35 and hating latest career change to teaching. Sinking into depression

Anything to do with the traditional world of get a degree, get a job as well as its alternatives
usherer
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Re: 35 and hating latest career change to teaching. Sinking into depression

Post by usherer »

ThisDinosaur wrote:
Sun May 07, 2017 7:09 am
Have you read any Tim Ferriss? His whole deal is applying the Pareto Principle to learning new skills and fields. Its analogous to Charlie Munger's suggestion to learn the 'Big Ideas' of every field to get a robust understanding of how the whole world works. The problem of applying this to making a living is that you constantly find yourself surrounded by people who've spent more time on the subject than you.
Exactly! I no longer derive joy from diverse knowledges. In my recent MA course, I relished going through academic papers, understanding the histories and multiple theories related to the single field of education, from angles of social justice, pedagogy and child development. It's alright to learn about how the world works, but at the very least, I feel I should have mastery of a single topic.

usherer
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Re: 35 and hating latest career change to teaching. Sinking into depression

Post by usherer »

Not sure how reliable Tim Ferriss' methods are: I can hardly find a mention of his latest achievements in horseback archery. He sounds more like someone who..is quite like me! Just learn a little, and move on. Polyglots who speak multiple languages and who are honest about how much effort they invest in their learning are better examples of mastery in several domains, no?

FBeyer
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Re: 35 and hating latest career change to teaching. Sinking into depression

Post by FBeyer »

usherer wrote:
Sat May 20, 2017 5:11 am
... You sounded a bit hard on yourself to sum up the situation as you being "inefficient in work and envious" (and here, you said you were "overthinking and overanalysing an unappreciated and overworked job situation" when you had so many things going on).
Well. The post you read was posted at a time were I was rather stricken still. So naturally my take on what happened is different/more nuanced now than it was then. :)

ThisDinosaur
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Re: 35 and hating latest career change to teaching. Sinking into depression

Post by ThisDinosaur »

usherer wrote:
Sat May 20, 2017 5:18 am
ThisDinosaur wrote:
Sun May 07, 2017 7:09 am
Have you read any Tim Ferriss? His whole deal is applying the Pareto Principle to learning new skills and fields. Its analogous to Charlie Munger's suggestion to learn the 'Big Ideas' of every field to get a robust understanding of how the whole world works. The problem of applying this to making a living is that you constantly find yourself surrounded by people who've spent more time on the subject than you.
Exactly! I no longer derive joy from diverse knowledges. In my recent MA course, I relished going through academic papers, understanding the histories and multiple theories related to the single field of education, from angles of social justice, pedagogy and child development. It's alright to learn about how the world works, but at the very least, I feel I should have mastery of a single topic.
Yeah, as a contrast, Buffett said something like, "list 20 things you'd like to be great at, then ignore the last 18." You can't really expect to be world class at more than 1 or 2 things at a time. Maybe in a lifetime.

JamesR
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Re: 35 and hating latest career change to teaching. Sinking into depression

Post by JamesR »

You might find it useful to read "So good they can't ignore you" by Cal Newport. There's a study that shows that in general, the longer people work in their job/field, the happier they are. The more skilled you are in your job/field, the more control you also have - you can command the salary you want or get business to agree to non-standard work schedules for example. So the combination of working in a familiar job/field & having control will give you more happiness.

This career change seems to be somewhat abandoning the previous 17 years of your work experience - your strengths seem to be related to writing, research, editing, and newsletters. It sounds like you're also interested in pedagogy & child development, and the MA gives you that opportunity to enter the field of education. Have you considered finding a job that plays to your existing strengths in the field of education? Perhaps help teachers be better teachers, instead of teaching children directly?

When I was coming back to the job market some 3-4 years ago with a crap resume, I was wondering whether to pursue a new career, get re-training, etc. But after reading Cal Newport's book, I decided to double down on my existing skills, even though it didn't seem that interesting. Within a year I got a great, low-stress, and high-paying job. The work played to my strengths so it was challenging and relatively interesting. I suppose I could've gone a more exciting route, but ultimately I'm glad I didn't because I don't respond particularly well to high-pressure environments, also after 3 years I'm considerably closer to ERE. I guess my point was maybe don't get too focused on an 'interesting' job and focus more on what your existing strengths are.

usherer
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Re: 35 and hating latest career change to teaching. Sinking into depression

Post by usherer »

JamesR wrote:
Mon May 22, 2017 6:55 pm
You might find it useful to read "So good they can't ignore you" by Cal Newport. There's a study that shows that in general, the longer people work in their job/field, the happier they are. The more skilled you are in your job/field, the more control you also have - you can command the salary you want or get business to agree to non-standard work schedules for example. So the combination of working in a familiar job/field & having control will give you more happiness.

This career change seems to be somewhat abandoning the previous 17 years of your work experience - your strengths seem to be related to writing, research, editing, and newsletters. It sounds like you're also interested in pedagogy & child development, and the MA gives you that opportunity to enter the field of education. Have you considered finding a job that plays to your existing strengths in the field of education? Perhaps help teachers be better teachers, instead of teaching children directly?
As my order from the library, Scott Adams' How to Fail at Almost Everything , just came in, I was hesitant about getting another book, so I made do with comprehensive review of the book (https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-revi ... 1455509124) instead.

I have thought about your suggestion - finding a job that taps on my existing strengths and current interest. The only idea I could come up with is going into curriculum development. A look at job ads makes me think this isn't quite feasible since they require teachers with teaching experience, and I would only be able to offer a year of experience, and that's in childcare with toddlers.

I have a primary school teacher friend who just told me she will be switching to becoming a educational psychologist, and I can see the common threads so clearly: working with children. I can envision very clearly the skills and experience she can easily transfer to her new work. But for myself, I am not clear at all. I need to find the threads between what I've done, with what I need to do.
JamesR wrote:
Mon May 22, 2017 6:55 pm
When I was coming back to the job market some 3-4 years ago with a crap resume, I was wondering whether to pursue a new career, get re-training, etc. But after reading Cal Newport's book, I decided to double down on my existing skills, even though it didn't seem that interesting. Within a year I got a great, low-stress, and high-paying job. The work played to my strengths so it was challenging and relatively interesting. I suppose I could've gone a more exciting route, but ultimately I'm glad I didn't because I don't respond particularly well to high-pressure environments, also after 3 years I'm considerably closer to ERE. I guess my point was maybe don't get too focused on an 'interesting' job and focus more on what your existing strengths are.
What is that low-stress, high-paying job that you've got?? Sure need one over here!
I wasn't after an interesting job, more of a job that would allow me to live out a better version of myself, hence I was looking for a job that balances mind and body, that allows me to be outside of a cubicle, that allows me to see impact immediately etc, but all these are not my better strengths..which is probably why I never thought of teaching as a career my entire life. At the same time, I think I had to enter the profession to realise that.

By the way, everyone, 3 weeks of St John's Wort is working well for me.

JamesR
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Re: 35 and hating latest career change to teaching. Sinking into depression

Post by JamesR »

usherer wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 4:22 am
What is that low-stress, high-paying job that you've got?? Sure need one over here!
It's mainly low-stress due to the company/manager/team & the job fit. I work as a web developer.

usherer
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Re: 35 and hating latest career change to teaching. Sinking into depression

Post by usherer »

That's true. I managed to stay for a year in a B2B tech content marketing company as my boss was visionary, compassionate and quirky. Wouldn't have been able to do so otherwise, to spend my days writing to heighten fears and induce spending. I heard that he has since changed though!!

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Viktor K
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Re: 35 and hating latest career change to teaching. Sinking into depression

Post by Viktor K »

Is there something about teaching that you don't like, or is it moreso the environment you're teaching in? I just moved back to China to teach there, and it is pretty hands-off. Show up to the 40 minute class, speak English, go home. You do this 3-4x each day, have the winters and summers off, and housing paid for. I can't say I'm stressed at all. You can pick up part-time work on the evenings and weekends if you wish. @<20 hours per week, I'm savings >75% of my income.

There's still some management at times, but it comes more in the case of super-conservative Chinese parents that make you show the kindergarten version of a Halloween movie to the middle school students, because we don't want them to get scared or start having bad thoughts.

thrifty++
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Re: 35 and hating latest career change to teaching. Sinking into depression

Post by thrifty++ »

Viktor K wrote:
Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:21 pm
Is there something about teaching that you don't like, or is it moreso the environment you're teaching in? I just moved back to China to teach there, and it is pretty hands-off. Show up to the 40 minute class, speak English, go home. You do this 3-4x each day, have the winters and summers off, and housing paid for. I can't say I'm stressed at all. You can pick up part-time work on the evenings and weekends if you wish. @<20 hours per week, I'm savings >75% of my income.

There's still some management at times, but it comes more in the case of super-conservative Chinese parents that make you show the kindergarten version of a Halloween movie to the middle school students, because we don't want them to get scared or start having bad thoughts.
Wow teaching in China sounds like an awesome gig. I had never thought of these remote teaching jobs. Always thought I was better off being a high pay/high stress professional in a western country but the more I hear of it the better it sounds. Sounds financially more viable.

Thecoalminerswife
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Location: Newcastle, Australia

Re: 35 and hating latest career change to teaching. Sinking into depression

Post by Thecoalminerswife »

Have read with interest your recent posts. Some similarities to my own work experience. I worked in the corporate world as a stenographer (when there were such jobs:)), a paralegal, PA etc. I really love working in general, but after twenty years and the increasing computerisation I came to the realisation that I needed to make a fundamental change. Like you, I decided on primary teaching. I completed the first year of my undergraduate degree and realised that (a) the course work was too limiting and (b) there was NO WAY I had the temperament for it!! After that first year at uni, I switched to a double degree majoring in Geography and Education, minoring in Law and History. I was very thankful that I did that year in the Primary teaching degree, and while I was very fearful that I could ever stand in front of 30 teenagers and be effective, I negotiated with myself that the other aspects of my degree would be useful should I never teach.
After those fours at uni, and at the ripe old age of 43, I started my first year of teaching in a temporary position teaching Geography. I worked in a "good" school with a friendly and helpful staff but it was still EXTREMELY stressful. Six times a day before walking into a new class, I felt like vomiting. Survival really. Unless people have been in the position, no-one really understands how challenging it is. Teaching can appear easy, but to do it well is very challenging. Anyway, after the first year I decided that that was enough for me!! Again, I talked myself through it - I had enjoyed the experience of going to uni, made lots of new friends during that wee journey, but ultimately teaching was not my gig.
I travelled to the other side of the world, again took a job in the corporate world. Not surprisingly, I HATED it! I had moved on. As I was starting to push the panic button, I had an email from the school where I had taught asking whether I could teach for one term - this time, in a different discipline (this time, History). I took the chance, went back home and LOVED it. I don't know what shifted - me or the work situation - perhaps a bit of both. The hard work continued. The stress was always there but lessened. I stayed at that school for ten years with great success.
So, for what it's worth, my advice would be:
(a) don't through the baby out with the bathwater. As suggested by others, leave this job and find another that uses the skills/quals from your MA.
(b) talk to a trusted mentor. This can be done informally - is there anyone in your industry that you respect or admire both in their professional and personal capacity. Some-one who will be honest and open with you.
(c) be prepared to listen to criticism as well as encouragement. As mentioned by others, it takes a long time to acquire deep knowledge and expertise in any given field. Kind but critical feedback is imperative for your professional and personal growth.
(d) hold fire on thinking about escaping from the work force just yet. Try and develop stability, skills and knowledge as well as cash on your path to FI. Since leaving my full-time teaching position, I have moved towns and lots of non-teaching work has simply dropped in my lap as a consequence of being available to take temporary and casual work. All reasonably well paid and interesting but work that I would never have been qualified or suitable for had I not stuck it out.
Good luck with your journey.

usherer
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Re: 35 and hating latest career change to teaching. Sinking into depression

Post by usherer »

@Thecoalminerswife, thanks for sharing your journey and well wishes. I will have to check if I can receive notifications via email, as I just went away and forgot this thread.
Thecoalminerswife wrote:
Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:34 pm
I worked in a "good" school with a friendly and helpful staff but it was still EXTREMELY stressful. Six times a day before walking into a new class, I felt like vomiting. Survival really. Unless people have been in the position, no-one really understands how challenging it is. Teaching can appear easy, but to do it well is very challenging.
PRECISELY. I am so much humbled by the experience, and realised that it is impossible for me to truly get the experiences of another person, and have since held back on 'advising' or assuming I can understand people e.g. mothers, people who are sick...and teachers.

The amount of work that has to be done before teaching is stunning. You have to ensure that what you do will work when you demonstrate it in classroom (which means trying it out at home first), prepare all the resources for the students (everything cut, all the powerpoints done), have everything ready, ensure your instructions are coherent and the students will get it the right way, BEFORE entering the classroom. And when you're in there, you have to be fully alert as to who is chatting, who is standing up for some reason, who is looking confused. And I'm haven' even got to the part where the students are doing the work, where we need to assess their work and make adjustments to the lesson plans. Too much for this INFP.
Thecoalminerswife wrote:
Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:34 pm
I took the chance, went back home and LOVED it. I don't know what shifted - me or the work situation - perhaps a bit of both. The hard work continued. The stress was always there but lessened. I stayed at that school for ten years with great success.
I would like to know what shifted!!
Thecoalminerswife wrote:
Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:34 pm
So, for what it's worth, my advice would be:
(a) don't through the baby out with the bathwater. As suggested by others, leave this job and find another that uses the skills/quals from your MA.
I've found there's such as thing as 'e-learning designer', 'instructional designer' and 'education officer'. The job ads give me cause to believe that I'm qualified for them, and I'm starting to apply for them. They only exist in larger cities like Melbourne.
Thecoalminerswife wrote:
Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:34 pm
(b) talk to a trusted mentor. This can be done informally - is there anyone in your industry that you respect or admire both in their professional and personal capacity. Some-one who will be honest and open with you.
I do have one.
Thecoalminerswife wrote:
Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:34 pm
(d) hold fire on thinking about escaping from the work force just yet. Try and develop stability, skills and knowledge as well as cash on your path to FI. Since leaving my full-time teaching position, I have moved towns and lots of non-teaching work has simply dropped in my lap as a consequence of being available to take temporary and casual work. All reasonably well paid and interesting but work that I would never have been qualified or suitable for had I not stuck it out.
Good luck with your journey.
I think the nature of the job clashes too much with my inferior strengths - reacting in real time, stimuli overload. I too crave stability and hate my lack of focus. I too wonder if I should just 'stick it out' or 'recognise when is a good time to give up'. It's frustrating at this age to not know the difference.

thrifty++
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Re: 35 and hating latest career change to teaching. Sinking into depression

Post by thrifty++ »

It sounds like its all so overwhelming for you ATM. I bet though that it will get easier over time and you will start to need to prepare less and less each time and the experience will be more normalised and less intense for you. But overall it doesnt sound like a happy long term solution for you. But hopefully things get better until you manage to segue into something else or grow enough money to ditch it without being too exposed.

usherer
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Re: 35 and hating latest career change to teaching. Sinking into depression

Post by usherer »

thrifty++ wrote:
Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:33 pm
It sounds like its all so overwhelming for you ATM. I bet though that it will get easier over time and you will start to need to prepare less and less each time and the experience will be more normalised and less intense for you. But overall it doesnt sound like a happy long term solution for you. But hopefully things get better until you manage to segue into something else or grow enough money to ditch it without being too exposed.
Thanks for your well wishes, thrifty. Many teachers have said it gets better after the initial five years. At the moment, I think it's utilising areas I'm particularly weak in (environmental awareness, communication skills), so the nature of the stress is not beneficial. Unlike writing stress, which thrills me!

Becoming financially independent might only be a reality in a few years, given that I haven't even done anything productive towards that end.

Hope all's well on your end!

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