May-December Relationships, In-Vitro Fertilization, Freezing Eggs, and Other Considerations

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Fish
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Re: May-December Relationships, In-Vitro Fertilization, Freezing Eggs, and Other Considerations

Post by Fish » Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:30 pm

@jacob - This is the post you were referring to: viewtopic.php?p=177670#p177670

[Edit to remove non-productive comments]
Last edited by Fish on Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Mister Imperceptible
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Re: May-December Relationships, In-Vitro Fertilization, Freezing Eggs, and Other Considerations

Post by Mister Imperceptible » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:18 pm

Jason mentioned something above regarding “I won’t name it.” I went to Sunday School for 10 years. Without compulsion. I received the Catholic sacrament of Confirmation. Look at the future. Who here is being honest with themselves? Who here is acknowledging what they know deep down, but will not name it? Who here is a nihilist? Who here truly wishes to live, and to go on living?
BRUTE wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:41 pm
why struggle
Mister Imperceptible wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:41 pm
why not
I did not ask to be born. I was thrown into this world. I cannot even choose to leave, without hurting those who would miss me.

You can cringe and boycott all you want. There is no alternative.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lJZTgynPGT8

Jason
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Re: May-December Relationships, In-Vitro Fertilization, Freezing Eggs, and Other Considerations

Post by Jason » Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:50 am

Because of my immense respect for JLF and his commitment to civility, I will not launch further grenades into this battlefield. But suffice it to say, you misinterpret "I will not name it."

In the spirit of nudging, I would suggest you read this book:

https://www.amazon.com/At-Existentialis ... 1536617474

It shows a vibrancy and engagement between the existentialist philosophers. Their love of words, their work ethic, their communion, their intellectual flexibility, their attempt at truly creating an experiential philosophy, their embrace of being public intellectuals. For lack of better word, they had fun. Sartre was essentially a rock star who banged everything not nailed down to the floor and excused Little Satre from even a modicum of intellectual rigor. Yes, Heidegger was a miserable little bench sitting shit, but there's one in every crowd. My point is, they lived full lives. Their was a Rat Pack dimension to them with Simon de Beauvioir being the Shirley Mclaine and Merleau-Ponty being their Dean Martin. And like Dean Martin, just because someone walks around with a cocktail glass, doesn't mean there is liquor in it. Don't believe every existentialist treatise you read.

When I turned 21, my girlfriend at the time said "Well, you can no longer believe in rock lyrics." It hurt, but she was right. I think if she was there when I turned 31, I imagine she would have said the same thing about Nietzche.

Mister Imperceptible
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Re: May-December Relationships, In-Vitro Fertilization, Freezing Eggs, and Other Considerations

Post by Mister Imperceptible » Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:08 am

I appreciate the recommendation and will look into it.

Let it be known that everything I do is out of self-defense, even the philosophy I live my life by.

I hope everyone understands my being acerbic is self-defense as the crowd takes turns beating me with a bar of soap Full Metal Jacket style.

Jason
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Re: May-December Relationships, In-Vitro Fertilization, Freezing Eggs, and Other Considerations

Post by Jason » Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:31 am

There is another scenario in which you don't get "beat" with the bar of soap, you get "beat" because of the bar of the soap. And in that instance, you are the one who keeps dropping it. I believe someone navigating your circles would be familiar with this phenomenon.

Mister Imperceptible
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Re: May-December Relationships, In-Vitro Fertilization, Freezing Eggs, and Other Considerations

Post by Mister Imperceptible » Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:48 am

I haven’t shied away from conflict in pursuit of truth. We are learning.

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jennypenny
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Re: May-December Relationships, In-Vitro Fertilization, Freezing Eggs, and Other Considerations

Post by jennypenny » Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:44 am

I'm not sure that 'conflict' leads to learning. I know I get hung up on language, but framing these discussions that way might land you in the I-ask-lots-of-questions-but-dismiss-everyone's-answers category on the forum, which would impede learning and erode the quality of the responses you get.

I'm also not only talking about right vs. wrong debates. If you find yourself thinking 'that might be true for most people/everyone else but not for me', you're fooling yourself unless you have a TON of empirical data to back up your position (which is rare).

ffj
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Re: May-December Relationships, In-Vitro Fertilization, Freezing Eggs, and Other Considerations

Post by ffj » Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:25 am

"I hope everyone understands my being acerbic is self-defense as the crowd takes turns beating me with a bar of soap Full Metal Jacket style"


I think the concern is your age. Some of the ideas you are expressing most people age-out of at some point. I think we all have been nihilists at certain stages of our lives, but at 32 most people have had enough life experience in all aspects of life to sort out ideas that ultimately handicap themselves.

What struck me with your original post is not that your ideas have some basis in truth, but the immaturity in which they are viewed and interpreted. There is a bit of disconnect on how men and women actually behave, with generalizations taken too far. In my experience.

While seemingly harsh, you should be thankful people are being honest with you on an anonymous forum. The alternative is to replicate these ideas in real life with real people without a filter. That can get messy.

You should ask everyone EXACTLY what fired them up in the OP. I think that could be a healthy discussion, with some already having answered that quite well.

suomalainen
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Re: May-December Relationships, In-Vitro Fertilization, Freezing Eggs, and Other Considerations

Post by suomalainen » Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:33 am

If I may*, this thread has certainly had its moments, but the takeaway for me is this: you opened this thread with a wild tale (from the persepective of a disiniterested observer) and a question that basically is “am I being impatient?” You included vivid details of your beau, your attitude towards her, your thought process both of the present as well as the (far) future. Those details evoked reactions, some polite and helpful and others not, but all generally of the “hit the brakes, man” flavor. And as you and jp say, you became (understandably) defensive and combative.

But...you asked the question. You got feedback you didn’t like and confirmation bias kicked in. That’s all fine and normal, but if you didn’t really want honest feedback, you should have owned that. You can still own it. I posted about a relationship...conundrum...in my journal, but wasn’t looking for advice. I got shit on too anyway, but [shrugs] internet.

As to your question: yes you are being impatient. I can not identify the causes of that, although the mindset/thought process you detailed indicates that perhaps you are immature in your social relationships. That is hard feedback to hear. But you have received it. It’s up to you to decide whether you can dismiss it (and by what rationalizations) or whether THIS MUCH feedback of a consistent nature is worth looking at more deeply.

My advice to you (again, see *) is to slow down, be yourself, see this woman for what she IS and not for whatever future fantasies you’re projecting on her, stay present, and see what happens. She’s not a trophy, or a womb. Focus on what’s happening NOW between you - how you enjoy her thoughts and the connection you’re building. Maybe it blossoms, maybe it doesn’t, but you can stay present and enjoy it now for what it is.

Good luck.

* seeing as my own dysfunction in the area of romantic relationships (and life?) is well-documented, feel free to ignore me.

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fiby41
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Re: May-December Relationships, In-Vitro Fertilization, Freezing Eggs, and Other Considerations

Post by fiby41 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:39 pm

suomalainen wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:33 am

* seeing as my own dysfunction in the area of romantic relationships (and life?) is well-documented, feel free to ignore me.
This is wo/men sharing notes. You don't have to have all the solutions for your observations to be valuable.

ZAFCorrection
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Re: May-December Relationships, In-Vitro Fertilization, Freezing Eggs, and Other Considerations

Post by ZAFCorrection » Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:22 pm

Mister Imperceptible wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:51 pm
Well, if we are talking about Deep Adaption and the eventual reduction of the world’s population to just a few hundred million, you better believe I am looking to max out the stats of my descendants.

I am sure all of the polite people making themselves look good online will do well during the cataclysm.
Sometimes it is easier to go around the mountain than blast a straight hole right through it. Whether your ultimate goals are "correct" or not is not something anyone but you can say. But since your goal relies on people other than you, you got to spend some energy convincing them. If your goal is to breed MI-descendent ubermensch, then your goal needs to be repackaged for public consumption either through lying or omission. Which is arguably what people do on the day-to-day anyway if they aren't going on a neverending stream of consciousness rant. Don't get hung up on an unvarnished adherence to the truth at all times. Unless that really is your most important goal.

EdithKeeler
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Re: May-December Relationships, In-Vitro Fertilization, Freezing Eggs, and Other Considerations

Post by EdithKeeler » Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:23 pm

In reading this thread, it occurs to me how much we can over-complicate things (and I’m not casting shade, I include myself in the over-complicators anonymous group).

Seriously: if you like someone and want to be together, then be together. If you want to have babies, there are more ways than ever to accomplish that—adoption, IVF, donor eggs, get a puppy (my choice). It’s good to consider financial implications, but you’re never going to have perfect info. If you have doubts or concerns but still like each other, don’t get married or mingle finances, but be together apart.

This is an awesome time to be alive as regards those kinds of things—nobody has to get married if they don’t want to, there’s not much stigma around out of wedlock births, and science can make babies happen in lots of ways.

You can, however, analyze and plan all the fun out of it.

It’s not a bad idea to keep your hand near the emergency brake, but I really don’t think most people agonize and analyze this much about relationships. Pretty sure I don’t know anyone—except people on this board—who consider market attributes and moral philosophies when deciding to have a relationship....

My advice: Go have fun. Don’t think so much—get out of your head. Meet in person. Do you guys smell good to each other (my personal test for attraction). Use condoms. Take some trips together. Don’t get into financial stuff until you decide to get married or make a baby.

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Ego
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Re: May-December Relationships, In-Vitro Fertilization, Freezing Eggs, and Other Considerations

Post by Ego » Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:33 pm

EdithKeeler wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:23 pm
Do you guys smell good to each other (my personal test for attraction).
+100

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jennypenny
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Re: May-December Relationships, In-Vitro Fertilization, Freezing Eggs, and Other Considerations

Post by jennypenny » Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:46 pm

I thought it was just me. Sometimes when DH is out of town I wear his jacket because it smells like him. Warms me up in all kinds of ways.


And now I’ve officially derailed this thread twice. Sorry. :oops:

Fish
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Re: May-December Relationships, In-Vitro Fertilization, Freezing Eggs, and Other Considerations

Post by Fish » Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:51 pm

Mister Imperceptible wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:08 am
After rereading parts of the thread, my previous comment seems unnecessarily harsh and not really warranted after the more recent posts. I apologize and will take that back. The quoted post helps me understand your operating style and I can relate better now.

Mister Imperceptible
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Re: May-December Relationships, In-Vitro Fertilization, Freezing Eggs, and Other Considerations

Post by Mister Imperceptible » Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:07 pm

I am not a nihilist. I confronted that already. I am living with purpose.

I do have a lot of empirical data. Stories with women. My sympathies are always with them and, as I said in the OP (did you miss that part?), I do not like breaking hearts, because I have experienced it so much from the other side. When they cry, I cry with them. I feel their pain acutely. The superior quote from the Ben Franklin piece I linked in the OP: “The having made a young Girl miserable may give you frequent bitter Reflections; none of which can attend the making an old Woman happy.”

The woman I am talking with was hesitant to visit because she was afraid of breaking my heart. I said “My heart has already been broken 50 times. What’s a 51st time? The only assured way to not get struck by lightning is to never walk out the front door.”

I understand that, on the internet and in the current milieu, every man asking for advice on the topic of woman is going to be assumed an incel or red pill. It comes with the territory. But absence of love is not necessarily indicative of absence of sex. (Remember in the OP my dealings with the trophy wives?) I do not think desiring an attractive partner is misogynistic. I think it is natural and such desire exists for a reason. We’re no computers, we’re physical.

I also understand that the answer to every why begets yet another why (or why not) and by going beyond just asking plainly about IVF and freezing eggs, and allowing myself to become wistful on Sunday, I opened the thread up to a different conversation. I own that.

I will take a cue from Dr. Z and refrain from going on a never ending stream of consciousness rant. Because I will not be able to answer every subsequent why, at this time.

I am upset with no one.

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fiby41
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Re: May-December Relationships, In-Vitro Fertilization, Freezing Eggs, and Other Considerations

Post by fiby41 » Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:49 pm

Mister Imperceptible wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:07 pm
. Stories with women.

Aka gossip
I do not like breaking hearts, because I have experienced it so much from the other side.
There's an implicit expectection embedded in that. You cannot sympathise past human nature.
When they cry, I cry with them. I feel their pain acutely.
And then you wonder why they break your heart? If you can't be an immovable rock in such situation don't be there!
You can read generalised background information about my girl if you want to in my journal. There I've mentioned her dad died when she was 15 years old. I can guarantee you she'd have monkey branched long ago if I'd have joined her in the wailing.
You are hereby allowed only 1 let's sit down and cry moment for the entirely of your relationship.
The having made a young Girl miserable
No morals were instilled in me so remorse I don't feel any.
none of which can attend the making an old Woman happy.”
I don't mind as long as that woman's my mom.
The woman I am talking with was hesitant to visit because she was afraid of breaking my heart.
Perhaps she knows you won't be able to take it as you still haven't mustered the mental fortitude by the 50th time
I said “My heart has already been broken 50 times. What’s a 51st time?
Self depreciation is unattractive.

assumed an incel or red pill.
You care too much what other people think of you to be easily manipulated/brokenhearted.
I do not think desiring an attractive partner is misogynistic.
fiby41 wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 11:27 am
I have a two bullet point check list when looking for someone to be romantically interested in: attractive, available.
going on a never ending stream of consciousness rant.
MI is so hawt there's a stream of consciousness running down my thigh.

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unemployable
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Re: May-December Relationships, In-Vitro Fertilization, Freezing Eggs, and Other Considerations

Post by unemployable » Sat Oct 12, 2019 12:12 am

I'll tell you what, you've succeeded already. In getting us to care about how this infatuation with this chocolate unicorn of yours will eventually turn out.

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Lemur
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Re: May-December Relationships, In-Vitro Fertilization, Freezing Eggs, and Other Considerations

Post by Lemur » Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:10 pm

unemployable wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 12:12 am
I'll tell you what, you've succeeded already. In getting us to care about how this infatuation with this chocolate unicorn of yours will eventually turn out.
Its a bold move cotton. Lets see how this one plays out :D

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