Opportunity to move to Denver

[distracted_at_work]

Wanted to ask the group what they thought of a move from Calgary, Canada to Denver, USA. Things are moving really quickly now and I'm about to be mostly incommunicado from the internet for 3 days on a ski trip which doesn't help anything. The details would be doing essentially the same job I'm doing now (engineering/sales) but starting up an American division of our company. It would be much more challenging in the sense I'd be by myself instead of working with a team. The alternative is, oddly enough, hiring my cousin to do the job in Denver or take the job I currently have while I move to Denver. The choice is 100% mine. Pay would likely be the same but in USD with a relocation bonus.

Thoughts on Colorado? On the change in country? On Denver? On the opportunity to get a green card?
I'm single so my main attachments would be my friends/family and mountain culture that I enjoy here.

[suomalainen]

My parents recently moved to the Denver area and I have had the opportunity to visit them once. They absolutely love it - the outdoor culture, the sunshine, the mountains (hiking and skiing), all of that. From my visit, the place is booming, so there is a good vibe there, but at the same time, I think it pushes prices up, increases congestion, etc. Specifically, I think the Boulder area is supposedly out of control. As a prospective Canadian immigrant, maybe you should ping MMM for reactions...or I guess if you just read his stuff, you would get the sense that he loves the place.

No opinion on change of country, green card or being away from friends/family. Especially the last one is quite personal.

[distracted_at_work]

Thanks for the recco. I have read all the MMM blogs from day 1 so that example is certainly at the forefront of my mind. That thought spurred me to check out tax rates.. my total tax rate would drop from 33.5% to 29.6%. Not huge but something. Rent looks comparable. Food, alcohol and consumer goods are much cheaper. I'd have to consider health insurance for the first time in my life.

[jacob]

Denver is #1 rated in Captain Capitalism's Reconaissance Man book.

IIRC, you'll be filing three different tax returns there (Denver has a city-tax). COL index is through the roof.

[suomalainen]

If I were to move anywhere in the US, it would probably be Colorado. Been there many times - Durango, Pagosa, Cortez, Breckenridge and now most recently Denver. If you're starting the American division of the company, I assume they know they'll have to play by America's rules. In other words, you should make them buy you insurance. They'll have to offer that to attract any American employees, anyway. And they should probably hire a lawyer to advise you.

[distracted_at_work]

Never heard of a city tax, thanks for the heads up. Similarly, never heard of Captain Capitalism, from his own description of his book I googled:

it's for anybody who is either stuck, listless, or directionless in life and cannot see any other way out

I probably don't need to read it?

I'd certainly make the company pay for health insurance. I'd make that a non-negotiable point. You are correct we would need to do that either way to attract a decent employee.

[JuliusFC]

I moved from Vancouver to the Bay Area and would highly recommend you take this opportunity to move to the States! I lived there for 8 years and was very sad to leave. I would go back in a heartbeat.

When I worked as an employee my health insurance was always provided by the company. It is unlikely you will have to worry about that. There was sometimes a monthly premium but as a young, single person, it was comparable to the MSP premium we pay in BC anyway. And be prepared to find the actual health care to be superior to what you receive in Canada. Say goodbye to long wait times and say hello to finally having a GP! (Or maybe you're one of the lucky ones that has one.)

I'm guessing you'll get an L1 visa. Insist that they apply for a green card for you ASAP. Do not be wimpy like me. Once you get it, if you decide to return to Canada anyway, you can just give it up. But at least it will be your choice to return to Canada.

Don't forget to report your RRSP income on your income tax. You won't have to pay anything federally but you do have to report it. California does not recognize their tax-deferred status so I had to pay state tax on the income earned. I don't know about CO. Most Canadians don't do this (or even know they're supposed to). Most don't get in trouble, but why press your luck?

[The_Bowme]

I live in Denver and am lukewarm about it, but maybe just because it's getting very yuppified in the past years, and a matter of personal taste. That said, objectively it's pretty great. The weather is good, people are laid back, and the economy is great. Real estate has gotten very expensive and rents around 1200 for a one bedroom are fairly common, though some deals do exist. Rental market was very tight but lots of stock coming into the market and that seems to be loosening. There are a lot of homeless, but not like Portland or San Fransisco. Also the population as a whole is fairly suburban, though the core urban neighborhoods are pretty great, good community, nice housing stock, and I feel pretty safe throughout.

It's a good air transit hub, though bus transit is a mixed bag (routes infrequent, hub and spoke based system, public can be on the rough side). But the light rail is nice. It's pretty bike friendly, but a lot of the value here is for people who want to go into the mountains frequently, which does require a car, preferably a high clearance one. As a biker only, I do feel a bit out of place in that sense.

Musically, there is a lot of jam bands, and a big EDM community. There are some decent rock and metal bands as well, and we do get national acts a lot, though often on weekdays. There is some local art action too, which is either large or fairly small depending on your reference point. Also, there are mad millennials here. A majority of coloradans were born in other places, and young people have been fleeing less dynamic economies.

Let me know if you have questions, or would like to grab a drink if you do end up moving.

[The_Bowme]

Also, the craft beer thing is huge here. And if you're into the weed, this place is a Mecca.. The botanists and chemists and entrepreneurs are working their magic.

[jacob]

As for the change in country, the internation expat survey is interesting.

https://www.internations.org/expat-insi ... /usa-39228
https://www.internations.org/expat-insi ... nada-39207

(This is mostly from the perspective of people who are mobile and have their pick or at least a selection of which country to live in, so individual relevance may vary.)

[C40]

I've spent a lot of time in Denver and have known people who've lived there for ~15 years....

Real estate is very over-priced there. It went up something like 40-50% right around 2013 and, I believe, has been just slowly increasing since then. No signs of that stopping unless there is some kind of big crash again.

Denver is very spread out and car-centric. Depending on exact location, it can take unreasonably long amounts of time to get to types of places you'd commonly go (stores). There are exceptions - like a few walkable areas near downtown - like just southeast of it near Cheeseman park.

If you're single, Denver is a great place to meet women or men. Those more walkable neighborhoods are piping full of single women. Compared to other large U.S. cities, Denver has maybe the highest rate of attractive and datable people - mainly because people there are fit, and also because they aren't overly shallow and image/consumption focused like, say, Los Angeles.

Weather in Denver is going to be WAY warmer than Calgary, but never all that hot. Snow that falls this time of year often all melts within a few days.


Edit - also, the pollution in Denver has gotten pretty nasty over the last 15 years. If you fly into the city, you'll see it from the airplane windows. Inside the city, the view of the mountains to the west used to be clearer.

[CS]

Two words I learned from my month in Denver this year:

"Manver" - a nickname for the city due to loads of men there

"Subaru" - a ubiquitous all wheel drive car, rarely seen outside the state.

I had some 19 year old bash up my car there - but the police were good enough to track him down and ticket him and pass on the insurance info. Not sure that would have happened elsewhere, even with the license plate info, so I call that a wash.

Agree about the driving. If you go, take the time to find a good central location for where to live. (Hopefully your work is in a good spot and not out in the boonies.) You'll thank yourself later.

[distracted_at_work]

Thanks for the replies! From my own research and the replies here, Denver seems just like Calgary*.

*if it were further south and doubled in population.

@The_Bowme. Beer is on me! I'm hoping to get down there for work in the new year regardless if I end up moving. I can PM you when I figure out details.

@Julius. The RRSP tax bill wouldn't be small and I doubt withdrawing it and reinvesting into the Americann equivalent would be efficient. I didn't think of this, thanks.

@CS. I regret to inform you I am both a man and a Subaru owner haha. At least I would fit in. Sucks to hear about the hit and run.

In general regarding the States, I don't pay too much mind to the evil American talk that sometimes brews up in Canada. Whether it be for political or healthcare or gun reasons. I've met enough of y'all to know better

I did talk to my bosses about it this morning. We're all in agreement I should finish my professional Engineering licensure in Alberta before moving. Pending any other life developments I think I would really like to try the move. It would be fun! Timeline probably pushed to 12-24 months though and I'd join our American division rather than starting it.

[CS]

Haha! You WILL fit right in!

Congrats on making the decision.