On ERE and Mental Health issues

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horsewoman
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Re: On ERE and Mental Health issues

Post by horsewoman » Thu Nov 28, 2019 1:16 am

Ego wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 9:48 pm
Why do we feel okay about non-professionals giving advice about depression and anxiety but not about a heart condition? We've had a few people here mention suicide so the stakes seem comparable. What makes depression and anxiety different?
A few things come to mind. I know which threads you are referring to. The OP has a habit of posting slightly strange questions without following up on the answers, or posting questions that have been discussed literally 2 threads up. At least it has been this way since I'm around. The OP has gotten some advice, but did not really answer again. So what more is there to say than "go see a doctor"? The health problems he discribed are normally easily deal with by any GP.

@ego - have you ever pursued a diagnosis for a mental health problem or tried to get qualified help for such issues? I think most people who have done so would agree with me that you are mostly on you own, unless you are content with a prescription for anti-depressants (not that there is anything wrong with taking some!).

The amount of energy it takes to even find help and to get this people to take you seriously is often more than a person in mental distress is able to bring up. People tend to take you seriously if there is something visibly the matter, with mental illness you have to fight for yourself a lot, which makes validation from other people with similar problems so valuable. Hence there is a great need of discussing this often taboo like topics with other people who know what it feels like.

Furthermore, I'm not comfortable to give advice on health questions if I have not a) experienced it myself and b) done a lot research. Should anyone need advice on migraines, food intolerances or reflux, bring em on! :)

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Ego
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Re: On ERE and Mental Health issues

Post by Ego » Thu Nov 28, 2019 9:49 am

@horsewoman, I have no doubt that obtaining a mental health diagnosis is unimaginably difficult. I am certainly not belittling the challenges.

Think of it from a community health perspective. Imagine for a moment we are talking about tuberculosis, measles or zika. Mental health advocates often point out the mental health disease model. They say that mental diseases are the same as physical diseases. Zika, TB and measles kill people. So do depression and anxiety.

Now imagine for a moment that zika or TB or measles could be spread socially without physical contact, like through the internet. What would happen? What would we do to protect the general population from zika if they could get it from a friend on facebook or measles from their favorite Youtube personality? Imagine the quarantines.

Studies have shown that both depression and anxiety are communicable and contagious. They are communicable and contagious in person and through social networks. I read one study that said the contagion has been detected as far as four degrees of separation from the depressed or anxious person.
Consider a 2014 study of college roommates: Researchers studied more than 100 pairs of newly assigned freshman roommates at move-in, and then again three and six months later. They examined, among other things, the students’ symptoms of depression and their tendency to ruminate—their propensity to get tangled up in their feelings and to obsess about the causes and consequences of not feeling well.

Sure enough, students who lived with a ruminating roommate also developed the tendency, which greatly increased their own risk of depression. To be clear, the depressive symptoms themselves weren’t contagious, but the thinking styles were. After six months, freshmen who “caught” a ruminative way of thinking from their roommates had twice as many depressive symptoms as those who didn’t pick up the thinking style.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... contagious

If the thinking styles are contagious and the obsessions are contagious then would it make sense to discourage that kind of communication without oversight from a professional?

horsewoman
Posts: 174
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Re: On ERE and Mental Health issues

Post by horsewoman » Fri Nov 29, 2019 5:10 am

Thank you for that link, I was not aware of this circumstance. Food for thought! It does not really change anything however. Most of us have someone close who suffers from depression, so the only way to ward against getting "infected" is becoming a hermit. Jokes aside, your call for specialists is of course valid, and would be preferable to discussing it with strangers on the internet. Unfortunately there are not enough specialists and some are simply not qualified. IDK how it is in the States, but here in Germany waiting lists of 2 years to see a psychologist are the norm. The best way to get "preferred treatment" is by getting admitted a to psychiatric clinic as an in-patient, because you are a danger to yourself. Obviously this is a serious step with even more serious long-term repercussions (stigma, job-loss, problems with getting insurance,...). Few people are willing to go there, and having lived through this I can tell you it is not pretty.

If you manage to find a psychologist you can only hope it works with this person. For example, my husbands' shrink told him that it is impossible that our child is autistic because she was able to take a message on the phone. WTF? She stated this with 100% certainty, too and in a belittling tone, turning a deaf ear to contrary information. This is like a doctor claiming you cannot have cancer because you are a brunette, or some such stupid thing. How do you trust such a glaringly incompetent person to treat your depression? You don't! Which leaves you without a therapist, but not without a burning need to get help or the feeling that you are not alone in this. So finding like-minded people to compare notes is the next best thing. Plus, it is not only doom and gloom in mental health sub-reddits. I have got so many valuable hints how to deal with my daughters sensory issues from adult Aspergers that I was often close to tears for gratefulness. A small child cannot articulate what the problem is and how to work around it, but someone who has lived through it can. Our quality of life is considerably higher because of those forums. So while your concerns are valid, the benefits of exchanging understanding and coping mechanisms are invaluable, since they can not be got easily from a professional source.

AnalyticalEngine
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Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2018 11:57 am

Re: On ERE and Mental Health issues

Post by AnalyticalEngine » Sat Nov 30, 2019 11:53 am

@horsewoman - Since you mentioned food intolerance, have you experience/read the research on the link between certain food intolerances and depression? I'm thinking of specifically gluten and Celiac Disease here where depression can be an early warning sign of the disease. I've read some research that food intolerance, autoimmune disease, and depression all share a connection, so I'm wondering what your experience is with those and if you have an insight on the connection between food intolerance and mental health.

bigato
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Re: On ERE and Mental Health issues

Post by bigato » Sat Nov 30, 2019 12:50 pm

AnalyticalEngine:
Some keywords that mat help your research are the link between carbohydrates and serotonin (no carbohydrates available means no serotonin in your brain) as well as the role of B12 in forming red blood cells. Low blood cell count guarantees low levels of energy and may contribute to depression. Those links are simple to understand. I also remember vitamin D deficiency being linked to depression but I don’t know the details.

chenda
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Re: On ERE and Mental Health issues

Post by chenda » Sat Nov 30, 2019 4:54 pm

@horsewomen agreed, I think such forums can be helpful if used in the right way.

Diagnosis seems fraut with difficulty as mental health is experienced through the subjective first person. I think I suffer anxiety, but it's not anxiety in the vernacular sense of the term like being anxious before an exam or something. It's a sort of sickening mental hellish feeling of which there is no word to really describe. Sorry for the melodrama, but people who are fortunate to never experience it can't really relate to it.

daylen
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Re: On ERE and Mental Health issues

Post by daylen » Sat Nov 30, 2019 11:09 pm

chenda wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 4:54 pm
It's a sort of sickening mental hellish feeling of which there is no word to really describe.
Existential crisis.

Jason
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Re: On ERE and Mental Health issues

Post by Jason » Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:32 pm

Wait till you get old enough where they're handing you a glad bag and a shit scraper. These will be your halcyon days.

horsewoman
Posts: 174
Joined: Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:11 am

Re: On ERE and Mental Health issues

Post by horsewoman » Tue Dec 03, 2019 10:40 am

AnalyticalEngine wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 11:53 am
@horsewoman - Since you mentioned food intolerance, have you experience/read the research on the link between certain food intolerances and depression? I'm thinking of specifically gluten and Celiac Disease here where depression can be an early warning sign of the disease. I've read some research that food intolerance, autoimmune disease, and depression all share a connection, so I'm wondering what your experience is with those and if you have an insight on the connection between food intolerance and mental health.
I have no direct experience with gluten and Celiac disease (thank god!), in my case it's a pretty severe histamine intolerance (HIT). There is a definite link between HIT and depression, even though it has not been one of my prominent symptoms. I often felt slightly depressed because of my difficulties, but I felt it was more like an inevitable consequence of not being able to eat anything without my whole body going bonkers. Or having one crippling migraine after the other, or insomnia. It was pretty depressing! Looking back I see that I was extremely nervous and anxious before I got my diet and with it the HIT under control.
My belief is that it is all connected in the gut, and the bacteria that lives there. Modern humans eat too much and the wrong stuff. Since I reduced my food intake drastically I have almost no migraines, I'm way calmer and I sleep a lot better. So while I'm still not sure HOW all of this stuff connects, I'm seeing results with eating less - not starving myself, of course! But being very mindful of what goes in.

ertyu
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Re: On ERE and Mental Health issues

Post by ertyu » Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:16 am

This might be a bit tangential to where the thread has gone, but as a depressed and anxious fuck with I'm pretty certain undiagnosed ADD + mild autism, it's a topic I've thought of a lot.

Namely: the terapy model is essentially a consumerist one. Instead of helping each other and talking through our problems in our friendships and social networks, we pay someone to listen to us and ask us questions. Before therapists, people did this for each other. (Religion used to play a role, too, but I am not a religious person, so while I know many find help from clegry and congregation, it's not a place where I'd go - but it's an option.

I think there is a parallel between taking yourself outside the wage-earner - consumer style of providing for yourself and mental health. ERE advocates cultivating and leveraging networks to take needs provision off the consumer track. Maybe you can borrow tools, freecycle, teach and learn skills, barter, etc. The focus is on developing your own skills so you can do for yourself and so you can be a useful node in that network.

I think a similar parallel can be drawn to mental health care. Therapists are trained professionals whom we pay. But we can learn their skills. We can learn active listening. We can learn being non-judgmental and holding a space for others who wish to talk. We can brave opening up and letting others hold a space for us. We can read about therapies and techniques, whether in self-help books or in manuals designed for professionals (this is a hobby of mine, I have read quite a few EMDR manuals, integrate-focusing-with-your-therapy-and-teach-it-to-your-clients manuals, etc.). I have implemented many strategies and seen results. Of course, lots of ground remains. We're all reactive works in progress. But I think I have improved a lot at being able to hold space for another person and respecting them and the fact that different things would be differently hard for different people - removing judgment.

Anyway, the point is, maybe a hand-crafted item will be rougher than a store-bought one, but there is inherent value in it: "producer manifestation" I believe Jacob called it. Ditto with aiming to unburden outselfves from the temporal and psychological demands of employment so we can learn how to better help each other - then actually help. A person would have much more time and patience to stick with a friend who is going through a hard time when that person is not burdened by their own excessive stress.

Anyway, just something I've thought about.

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