COVID-19
-
slowtraveler
- Posts: 722
- Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:06 pm
Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
I'm currently in the IndoChina area. Wearing a mask when I go out, washing hands often, isopropyl clean phone every night, dont touch face with hands, turn or walk/run away from all the people coughing. Last night, heard tons of coughing when I went to the night market. Thinking to stay home for a few days, if it gets worse, will flee to the balkans before they close the gates. Thinking around end of this month or first week of next month to leave.
Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
@slowtraveler, I saw this map of country by country epidemic preparations and was pleasantly surprised to see that Thailand is among the best prepared at #6 in the world.
https://www.statista.com/chart/20629/ab ... -pandemic/
Based on data from https://www.ghsindex.org/
https://www.statista.com/chart/20629/ab ... -pandemic/
Based on data from https://www.ghsindex.org/
Last edited by Ego on Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
flee now. an infected person is asymptomatic but contagious for 14 days. If I were you, I would not flee to the balkans. I would flee to somewhere first world where they can treat you properly if you happen to have caught it. Most everywhere poorer would be strapped for resources if this does turn out to be the kind of pandemic they expected.slowtraveler wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:21 pmI'm currently in the IndoChina area. Wearing a mask when I go out, washing hands often, isopropyl clean phone every night, dont touch face with hands, turn or walk/run away from all the people coughing. Last night, heard tons of coughing when I went to the night market. Thinking to stay home for a few days, if it gets worse, will flee to the balkans before they close the gates. Thinking around end of this month or first week of next month to leave.
Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
I wonder about the effect of Chinese New Year on the spread of the virus. This is the time of the year where many Chinese travel to be with their families, or travel overseas for a holiday in Thailand, South Korea or Japan, etc.
This Chinese New Year, the golden week public holidays are from 1/24-30. The holidays kick off on 1/24 with New Year's Eve (reunion dinner).
Many people would have taken a few days off before 1/24 in order to be at their destinations before New Year's Eve.
The lockdown was only imposed on 1/23, just one day before New Year's Eve. By this time most people would have completed the first leg of their travels (from Wuhan to wherever).
I think major damage might have been done by allowing all this travel to take place, despite knowing about the virus since December. Now, with the holidays coming to a close, large numbers of (potentially infected) people will be travelling again.
This Chinese New Year, the golden week public holidays are from 1/24-30. The holidays kick off on 1/24 with New Year's Eve (reunion dinner).
Many people would have taken a few days off before 1/24 in order to be at their destinations before New Year's Eve.
The lockdown was only imposed on 1/23, just one day before New Year's Eve. By this time most people would have completed the first leg of their travels (from Wuhan to wherever).
I think major damage might have been done by allowing all this travel to take place, despite knowing about the virus since December. Now, with the holidays coming to a close, large numbers of (potentially infected) people will be travelling again.
Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
Off topic:
I've had a personal experience with one of these products: A few years ago, when still living in one the capital cities of SEA, I contracted dengue fever. I received modern hospital care and all was good, but I had lost a lot of weight. After being discharged from hospital, to help me recover, a well-meaning relative gave me a broth to drink which, as I found out later, included rhino-horn......
Needless to say, I was NOT amused
I have heard about a bat eaten by a snake eaten by a human, in a Wuhan wet market. Sadly, it doesn't surprise me. China's increasing affluence is driving the demand for wildlife products as food or traditional medicine, many of them illegal.
I've had a personal experience with one of these products: A few years ago, when still living in one the capital cities of SEA, I contracted dengue fever. I received modern hospital care and all was good, but I had lost a lot of weight. After being discharged from hospital, to help me recover, a well-meaning relative gave me a broth to drink which, as I found out later, included rhino-horn......
Needless to say, I was NOT amused
Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
Did it make you feel better? Your relative should have asked you first.
I’ve had some traditional remedies while in China for tummy bugs. It worked. Roots of some kind. Tasted awful. Hopefully some hapless pangolin didn’t have to die for my diarrhea.
I had a Chinese girlfriend who believed in this stuff. She thought my lack of interest was a virility problem and fed me some questionable items for it. I was only twenty so it was 100% unnecessary. Sea creatures, chicken embryos and roots. If I had to describe the physiological change induced it was kind of like drinking a lot of Red Bull. There was an effect but not quite what she’d anticipated. And I had to eat a lot of gross stuff which probably was endangered.
Sadly a lot of the snake consumption going on in the Wuhan wet market is for virility issues.
I got back from a ski trip this weekend. Mandarin speaking tourists coughed all over me on the lifts. I have a cold now. I turned in the news and somebody in my town (Irvine) brought the Wuhan corona. Great.
Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
I knew someone who set up a mediaeval clinic specialising in traditional European medicine but she struggled to compete with the Chinese. Problems with regulators too. Same old story.
-
Jason
Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
Well, this could be good news with regard to how long your savings needs to last.
Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
Interesting twist.
It came from bats but DNA analysis says the recombination did not happen recently so the theory that it came from that wet market is out.
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... 6.920249v1
Strange twist.
Not quite sure what this means.
It came from bats but DNA analysis says the recombination did not happen recently so the theory that it came from that wet market is out.
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... 6.920249v1
Strange twist.
https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opin ... bate-34502Nov 16, 2015, Ralph Baric, an infectious-disease researcher at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, last week (November 9) published a study on his team’s efforts to engineer a virus with the surface protein of the SHC014 coronavirus, found in horseshoe bats in China, and the backbone of one that causes human-like severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) in mice. The hybrid virus could infect human airway cells and caused disease in mice, according to the team’s results, which were published in Nature Medicine.
Not quite sure what this means.
Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
I bought some Bleach in case water stops running, and refiled m'y rice, fat, and lentils stocks. I have enough Books and music instruments to replace my gaming rig before zombies reach m'y place in case power goes down. I'm more worried about how i don't Care what happens.
Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
Anyone know if a 3M 2097 filter (P100 gray rubber mask with hot pink disk filters) works for Corona virus? I read the specs but it doesn’t say anything about virus protection. I use these for pollen and brake dust. The spec says 0.3um and up but I just read the corona virus is 0.1um.
I’m going to head out to the bulk foods store and get some extras. You guys are starting to scare me into action. I had an earthquake supply of lentils but I ate them after discovering the Instantpot. I’ll have to replenish...today.
I was at Lowe’s this morning getting hardware and I noticed all the cheap dust masks were gone.
I guess my neighbors are taking this seriously.
I’m going to head out to the bulk foods store and get some extras. You guys are starting to scare me into action. I had an earthquake supply of lentils but I ate them after discovering the Instantpot. I’ll have to replenish...today.
I was at Lowe’s this morning getting hardware and I noticed all the cheap dust masks were gone.
I guess my neighbors are taking this seriously.-
jacob
- Site Admin
- Posts: 15994
- Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:38 pm
- Location: USA, Zone 5b, Koppen Dfa, Elev. 620ft, Walkscore 77
- Contact:
Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
@Sclass - Yes, the virus is smaller but the virus travels on airborne droplets that are typically larger than 0.3um, so it will be rather effective in that regard. It's no guarantee but it's a big step up in risk reduction in particular because it keeps your hands out of your face as that is a huge vector. Fit is more important than rating to ensure that nothing gets in through the sides. Make sure it's tight/snug. Shave the beard.
I googled my way to this: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5969371/ ... as you can see random masks can be rather shite/idiosyncratic.
(It's mindblowing how fast these guys are able to publish these articles. Respect!)
It worthwhile to keep in mind that infection ultimately is a physical process. A viral particle has to exit an infected person and then survive long enough outside the body to physically enter the body of next patient in various ways. That describes the "reach". A mask would stop the virus at the filter. A closed door would stop it at the door. A hand picking one's nose after touching the door handle would guide it along. The virus then has to enter a compatible cell in the infectee's body and take it over (likely destroying the cell in the process). That describes the "force". It then does its thing making copies of itself and sends them out of the cell again and into other cells in the body of yourself as well as friends, family, and various others within "reach". That describes the "virulence". (With the flu, the H# describes how it gets into the human cells, the N# how it gets out).
The hopefully functional immune system then tries to attack and get rid of the infection and dispose of it which may include various stupid human tricks like snot, coughs, diarrhea, or raising body temperature depending on where the infection is e.g. airways, digestive system, skin or organs. The effectiveness of how it does that thwarts the virus ... hopefully before too many critical cells get destroyed or damaged and permanently kills or debilitates(*) the infectee. If the virus tries to leave the body before these human body-scale reactions, it's considered asymptomatic. Other times the virus will take advantage of that system by e.g. making you sneeze or itch and leave along with your touch, exhalation, blood, urine, feces, etc. in order to enter some other human.
(*) I should note that this is why it's generally better to get immunity from getting the vaccine than the disease. What doesn't kill you generally doesn't make you stronger when it comes to surviving infections, so "going natural" is generally dumb. Some diseases leave a permanent mark. Polio is an obvious example. Chickenpox is a less obvious one that can lead to shingles many decades later.
Point being, the process can be thwarted at any point and then more it can be thwarted, the greater the chance of staying healthy or not getting sick enough to notice or spread it any further. So increasing distance, masks/protection, filters, chlorine, health, rest, nutrition, etc... all helps. Also why infectious diseases mostly kill those who are deficient in one or more of those dimensions.
It's reasonable to engage in a appropriate response given the parameters of the disease^H^H^H^H^Hcompeting life-form which rudely treats humans as food/prey. Thus if the virus doesn't have that much "force" (which seems to be the case here), a simple/cheap surgical mask will work to reduce the transmission efficacy. This is also why they put masks on the patient!(**) (Or have school children sneeze down their sweater.) Whereas a disease with a lot of "force", like Ebola, is why doctors dress up in double layered hazmat suits, triple gloves, face shields and what have you. It's all a matter of degree. Your P100s go beyond what most people including doctors do or would do.
(**) When you see the supremely civilized Japanese wearing masks in public (a legacy from 1918) it's generally not paranoid individuals trying to avoid getting infected but people trying to avoid spreading it to others in case they have something.
I googled my way to this: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5969371/ ... as you can see random masks can be rather shite/idiosyncratic.
(It's mindblowing how fast these guys are able to publish these articles. Respect!)
It worthwhile to keep in mind that infection ultimately is a physical process. A viral particle has to exit an infected person and then survive long enough outside the body to physically enter the body of next patient in various ways. That describes the "reach". A mask would stop the virus at the filter. A closed door would stop it at the door. A hand picking one's nose after touching the door handle would guide it along. The virus then has to enter a compatible cell in the infectee's body and take it over (likely destroying the cell in the process). That describes the "force". It then does its thing making copies of itself and sends them out of the cell again and into other cells in the body of yourself as well as friends, family, and various others within "reach". That describes the "virulence". (With the flu, the H# describes how it gets into the human cells, the N# how it gets out).
The hopefully functional immune system then tries to attack and get rid of the infection and dispose of it which may include various stupid human tricks like snot, coughs, diarrhea, or raising body temperature depending on where the infection is e.g. airways, digestive system, skin or organs. The effectiveness of how it does that thwarts the virus ... hopefully before too many critical cells get destroyed or damaged and permanently kills or debilitates(*) the infectee. If the virus tries to leave the body before these human body-scale reactions, it's considered asymptomatic. Other times the virus will take advantage of that system by e.g. making you sneeze or itch and leave along with your touch, exhalation, blood, urine, feces, etc. in order to enter some other human.
(*) I should note that this is why it's generally better to get immunity from getting the vaccine than the disease. What doesn't kill you generally doesn't make you stronger when it comes to surviving infections, so "going natural" is generally dumb. Some diseases leave a permanent mark. Polio is an obvious example. Chickenpox is a less obvious one that can lead to shingles many decades later.
Point being, the process can be thwarted at any point and then more it can be thwarted, the greater the chance of staying healthy or not getting sick enough to notice or spread it any further. So increasing distance, masks/protection, filters, chlorine, health, rest, nutrition, etc... all helps. Also why infectious diseases mostly kill those who are deficient in one or more of those dimensions.
It's reasonable to engage in a appropriate response given the parameters of the disease^H^H^H^H^Hcompeting life-form which rudely treats humans as food/prey. Thus if the virus doesn't have that much "force" (which seems to be the case here), a simple/cheap surgical mask will work to reduce the transmission efficacy. This is also why they put masks on the patient!(**) (Or have school children sneeze down their sweater.) Whereas a disease with a lot of "force", like Ebola, is why doctors dress up in double layered hazmat suits, triple gloves, face shields and what have you. It's all a matter of degree. Your P100s go beyond what most people including doctors do or would do.
(**) When you see the supremely civilized Japanese wearing masks in public (a legacy from 1918) it's generally not paranoid individuals trying to avoid getting infected but people trying to avoid spreading it to others in case they have something.
Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
May be useful:
Spoke at length with my dad who is a doctor, he was especially informed/vigilant because I was supposed to travel to HK.
The main message he tried to hammer home was that washing your hands as often as possible (and avoiding crowded places obviously) is by far and away the most important thing to do.
As jacob mentions, this virus seems not t have a ton of force. He brought me home some surgical masks and said these would provide enough protection.
Obviously a full body armor would be even better but... "appropriate response".
Wash your hands as often as possible, have some hand sanitizer handy and don't touch your face.
Spoke at length with my dad who is a doctor, he was especially informed/vigilant because I was supposed to travel to HK.
The main message he tried to hammer home was that washing your hands as often as possible (and avoiding crowded places obviously) is by far and away the most important thing to do.
As jacob mentions, this virus seems not t have a ton of force. He brought me home some surgical masks and said these would provide enough protection.
Obviously a full body armor would be even better but... "appropriate response".
Wash your hands as often as possible, have some hand sanitizer handy and don't touch your face.
Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
I will also put extra attention into getting enough sleep. Everytime i got the flue, i was lacking sleep. Avoiding exposition seems very hard. Keeping in shape seems easier.
-
Jason
Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
I don't see why the Chinese government just can't apply their advanced facial recognition technology to deter their citizens from throat fucking bats.
-
classical_Liberal
- Posts: 2283
- Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2016 6:05 am
Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
I looked at the CDC recommendations for healthcare professionals with this virus. It's full on contact precautions, airborne precautions, and eye protection. This means gloves, a gown that covers clothing, eye goggles or face shield, and N95.
Generally for a virus of this type droplet precautions would be the rule, unless performing aerosol based procedures (like nebulizers), then N95 airborne. Droplet precautions mainly entail a regular surgical mask.
I can't tell you whether the CDC has some information that would make this virus different, or if they are just being very cautious for good reason. In any event, if I were in a zone of potentially infected people I would wear a surgical mask if that's all I had access to, it's effective droplet control. Of course, along with all the hygiene suggestions, avoiding public places as much as possible, keep yourself healthy, etc.
Generally for a virus of this type droplet precautions would be the rule, unless performing aerosol based procedures (like nebulizers), then N95 airborne. Droplet precautions mainly entail a regular surgical mask.
I can't tell you whether the CDC has some information that would make this virus different, or if they are just being very cautious for good reason. In any event, if I were in a zone of potentially infected people I would wear a surgical mask if that's all I had access to, it's effective droplet control. Of course, along with all the hygiene suggestions, avoiding public places as much as possible, keep yourself healthy, etc.
Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
I'm in Vietnam and now after seeing you guys tell @slowtraveler to flee, I'm wondering if I should be considering that. I don't get too worked up about things like this and have't been following all that closely.
What I'd really hate is to get this, survive it, and end up with some big life-lone side-effect. I think someone mentioned in this thread that this happened with (some) SARS patients. Is there any evidence of that being a risk?
What I'd really hate is to get this, survive it, and end up with some big life-lone side-effect. I think someone mentioned in this thread that this happened with (some) SARS patients. Is there any evidence of that being a risk?
Last edited by C40 on Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
@jacob et al thanks for the useful info. I really like the 3m P100 for the fit. I have a faint recollection of a test that EH&S did at my old workplace to determine leakage. I forgot how it was done...too long ago. It mattered if you needed a small, medium or large. And yeah, there was a rule no beards and maybe mustaches. Again cannot remember all the details.
I recall going to a lecture on HIV in the late 80s where the presenter talked about the relative transmission between HIV and Hepatitis B. Apparently you needed to get hit with a bigger volume of HIV virus than Hep B to get infected. I guess getting a single .1um virus through a respirator filter doesn’t guarantee infection with Wuhan Corona. Makes sense you get an airborne droplet of spit with thousands of virus
particles.
Well I’m most certainly infected with a cold tonight. Probably the garden variety corona virus. Time to sleep early.
I recall going to a lecture on HIV in the late 80s where the presenter talked about the relative transmission between HIV and Hepatitis B. Apparently you needed to get hit with a bigger volume of HIV virus than Hep B to get infected. I guess getting a single .1um virus through a respirator filter doesn’t guarantee infection with Wuhan Corona. Makes sense you get an airborne droplet of spit with thousands of virus
particles. Well I’m most certainly infected with a cold tonight. Probably the garden variety corona virus. Time to sleep early.
Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
What is the best way to safely use a non-disposable respirator mask (mine is the popular SafetyWorks SWX00320 model), assuming you aren't going to be spending $20+ on new cartridges after each day of use? The N95 / surgical masks are intended for single use and can easily be disposed of without touching the outside, but it seems that even carefully replacing the cartridges of a P100 mask after a risky encounter would not be very safe.
Would leaving the mask outside in direct sunlight for a day or two between outings offer some protection? Otherwise just take the mask off without touching the front, leave it outside the house, and immediately wash hands?
I ordered new cartridges for mine (could use them anyway) and wouldn't be using it unless the odds are tipping more toward the virus being widespread in my area.
Would leaving the mask outside in direct sunlight for a day or two between outings offer some protection? Otherwise just take the mask off without touching the front, leave it outside the house, and immediately wash hands?
I ordered new cartridges for mine (could use them anyway) and wouldn't be using it unless the odds are tipping more toward the virus being widespread in my area.
Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
https://www.ctwant.com/article/34642
Translated using Google translate...
and
Translated using Google translate...
.A woman named Lu returned to her hometown in Henan from Wuhan on the 10th to celebrate the New Year. No illness has been reported for 19 days, but her 5 relatives and friends have been diagnosed one after another! It is suspected that Lu Nu is an "asymptomatic infection". The local health and health committee has asked experts to study the infection process in this case and to test Lu Nu for a new coronavirus
and
None of the five confirmed cases had a history of travel and residence in Wuhan, and only Lu's daughter had returned home from Wuhan to spend the New Year, but she did not develop the disease and caused outside concern that she had returned home for 19 days. "Should I have passed the quarantine period, why hasn't she developed the disease herself? "Many people think that if she is" asymptomatic ", how can the people around her determine whether she is a close contact?