Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

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Augustus
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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by Augustus » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:36 am

BRUTE wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:08 am
brute hasn't noticed any IQ drop, but he gets very irritable after 3+ days of not eating. hard to concentrate, too. so probably not to be advised during work. brute isn't convinced any "fast mimicking diet" would yield different results, though..
I start missing things I'd ordinarily catch, and tasks take a lot longer. I think if I timed the eating right, right before work, a lunch snack, and something around 5 I could handle it.

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Sclass
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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by Sclass » Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:42 pm

I got curious after reading this thread. I saw a documentary on Amazon called The Science of fasting a few days ago.

I wasn’t feeling so well so I checked my blood pressure that day. I struggle with hypertension and self treat it by drinking water, limiting salt, fish oil, weight control and early retirement. But for some reason I spiked up to 155/110 a few days ago. My SO said I’d been living it up too much on salty restaurant food for many days in a row. It seems everywhere you eat out they salt, sugar and fat bomb you.

She said she’d get me back in line with her healthy burdock (yuck) root soup. I hate that stuff. So I protested “I’d rather starve than eat that.”

So here I am in this lovely predicament. I’m ending day three of my fast. The first day my blood pressure dropped to 130/90 after skipping just two meals. Now three days in I’m down to 117/80. I would have never thought of trying this but somehow this old thread bubbled up to the Active topics.

Man the second day was a doozy. Light headed. Mild headaches. Cravings. 90% of it was in my head. I didn’t have hunger pains but I was hungry in my brain. Day 3 morning I was dreaming about curry and basmati rice. My SO said I yelled out “that’s really good” in my sleep several times.

A friend was eating Cheetos in front of me tonight. Torture. Then she said hey, “Sclass how about I make some chocolate crepes.” I got to sit there and watch my SO and friend gobble down crepes and Dove ice cream bars. Aarrrrgghhh!!

My daily walk turned into an ordeal for day 2&3. I’m so weak on the hills. No energy. No muscle strength. Sometimes It felt difficult getting up out of a chair. My legs felt weak. Luckily this is going away tonight. Maybe I’m getting over the hump?

This has been a very interesting experience. Skin is tingly. Joints loosened up. Aching knees gone. I’m cold.

I don’t think I’ve ever gone beyond fasting for one day. I did some fasts for medical exams but those were 24hrs. This is a whole new level. I guess I grew up in a modern society that insisted I eat three meals a day and I always did.

Thanks for sharing. I wonder how long my hypertension will stay away. I don’t want to do this very often. Serves me right for indulging in restaurant food everyday. Not sure if I’ll break the fast on day 4. I have a lunch meeting tomorrow and I don’t want to explain myself there.

slowtraveler
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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by slowtraveler » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:08 pm

Fasts are amazing. I do 2 a week for 24 hours when I want to lose weight and it's the only diet I can stick to. Eat everything I want rest of the time.

Biggest challenge is breaking the fast with a small meal rather than binging. Binges make me tired and feel sick. Small meals make me feel good after fasts.

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BRUTE
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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by BRUTE » Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:37 am

Sclass wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:42 pm
... symptoms of adapting to fat metabolism ...
welcome to ketosis. it gets easier after day 3. it will stay easier the next time. if done a few times, Sclass will be able to just not eat for 2-3 and not even notice.

adding salt can actually help get over the headache and dizziness, but if the whole point is to lower blood pressure, maybe not.

enigmaT120
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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by enigmaT120 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:33 am

BRUTE wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:13 pm
or just water fast. a week's not that long.
Cheaper, too. I'm not trying to lose weight or anything, but I've started fasting on Friday's. Since I rarely eat before noon it turns into a 36 hour fast. Saturdays are rest days for me but I have no problems with my workouts on Friday. I think adding Sat. would be easy. I've never tried over 2 days. Don't see any point.

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Sclass
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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by Sclass » Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:14 pm

I’m in the fourth day. Cancelled lunch. This is more important.

Funny taste in mouth. Dry mouth. I’m a little stronger but going up the stairs requires effort unlike in my pre fast days. Thumb joints feel great. Hearing and vision seem more acute but it feels similar to THC intoxication if I can recall it. Still dreaming about food. Had a little insomnia last night but I just slept in. Blood pressure came in at 116/87 this morning. Shocking results. I wonder how long they’ll last. I’ll have to clean up my habits of course. I’m having visions of Kefta and Aloo Paratha...I’ll have a salad instead.

I’ve decided to end this tonight. I’ve made it close to four days. I’ll get more ambitious on the next go round in a few months. Right now I’m just freaking hungry. I’m going to start up slow tonight with some broth and fruit.

Never got to the “euphoria” part. Not too sure what enhanced brain activity would do to me given my abnormal mind. Happy with the blood pressure reduction without drugs.

Something that jumped out of the fog is that I spend a lot of time preparing food. I never realized it till I stopped eating. I literally freed up several hours a day if you include the shopping trips.

Thanks all.

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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by jacob » Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:42 pm

Day 23rd. ("I finally got abs"-edition.)

Hallucinations are getting stronger. Pretty sure Jesus/Kahless/Whoever just spoke to me. Or maybe it was a time-travelling Surak knowledging me on proper logic. I try to stay strong but all I think and dream about these days is eating the worst possible food stuff known to mankind, that is, a 50/50 combination of McDonalds happy meals and USA Today newspaper clippings. Food already deemed suitable for livestock these days. That I'd eat directly already---not just indirectly via pigs while calling it discount pork anymore. I'm not sure where this experiment is going anymore, but I carry on. Also, I can't get this damn theme song out of my head. It's like Britney Spears singing "One more time" over and over but worse.

Newspaper clippings.

Happy meals.

Plastic forks.

And napkins, useless ... useless... napkins.

Desolation.

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Sclass
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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by Sclass » Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:27 pm

jacob wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:42 pm
Day 23rd. ("I finally got abs"-edition.
:o

ducknalddon
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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by ducknalddon » Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:33 pm

Sclass wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:27 pm
jacob wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:42 pm
Day 23rd. ("I finally got abs"-edition.
:o
They aren't abs, they are ribs.

jacob
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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by jacob » Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:43 pm

It's abs all the way down, yo! :lol:

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daylen
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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by daylen » Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:50 pm

@jacob That's awesome. What have your activity levels been like?

The longest I've gone is three days. Time to step up my game!

Question: What is the relationship between how long you can fast and body weight? .. what about body fat percentage?

jacob
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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by jacob » Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:06 pm

Jeez peeps. I was kidding!!! # https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law

The longest I ever fasted was 24 or 36 hrs or so. After that I was so hungry I binged on tzatziki and pancakes (very dumb idea!) and proceeded to puke it all back up in short order. Also, people around me thought I was being anorexic. Pretty stupid approach... so goes various experiments twenty+ years ago. If I do it again, I'll be smarter about it.

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BRUTE
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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by BRUTE » Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:00 pm

daylen wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:50 pm
Question: What is the relationship between how long you can fast and body weight? .. what about body fat percentage?
there isn't a lot of research, but there's a little, and a lot of anecdotes.

there exists a study of a morbidly obese human male fasting for about 400 days straight, ending up at a regular weight. various anecdotes confirm that fat/obese humans can relatively easily fast for days to weeks on end without getting hungry. there exist anecdotes that humans who have low/regular body fat can't fast much more than a day or two before they start losing muscle mass (though water retention in muscle cells would be interesting here, would it all just come back after rehydrating?) and start getting antsy.

brute has read that there's a limit as to how much fat can be extracted from a cell of human body fat during any given day. brute forgets but the number has been estimated to be around 20-40kcal/lbs of fat/day, if he remembers correctly. so a 200lbs human male at 10% body fat would be able to metabolize around 400-800kcal per day.

this seems to fit the anecdotes relatively well.

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7Wannabe5
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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:03 am

@BRUTE:

That fact about daily limit to fat extraction is interesting. I will tell my cuckoo sister about that the next time she is at bottom healthy BMI and obsessing about the fat remaining on her thighs. I seriously believe that her extreme dieting practices contribute to her poor mental health incidents.

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BRUTE
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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by BRUTE » Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:28 pm

brute has talked about this before on this forum, but there are also various hormone levels necessary to mobilize different fat cells. this can vary genetically and depends on many factors like location of the fat cell, general "fat equilibrium" of a person, many hormone levels (adrenaline, insulin, cortisol, leptin, ghrelin, probably more).

for example, pre-menopausal human females will typically have more butt, thigh, and breast fat than males. males will mostly put on belly fat. after menopause, women also tend to gain belly fat. various ethnic groups tend to put on fat at different rates or in different spots. some east asian humans will develop late-stage diabetes but not gain much fat. blessing or curse? others are genetically very susceptible to gaining fat overall, or in specific places - thus the cliche of women of various ethnicities possessing superior posteriors. (brute cannot lie).

given that 7Wannabe5 has mentioned her posterior various times on this forum, and that her (bird?) sister probably shares a high percentage of genes with 7Wannabe5, brute would surmise it could be very difficult for said sister to reduce thigh fat dramatically. genetics.

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Sclass
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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by Sclass » Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:55 am

Finished up at about 3 1/2 days. Blood pressure is holding at normal levels. Simply amazing for me. I noticed my surgical scars softened up a bit too. Ten years later they’ve only grown and become more inflamed. This is the first improvement I’ve seen.

I’ve eaten two light meals and one normal one. Got diarrhea. Seems like this is common. Perhaps I changed up my microbiome. It feels like I’ve done a week of antibiotics.

I hope the change in blood pressure lasts for awhile.

Pretty shocking results. Thanks for sharing.

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BRUTE
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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by BRUTE » Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:42 am

scars, low inflammation, diarrhea, all common. brute also noticed he wouldn't get sunburn while fasting. not sure if good or bad.

NPV
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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by NPV » Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:29 pm

Inspired by this research, this topic and examples such as sclass, I am now about 64 hours into a fast (the goal is 72 hours as this is what the research recommends to reset the immune system). The only things I have been consuming are ginger brew (boiled water, ginger, only the water is consumed) and minerals (iodine, zinc, pink Himalayan salt). I have mostly been on some combination of IF and lowish carb paleo / bulletproof diet and occasional keto for a few years but have not tried fasting for more than 24-30 hours before.

Overall, I feel pretty good. No significant hunger at any point during the ~64 hours as long as I don't think about / look at food - other than habitual drive to go to the kitchen and get something to chew. There was a cliff about ~24 hours in when I was struggling to think fast enough to maintain a professional phone conversation - although I have also changed time zones by a few hours that day. After going to sleep soon after and waking up the next day I have been feeling fine. A bit less physical energy than usual and a bit less focus but also oddly a bit more mental clarity on open-ended thinking as long as I don't try too much to direct it.

I could see myself doing this occasionally - how occasionally depends on the key concern which is muscle mass loss. I often travel for work during the week and get some meal allowance so if muscle loss was not a concern I could even engineer a pretty nice "freegan" diet basically eating during the work week and fasting on the weekends.

What is recommended as the first meal to break the fast? Something like an avocado and some greek yoghurt to get a mix of nutrients and add some healthy gut bacteria while not overloading on carbs and hence prolonging ketosis for a few extra hours?

Augustus
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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by Augustus » Sun Feb 18, 2018 1:22 pm

On a side note, valter longo has a book published this year on all the research and the associated health benefits to expect. I just picked up a copy. I'll likely be trying out the fast mimicking diet soon. Would probably answer a lot of people's questions as to guidelines and what to expect. What intrigues me most is the stem cell activation to produce new cells in the brain, immune system, etc and possible prevention of diseases like cancer, Alzheimer's, and diabetes. I'm planning to do the fast mimicking diet once a month.

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BRUTE
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Re: Fasting Can Regenerate Your Immune System

Post by BRUTE » Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:16 pm

NPV wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:29 pm
What is recommended as the first meal to break the fast? Something like an avocado and some greek yoghurt to get a mix of nutrients and add some healthy gut bacteria while not overloading on carbs and hence prolonging ketosis for a few extra hours?
humans recommend all kinds of stuff from "keeping it light" to "fruit" and "bla bla microbiome blah".

brute has broken a 10 day fast with sausages and 6 eggs, cooked in butter, with a ton of shredded cheese. full? yes. problem? no.

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