Can one control one's thoughts?

[BRUTE]

And if you really want your mind blown, Chinese doesn't have a future/time tense. In other words, there's no language distinction between the present and the future.

it's not impossible to denote the past/future of events, but it's not part of the grammar. equivalent to "brute invest money next year" or "brute invest money last year". besides tenses, there are also no verb conjugations (brute go, jacob go, all humans go, nobody go).

there are various features English does not have: classifiers to denote the name of a set of items, similar to a "pair of jeans" or "heap of sand" in English. all sets of nouns have such words, often derived from their shape or use (food, flat items like plates or bread, cups).

brute is also fascinated by particles, small words often used at the end of sentences that change the meaning of the sentence, a bit like "isn't it" in English. these exist to denote a true/false question, various levels of politeness, the expectation of the truthfulness of the statement (~="isn't that right?"), changing how relative/temporary a judgement call is, and many more.

[sl-owl-orris]

@Brute @Jacob

Guys, thanks for your insights! This is really interesting for me and I will definitely look more into this subject. Fascinating stuff.

Another observation of mine - small-talk doesn't exist in Polish. If someone asks a Polish person "How are you?", you'll likely hear something along the lines, "I'm having a really bad day. I woke up with a horrible headache and then my dog got sick so I had to take hi to the vet. But because of that, I was late for work and my boss got mad and..." And so on. Polish people will just tell you the truth. If you ask a question, they assume, you are genuinely interested in the answer. Also, they tend to focus on negatives when talking with others, as it's considered bad manners to boast about good things in your life. If a Polish person would say something like, "I've never been better! I just got my blood results back and they are all excellent so I'm very happy about that!", other Polish people would think it strange, and get annoyed. You are not supposed to show that you're great and everything is working out for you!

On the other hand, I get quite uncomfortable when people in the UK are trying to be friendly and do the small-talk with me. Probably because it seems unnatural and I need focus on saying specific things they expect me to say and at the same time remember that they actually don't really care for the answers. Even more difficult if you don't lead a conventional life and any truthful answer can be highly controversial.

@sky

That's indeed a great example, where it would be very useful to be able to control one's thoughts. On the other hand, I had plenty of situations, where I had a problem I couldn't stop thinking about, and despite my efforts, my thoughts came back to the problem involuntarily. However, I would come up with solutions for example when trying to fall asleep or while taking the shower. It's not good when your thoughts deprive you of sleep or make you anxious, so it's good to have some sort of mechanism to switch that off, but at the same time, sometimes you need to let your brain mull over things to come up with solutions. I believe this was discussed before on these forums in more detail and with science to back it up.

[Smashter]

You need to look at the Polish history - living under Russian, Prussian and Austrian domination for 123 years, to gain sovereignty for 2 decades and then the WWII and German occupation, then Soviet rule and the Communism etc. In short, for centuries the majority of Polish people lived in poverty

A small price to pay to eliminate small talk

[BRUTE]

On the other hand, I had plenty of situations, where I had a problem I couldn't stop thinking about, and despite my efforts, my thoughts came back to the problem involuntarily. However, I would come up with solutions for example when trying to fall asleep or while taking the shower. It's not good when your thoughts deprive you of sleep or make you anxious, so it's good to have some sort of mechanism to switch that off, but at the same time, sometimes you need to let your brain mull over things to come up with solutions. I believe this was discussed before on these forums in more detail and with science to back it up.

likely an issue with misaligned circadian timing of various organs. the "racing mind at night" simply means the brain doesn't know it's supposed to be sleeping. light management helps.

[dirt]

An interesting example, there is an ethnic group called Kashubians (Kaszubi) and he speaks their language. Those people are thought to be very brusque and stubborn. Their language doesn't have a word for 'sorry'. They do have an expression meaning 'forgive me', but it's only used in very grave circumstances. Basically, they don't apologise for little things in life. The question is, did they lose the expression to say 'I'm sorry' because it wasn't used, or did they not develop it because of the way they carry themselves?

If you keep looking into this question and reading Whorf, you find people constantly arguing about "strong" or "weak" Sapir-Whorf hypothesis. The "strong" version says that language fully determines thought, whereas the "weak" only implies an influence. From what I have read, I don't understand why anyone thinks that Whorf ever meant to imply a deterministic, or even linear causality from language to thought. It seems clear to me that he had a systems understanding of the relationship between language, thought, and culture, just as Jacob has explained. Here he makes a generalized answer to your question while explaining the systems thinking:

How does such a network of language, culture, and behavior come about historically? Which was first: the language patterns or the cultural norms? In main they have grown up together, constantly influencing each other. But in this partnership the nature of the language is the factor that limits free plasticity and rigidifies channels of development in the more autocratic way. This is so because a language is a system, not just an assemblage of norms. Large systematic outlines can change to something really new only very slowly, while many other cultural innovations are made with comparative quickness. Language thus represents the mass mind; it is affected by inventions and innovations, but affected little and slowly, whereas to inventors and innovators it legislates with the decree immediate.

Whorf in "Language, Thought and Reality", page 156

[fiby41]

How does such a network of language, culture, and behavior come about historically? Which was first: the language patterns or the cultural norms?

[Myakka]

The simplest and easiest way to control one's thoughts is to choose a mantra (any word you like) and repeat that one word over and over like 100 times or more. In the process those thoughts I am obsessing on -- that I am in an endless rut with-- fade out. And afterwards I have a bit of peace for a while until my usual quite personally disturbing musings return to eat at me again.

[fiby41]

How Do You Stop the Mind's Chatter?

1 the wish to control ones thoughts is not absolute: we only want to control unpleasant (distracting) thoughts, we have no problem with pleasant thoughts

2 You cannot control any other of your internal organs- liver, heart, kidney etc. What makes you think your mind is any different?

3 analogy of traffic jam to explain- your mind is neither the doer nor the object on which work is done, it is the observer, a distant spectator

4 garbage in, garbage out: where your mind wanders when idle depends upon what thoughts you feed it when active

5 Axiom for 4: Diagnosis of mental diarrhea is, identifying yourself with that which you are not

6 Solution: Be with something, use it, without identifying yourself with what you are not

[7Wannabe5]

Well, T's like to make decisions based on thoughts rather than feelings, but modern research indicates that feelings feed thoughts. So, you have to control your feelings in order to control your thoughts. The easiest technique is to take your consciousness down to observation of your actual physical functioning in the moment. Your subconscious is constantly creating an in-the-moment map of your state of being in order to co-ordinate the functioning of all the complex systems within the complex system that is you within the context which is the current condition of your environment. Thoughts you are having concerning future or past you are like hallucinations or holograms. Entering into awareness of current reality will vanquish these hallucinations and elicit appropriate emotional state in pre-conscious.

For example, if you are writhing about in bed fretting about the likely performance of future you at some meeting, you perform a conscious scan of your physical condition, almost as if you were a baby in your own care. Do you have a headache? Are you dehydrated? Are your feet cold? Is there an uncomfortable wrinkle in the sheet? Is there a sabre tooth tiger in the room with you, or are you a modern affluent human in quite comfortable situation? Then you relax your muscles, slow your breathing, go night-night. Once you become very good at the skill of self-comforting, you can even help other more neurotic humans to go to sleep by sharing your rhythm, and you will be able to sleep well even in environments that are not very comfortable. Especially if you are able to enter into a state where you accept the inevitability of your own death.

[Smashter]

@7, I totally hear you, and I have had some success with those techniques in the past. But, I'm usually unable to calm down just by saying "there's no tiger chasing me, it's all going to be okay." It often feels trite, like telling myself I shouldn't ever complain about a meal because there are starving kids in Africa. Even though I know it intellectually to be true, it's hard for me to get out of my own silly head in that way.

I've had success lately with "loving-kindness" meditations. These are the ones where you visualize someone who loves you, and you try to see what you look like through their eyes. Then you visualize other people you love, and even people you have difficulties with, and you "send them loving energy." Sounds very woo-woo, but for whatever reason, this type of practice usually centers me. I'm forced to step off my personal thought treadmill if I'm actively thinking about how much I love another person.

[Ego]

In the interest of maximizing mental well being, can one guide or control the constant stream of thoughts in one's mind?

no

yes

It depends.

What do you mean by:

- guide or control?
- thoughts?
- in one's mind?

I think the different definitions may be at the heart of the different responses of Brute and Jacob.

Take the mind, for instance. Typically when people talk about their mind they refer to their conscious mind, the thing that provides the feeling of thinking. But that's only one part. There is a whole other part of the mind, the subconscious, that is doing a massive amount of work, like regulating blood pressure, directing hormonal secretions, conducting the symphony of our immune system and much more, all below the level of consciousness. It is also puking up thoughts into consciousness.

Without moving or shifting your attention, can you guide or control your pituitary gland to squirt out a shot of thyroid-stimulating hormone to direct your thyroid to increase your metabolism? Maybe a monk in some monastery somewhere who, through decades of meditation practice, has learned to control certain portions of his autonomic nervous system like this, but the average person cannot.

Same goes for thoughts. The subconscious is puking them up without much control from the conscious mind.

As far as I can tell, control comes in two forms. The mess your sub-consciousness pukes is a direct result of what it was fed. So, be aware of what you are feeding it. Second, when it pukes something putrid, you can, to some extent, decide whether to latch on to the putrid thought or not. But in order to do that you've got to notice what it is puking.

In its simplest form, meditation is just that. The conscious mind watching the puke happening.

Lovely thought, eh?

[Stahlmann]

I "read" this topic in 2017, but "didn't care". As I'm on binge for refreshing old topics...

___

For me, the easiest thing to learn has been to switch the internal monologue off. Learned that when I was 20 or so. While I tried sitting in seiza and focusing on my breathing, this didn't really work for me. I got more practice in during long daily walks (commute) when I would simply halt any thought (voice) that popped into my head. I did not need to focus on something else (like breathing). AFAIR, it was tricky for a few months, but now I can clear my mind of any thought at will. At least for a while. I'm not entirely sure how useful this is. (I don't swing very far emotionally.)

[For those who are trying and failing to halt and eliminate, try substituting nonverbal thoughts like kinetic awareness for an exercise routine.]

Next (mid twenties) I tried playing around with biofeedback. Focus on the tip of your index finger and keep the focus there. After a while, it will feel like it's tingling. Move to the next finger and get that finger tingling. With practice, you can move the sensation around. One finger at a time. All the fingers at once. With more practice, you can speed up the process. Ostensibly, you can use this to reduce pain although I don't think it works that well although it's better than nothing. It's easier to start with fingertips since there are more nerve endings there. It's also possible to raise and lower your pulse this way. This requires practice to maintain.

0o or even 0_0
I need to up my knowledge in this regards.
For fitst paragraph: Hmmm. Unbelievable. I heard about "thank you, my mind"-technique from ACT in 2014, but didn't use it much.
Second one: something completely new for me. Sounds like magic.

For the rest part of "quoted" post - magic one more time.

my 5 cents to the topic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOktN5fQYbE
(I was looking for topics in "mind"-area as a way to handle stress)

[fiby41]

When Arjuna used flickering, obstinate, turbulent, agitating and restless as adjectives and said to him it seems that controlling the mind is as or more difficult than regulating the flow of wind; Kṛṣṇa okayed and said "but through abhyAsa and by vairAgya" it can be brought under.
Bg6.34-35

abhyAsa means repetitions, practice, studies. In general anything that is or has to be done for a second or more times can be called such.

vairAgya meaning detachment is the 6th opulence in the list of knowledge, strength, wealth, beauty, fame and renunciation.

[EricaR]

In the interest of maximizing mental well being, can one guide or control the constant stream of thoughts in one's mind?

What are useful techniques to prefer positive, beneficial thoughts and minimize fear, anguish, worry or other types of negative thoughts?

I wish I could do that..But I can;t do it.. I always feel jealous when I see someone doing well or living well..I don't know why. Sometime the target person is not least connected to me. Neither friend nor acquaintance. Sometimes I feel, the main cause for all these things is my past life.. It was useless one..I didn't make right decisions at right moments and I always had a timid and weak personality. I want to let my past go. I'm trying to keep my mind calm..I don't need impurities in my mind.. Always try to think about different things when I get such jealousy feelings..

[catpepper]

I don't think you can control your own thoughts. but you can distract your mind into thinking about something else or not thinking at all.