easy enough to have DS's immunity confirmed through a blood test so he doesn't have to spend the rest of high school locked in the house.

Sorry ... /speculation

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