Sleeping Problems

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theanimal
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Re: Sleeping Problems

Post by theanimal » Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:02 pm

@ego that's alright, no apology neceasary. I think it was a mutual misunderstanding.

@jenny- Yes I'm 26 now so theoretically my brain is fully developed (my mom doesn't think so...). If you can find that article, I'd be very interested to read it.

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jennypenny
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Re: Sleeping Problems

Post by jennypenny » Sun Jun 16, 2019 10:21 am

Sorry, I looked again but can't find it. I have to go out so can't keep looking. Maybe I'll remember the exact name of the article and then I'll be able to find it. It was good -- about subtle changes in men after they peak physically. It discussed some changes that might be harbingers of future physical and mental health issues. Apparently, there are a lot of issues that pop up during that time but generally get ignored while men traditionally pursue careers and start families -- things like food intolerances, sleep issues, aggression changes, mental health red flags, and hints at future cardiac issues.

Ponderosa
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Re: Sleeping Problems

Post by Ponderosa » Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:55 pm

This post inspired me to make the final push to eliminate caffeine. I've had crappy sleep for awhile now and drinking 200-300mg of cold brew a day wasn't helping..

Anyways I'm down to one cup of black tea in the morning. It is brewed rather strong but my sleep is better and my intention is to switch to green tea once my black tea runs out.

oldbeyond
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Re: Sleeping Problems

Post by oldbeyond » Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:43 am

I'm also struggling with my sleep as detailed in my journal. I'll share my plan here for accountability (and feedback, of course!)

- I got an alarm clock so that I can keep the phone out of the bedroom. This will eliminate late night rabbit holes, or even quick checks that rev up my brain. Also it'll remove the light from the screen.
- I'm keeping a sleep diary where I note sleep duration and quality, time in bed, consumption of caffeine/alcohohol, etc.
- I'll get some sleeping pills to have something to resort to, hopefully the knowledge of having them available will help quite a bit in itself. Will set an appointment with the doctor tomorrow.
- I'll meditate before bed, for at least 10 minutes. I'm doing discursive mediation that seems to work well for me and manages to undo a lot of mental knots.
- I'll reduce caffeine. It'd be best to quit cold turkey but I don't know that I can get through the day without any. I'll avoid coffee and do green tea instead.
- I'll limit time in bed, both in the evening (not reading in bed for to long before sleep, getting up for a while if I can't fall asleep) and in the morning (not using the snooze button). This will definitely be the hardest habit to achieve, but also likely one of the most impactful.

FIRE 2018
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Re: Sleeping Problems

Post by FIRE 2018 » Sun Aug 11, 2019 1:34 pm

One end all be all to my sleeping issues

1x a night Melatonin 1 hour before bedtime. It will take an earthquake to wake me up.

Campitor
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Re: Sleeping Problems

Post by Campitor » Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:32 am

I highly recommend reading Why We Sleep by Matthew Walker PhD. The book gets deep into the science of sleeping and how suboptimal sleep affects us. I haven't finished the book yet - I've read 43% of it per my kindle - but supposedly he discusses how we can improve our sleep. The 1st half of the book is mostly about how sleep is impacted via chemicals like caffeine or lights from tv's/computers, etc, and short and long term effects of sleep deprivation however minor.

horsewoman
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Re: Sleeping Problems

Post by horsewoman » Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:10 am

A book which I found very interesting was "Sleep Demons: An Insomniac's Memoir" by Bill Hayes.

One thing I took away from it was that being an "insomniac" or that you "have never been able to sleep" can become part of your self-image.
I've had serious trouble with falling asleep since I can remember and it is such an integral part of my life that I can hardly imagine how it could be different. I'm also suffering from hypnagogic hallucinations, which takes the horrors of falling asleep to a new level.

After reading the book and especially the part where Bill Hayes writes about this, I realized that I'm "guilty" of this as well to some extent.
I started to pay attention to my inner dialogue about this topic and tried to take myself and insomnia not so serious anymore.
And I have to say, it has been getting better overall. There are stretches of days or weeks where I'm falling asleep under 30 Minutes, which was unheard of before. I listen to a rotation of super dull audio books while falling asleep, so I can pinpoint at least approximately if I have listened to 1 chapter or 5. The hypnagogic hallucinations are better, too (but I think that is due to the audio books).

(P.S. the book also deals with the authors experiences as a gay man during the AIDS scare, so if that is not your cup of tea, be warned. It is a memoir, no self help book.)

Smashter
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Re: Sleeping Problems

Post by Smashter » Tue Sep 03, 2019 5:15 pm

theanimal wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 9:29 am
I use an Oura Ring. It's very expensive but the sleep tracking is bar none and health is not something I skimp on. The daytime aspect of the ring is so-so, but the sleep component is outstanding.
I've always thought this too, but I recently came across a post by Kevin Bass, a nutrition researcher I like, called "Why the Oura ring sucks for tracking sleep and might be harming your health." 

Studies done on the Oura ring appear to show that it's really not that great at tracking sleep stages. From the post:
From EBE analysis, ŌURA ring had a 96% sensitivity to detect sleep, and agreement of 65%, 51%, and 61%, in detecting “light sleep” (N1), “deep sleep” (N2 + N3), and REM sleep, respectively. Specificity in detecting wake was 48%.”

Specificity in detecting wake was 48%! If this was a medical test, it would never be approved by FDA.

A specificity of 48% means that there is a 48% chance that someone is awake when the device says they are asleep.

That is horrible.
Have you found the sleep data from your ring matches up with how you feel?

theanimal
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Re: Sleeping Problems

Post by theanimal » Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:36 pm

Smashter wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 5:15 pm
Have you found the sleep data from your ring matches up with how you feel?
Yes. My experience is nothing like the guy in that post. The only thing that I've seen wrong is just after waking if I'm meditating or sitting in the same location as my bed but on the first floor the app thinks I'm still sleeping or in bed. However, they've updated the app recently so that you can edit your sleep time and erase erroneous recordings like that. But otherwise it accurately captures my awake vs sleep time or is pretty damn close to it. I can't comment on the stages but I do think it captures my REM states accurately based off of recollection of dreams the next morning. I have no complaints.

GandK
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Re: Sleeping Problems

Post by GandK » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:57 pm

I looked and can't find the article I remember reading on the subject, but I remember that (in addition to all the great notes above) fasting can keep people, especially women, up at night. IIRC this is because it increases testosterone slightly in both males and females.

Are any of you insomniacs fasting at all?

theanimal
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Re: Sleeping Problems

Post by theanimal » Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:28 pm

GandK wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:57 pm

Are any of you insomniacs fasting at all?
I do intermittent fasting most of the time and longer fasts every once in a while. However, I'm very rarely hungry prior to going to bed.I don't think that's the issue that I was having as I've been doing IF off/on for years without similar problems (at least that I can recall..). I do remember hearing other people share that evidence though. Peter Attia comes to mind. i think he mentioned on a podcast somewhere how during his longer fasts he has more trouble sleeping. I don't remember the exact reason whether it was hunger or some chemical imbalance.

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