May-December Relationships, In-Vitro Fertilization, Freezing Eggs, and Other Considerations

Health, Fitness, Insurance, ...
Jason
Posts: 2677
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:37 am

Re: May-December Relationships, In-Vitro Fertilization, Freezing Eggs, and Other Considerations

Post by Jason »

There is another scenario in which you don't get "beat" with the bar of soap, you get "beat" because of the bar of the soap. And in that instance, you are the one who keeps dropping it. I believe someone navigating your circles would be familiar with this phenomenon.

Mister Imperceptible
Posts: 1186
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:18 pm

Re: May-December Relationships, In-Vitro Fertilization, Freezing Eggs, and Other Considerations

Post by Mister Imperceptible »

I haven’t shied away from conflict in pursuit of truth. We are learning.

User avatar
jennypenny
Posts: 6452
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 2:20 pm
Location: Stepford USA

Re: May-December Relationships, In-Vitro Fertilization, Freezing Eggs, and Other Considerations

Post by jennypenny »

I'm not sure that 'conflict' leads to learning. I know I get hung up on language, but framing these discussions that way might land you in the I-ask-lots-of-questions-but-dismiss-everyone's-answers category on the forum, which would impede learning and erode the quality of the responses you get.

I'm also not only talking about right vs. wrong debates. If you find yourself thinking 'that might be true for most people/everyone else but not for me', you're fooling yourself unless you have a TON of empirical data to back up your position (which is rare).

ffj
Posts: 2130
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2010 3:16 am

Re: May-December Relationships, In-Vitro Fertilization, Freezing Eggs, and Other Considerations

Post by ffj »

"I hope everyone understands my being acerbic is self-defense as the crowd takes turns beating me with a bar of soap Full Metal Jacket style"


I think the concern is your age. Some of the ideas you are expressing most people age-out of at some point. I think we all have been nihilists at certain stages of our lives, but at 32 most people have had enough life experience in all aspects of life to sort out ideas that ultimately handicap themselves.

What struck me with your original post is not that your ideas have some basis in truth, but the immaturity in which they are viewed and interpreted. There is a bit of disconnect on how men and women actually behave, with generalizations taken too far. In my experience.

While seemingly harsh, you should be thankful people are being honest with you on an anonymous forum. The alternative is to replicate these ideas in real life with real people without a filter. That can get messy.

You should ask everyone EXACTLY what fired them up in the OP. I think that could be a healthy discussion, with some already having answered that quite well.

suomalainen
Posts: 725
Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2014 12:49 pm

Re: May-December Relationships, In-Vitro Fertilization, Freezing Eggs, and Other Considerations

Post by suomalainen »

If I may*, this thread has certainly had its moments, but the takeaway for me is this: you opened this thread with a wild tale (from the persepective of a disiniterested observer) and a question that basically is “am I being impatient?” You included vivid details of your beau, your attitude towards her, your thought process both of the present as well as the (far) future. Those details evoked reactions, some polite and helpful and others not, but all generally of the “hit the brakes, man” flavor. And as you and jp say, you became (understandably) defensive and combative.

But...you asked the question. You got feedback you didn’t like and confirmation bias kicked in. That’s all fine and normal, but if you didn’t really want honest feedback, you should have owned that. You can still own it. I posted about a relationship...conundrum...in my journal, but wasn’t looking for advice. I got shit on too anyway, but [shrugs] internet.

As to your question: yes you are being impatient. I can not identify the causes of that, although the mindset/thought process you detailed indicates that perhaps you are immature in your social relationships. That is hard feedback to hear. But you have received it. It’s up to you to decide whether you can dismiss it (and by what rationalizations) or whether THIS MUCH feedback of a consistent nature is worth looking at more deeply.

My advice to you (again, see *) is to slow down, be yourself, see this woman for what she IS and not for whatever future fantasies you’re projecting on her, stay present, and see what happens. She’s not a trophy, or a womb. Focus on what’s happening NOW between you - how you enjoy her thoughts and the connection you’re building. Maybe it blossoms, maybe it doesn’t, but you can stay present and enjoy it now for what it is.

Good luck.

* seeing as my own dysfunction in the area of romantic relationships (and life?) is well-documented, feel free to ignore me.

User avatar
fiby41
Posts: 1230
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:09 am
Location: India

Re: May-December Relationships, In-Vitro Fertilization, Freezing Eggs, and Other Considerations

Post by fiby41 »

suomalainen wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:33 am

* seeing as my own dysfunction in the area of romantic relationships (and life?) is well-documented, feel free to ignore me.
This is wo/men sharing notes. You don't have to have all the solutions for your observations to be valuable.

ZAFCorrection
Posts: 327
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2017 3:49 pm

Re: May-December Relationships, In-Vitro Fertilization, Freezing Eggs, and Other Considerations

Post by ZAFCorrection »

Mister Imperceptible wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:51 pm
Well, if we are talking about Deep Adaption and the eventual reduction of the world’s population to just a few hundred million, you better believe I am looking to max out the stats of my descendants.

I am sure all of the polite people making themselves look good online will do well during the cataclysm.
Sometimes it is easier to go around the mountain than blast a straight hole right through it. Whether your ultimate goals are "correct" or not is not something anyone but you can say. But since your goal relies on people other than you, you got to spend some energy convincing them. If your goal is to breed MI-descendent ubermensch, then your goal needs to be repackaged for public consumption either through lying or omission. Which is arguably what people do on the day-to-day anyway if they aren't going on a neverending stream of consciousness rant. Don't get hung up on an unvarnished adherence to the truth at all times. Unless that really is your most important goal.

EdithKeeler
Posts: 1058
Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2013 7:55 pm

Re: May-December Relationships, In-Vitro Fertilization, Freezing Eggs, and Other Considerations

Post by EdithKeeler »

In reading this thread, it occurs to me how much we can over-complicate things (and I’m not casting shade, I include myself in the over-complicators anonymous group).

Seriously: if you like someone and want to be together, then be together. If you want to have babies, there are more ways than ever to accomplish that—adoption, IVF, donor eggs, get a puppy (my choice). It’s good to consider financial implications, but you’re never going to have perfect info. If you have doubts or concerns but still like each other, don’t get married or mingle finances, but be together apart.

This is an awesome time to be alive as regards those kinds of things—nobody has to get married if they don’t want to, there’s not much stigma around out of wedlock births, and science can make babies happen in lots of ways.

You can, however, analyze and plan all the fun out of it.

It’s not a bad idea to keep your hand near the emergency brake, but I really don’t think most people agonize and analyze this much about relationships. Pretty sure I don’t know anyone—except people on this board—who consider market attributes and moral philosophies when deciding to have a relationship....

My advice: Go have fun. Don’t think so much—get out of your head. Meet in person. Do you guys smell good to each other (my personal test for attraction). Use condoms. Take some trips together. Don’t get into financial stuff until you decide to get married or make a baby.

User avatar
Ego
Posts: 4809
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:42 am

Re: May-December Relationships, In-Vitro Fertilization, Freezing Eggs, and Other Considerations

Post by Ego »

EdithKeeler wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:23 pm
Do you guys smell good to each other (my personal test for attraction).
+100

User avatar
jennypenny
Posts: 6452
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 2:20 pm
Location: Stepford USA

Re: May-December Relationships, In-Vitro Fertilization, Freezing Eggs, and Other Considerations

Post by jennypenny »

I thought it was just me. Sometimes when DH is out of town I wear his jacket because it smells like him. Warms me up in all kinds of ways.


And now I’ve officially derailed this thread twice. Sorry. :oops:

Fish
Posts: 546
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:09 am

Re: May-December Relationships, In-Vitro Fertilization, Freezing Eggs, and Other Considerations

Post by Fish »

Mister Imperceptible wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:08 am
After rereading parts of the thread, my previous comment seems unnecessarily harsh and not really warranted after the more recent posts. I apologize and will take that back. The quoted post helps me understand your operating style and I can relate better now.

Mister Imperceptible
Posts: 1186
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:18 pm

Re: May-December Relationships, In-Vitro Fertilization, Freezing Eggs, and Other Considerations

Post by Mister Imperceptible »

I am not a nihilist. I confronted that already. I am living with purpose.

I do have a lot of empirical data. Stories with women. My sympathies are always with them and, as I said in the OP (did you miss that part?), I do not like breaking hearts, because I have experienced it so much from the other side. When they cry, I cry with them. I feel their pain acutely. The superior quote from the Ben Franklin piece I linked in the OP: “The having made a young Girl miserable may give you frequent bitter Reflections; none of which can attend the making an old Woman happy.”

The woman I am talking with was hesitant to visit because she was afraid of breaking my heart. I said “My heart has already been broken 50 times. What’s a 51st time? The only assured way to not get struck by lightning is to never walk out the front door.”

I understand that, on the internet and in the current milieu, every man asking for advice on the topic of woman is going to be assumed an incel or red pill. It comes with the territory. But absence of love is not necessarily indicative of absence of sex. (Remember in the OP my dealings with the trophy wives?) I do not think desiring an attractive partner is misogynistic. I think it is natural and such desire exists for a reason. We’re no computers, we’re physical.

I also understand that the answer to every why begets yet another why (or why not) and by going beyond just asking plainly about IVF and freezing eggs, and allowing myself to become wistful on Sunday, I opened the thread up to a different conversation. I own that.

I will take a cue from Dr. Z and refrain from going on a never ending stream of consciousness rant. Because I will not be able to answer every subsequent why, at this time.

I am upset with no one.

User avatar
fiby41
Posts: 1230
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:09 am
Location: India

Re: May-December Relationships, In-Vitro Fertilization, Freezing Eggs, and Other Considerations

Post by fiby41 »

Mister Imperceptible wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:07 pm
. Stories with women.

Aka gossip
I do not like breaking hearts, because I have experienced it so much from the other side.
There's an implicit expectection embedded in that. You cannot sympathise past human nature.
When they cry, I cry with them. I feel their pain acutely.
And then you wonder why they break your heart? If you can't be an immovable rock in such situation don't be there!
You can read generalised background information about my girl if you want to in my journal. There I've mentioned her dad died when she was 15 years old. I can guarantee you she'd have monkey branched long ago if I'd have joined her in the wailing.
You are hereby allowed only 1 let's sit down and cry moment for the entirely of your relationship.
The having made a young Girl miserable
No morals were instilled in me so remorse I don't feel any.
none of which can attend the making an old Woman happy.”
I don't mind as long as that woman's my mom.
The woman I am talking with was hesitant to visit because she was afraid of breaking my heart.
Perhaps she knows you won't be able to take it as you still haven't mustered the mental fortitude by the 50th time
I said “My heart has already been broken 50 times. What’s a 51st time?
Self depreciation is unattractive.

assumed an incel or red pill.
You care too much what other people think of you to be easily manipulated/brokenhearted.
I do not think desiring an attractive partner is misogynistic.
fiby41 wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 11:27 am
I have a two bullet point check list when looking for someone to be romantically interested in: attractive, available.
going on a never ending stream of consciousness rant.
MI is so hawt there's a stream of consciousness running down my thigh.

User avatar
unemployable
Posts: 480
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:36 am
Location: Homeless

Re: May-December Relationships, In-Vitro Fertilization, Freezing Eggs, and Other Considerations

Post by unemployable »

I'll tell you what, you've succeeded already. In getting us to care about how this infatuation with this chocolate unicorn of yours will eventually turn out.

User avatar
Lemur
Posts: 553
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2016 1:40 am

Re: May-December Relationships, In-Vitro Fertilization, Freezing Eggs, and Other Considerations

Post by Lemur »

unemployable wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 12:12 am
I'll tell you what, you've succeeded already. In getting us to care about how this infatuation with this chocolate unicorn of yours will eventually turn out.
Its a bold move cotton. Lets see how this one plays out :D

reepicheep
Posts: 319
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2014 7:45 am

Re: May-December Relationships, In-Vitro Fertilization, Freezing Eggs, and Other Considerations

Post by reepicheep »

This thread has been utterly fascinating.

A couple of years ago, I experienced a watershed moment in my understanding of relationships and the possibilities they brought. I'd left a marriage just three weeks prior and was on the hunt for the kinds of activities Marquis de Sade only dreamed of.

That watershed moment came when I met a man in his 50's with multiple partners and a number of happy playmates and former lovers of all ages, many of whom are friends with each other. I am happy with him, two years later, and independently both friends with and intimate with other partners of his. He is not my only partner; indeed, I have a girlfriend I introduced to him. I enjoy more group sex now than any other variety. I don't know anyone else who manages so much relating with so little drama. He's been at this a long time. Many people find him very attractive.

He does not talk like you, MI. He is present. He listens. He creates a safe space. He brings passion and drive to his interests, which are many -- and include his talents in bed. Women flock to him because he sees them. He understands that other people see the world in ways fundamentally different than him. He brings no expectations or projections to his relationships or interactions. He is open to hearing, "No." He encourages, he supports, but he does not take responsibility for other adults. He does not build co-dependency or look for women who cannot take care of themselves. He owns his own shit. He respects his own and others' boundaries. He does play games with power, but only with people who want to play those games. There is consent and a shared language when he pretends to play with power -- none of this background manipulation/shady underhanded vibe you've got going on.

I met him and I realized that I do not have to meet and date and move-in with and marry and make babies and die with one person to have an amazingly fulfilling sex or romantic life. Or life, period. I met him and I realized that the purpose of relationships is -- or can be -- just to have fun with other humans. To learn about them. To understand them. To build joy together.

***

You want to have a child.

Why, exactly? Just to pass on your own "good", tall genes so your descendants can live in whatever hell-hole creates your predicted genetic bottleneck? How fantastically selfish. Your grand-kids won't thank you any more than you seem inclined to thank your relatives for the gift of being alive.

If you have some other reason for desiring fatherhood, and the child simply MUST be genetically related to you, there are many ways to make that happen without a partner in the picture. You can solve this problem with money, which seems to be your primary pursuit at present and thus more available to you than a willing womb.

You want to be less lonely.

There are many solutions to this problem. I suggest you start by hiring an experienced sex worker and cuddling with her. If you're feeling bold, I suggest paying her (generously!) to explain to you why you're struggling to find someone who meets your criteria for a mate. You might need more than one session. I suggest soliciting different opinions from different people.

These two desires are not related. You believe that the solution to your problems is to find a single someone who will fuck you, touch you, give you a kid, and not take your money. This is not the solution, it is simply a solution.

Jason
Posts: 2677
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:37 am

Re: May-December Relationships, In-Vitro Fertilization, Freezing Eggs, and Other Considerations

Post by Jason »

Sorry MI. I knew giving them computer access was a bad idea.

Mister Imperceptible
Posts: 1186
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:18 pm

Re: May-December Relationships, In-Vitro Fertilization, Freezing Eggs, and Other Considerations

Post by Mister Imperceptible »

reepicheep wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 3:48 am
He does not talk like you, MI. He is present.

.....

You want to have a child.

Why, exactly? Just to pass on your own "good", tall genes so your descendants can live in whatever hell-hole creates your predicted genetic bottleneck? How fantastically selfish. Your grand-kids won't thank you any more than you seem inclined to thank your relatives for the gift of being alive.

......

I suggest you start by hiring an experienced sex worker
It is good for you that you are happy with your life.

You don’t know me, even after reading whatever poor representation of myself I have given on the internet.

I agree, I am, like most people, selfish.

Thank you for passing judgement on the relationship I have with my grandparents, and seeing clearly what my goals might have to do with paying homage to them.

If I hire a sex worker, I will tell her as we are cuddling that my grandparents endured poverty and suffering so I might have the luxury of enjoying the moment and being present with her.

Jason
Posts: 2677
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:37 am

Re: May-December Relationships, In-Vitro Fertilization, Freezing Eggs, and Other Considerations

Post by Jason »

Mister Imperceptible wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:47 am

If I hire a sex worker, I will tell her as we are cuddling that my grandparents endured poverty and suffering so I might have the luxury of enjoying the moment and being present with her.
Interesting. My Pop-Pop, who survived the depression, told me he endured poverty so that I could hire a sex worker in order that I wouldn't ever have to cuddle like he did. Those were actually his dying words to me.

Mister Imperceptible
Posts: 1186
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:18 pm

Re: May-December Relationships, In-Vitro Fertilization, Freezing Eggs, and Other Considerations

Post by Mister Imperceptible »

Lessons from the Great Chain of Being

Locked