Professionalism - Please Explain?

Anything to do with the traditional world of get a degree, get a job as well as its alternatives
TopHatFox
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Professionalism - Please Explain?

Post by TopHatFox »

Someone please explain what "professionalism" means? Can be in your own words, or in those of our office overlords, or a mix of both.

BRUTE
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Re: Professionalism - Please Explain?

Post by BRUTE »

for brute, it means these things:
- mentally separating work from personality, i.e. not talking about politics or family topics at work and the other way around
- taking (reasonable) hurdles or difficulties at work in stride, instead of giving up
- a certain combination of professional confidence through competence, and openness to learning from mistakes without a bruised ego
- adhering to certain trivialities like work attire, hygiene, formalities, phrases, depending of course on environment

bryan
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Re: Professionalism - Please Explain?

Post by bryan »

Behaviours/actions/things that conform to social norms within the context of or related to a profession. The proof and extent of one's being a professional.

Something like that. :lol:

Considering what makes someone a "professional" instead of an "amateur" (or actions/behaviours exhibited) brings up more colourful/useful imagery? Though it does go back to social judgements (one could be an expert professional in a profession but lack the common professionalism that constitutes that profession). :lol:

And now I wonder what everyone else thinks, so I checked wikipedia.. I guess there is a whole theory of being "professional" and "codes of conduct" and which came first. :lol: Seems like a signalling mechanism, primarily.

edit: reminded me of something I read.. the observation that breaking some codes actually influence others into thinking you may have a higher status/competence. "The Red Sneakers Effect" is what I re-called and just googled. I don't remember the gist of it; maybe you are such an expert/powerful you can poo-poo the rest? Still depends entirely on the dominant culture, I think. Silicon Valley has a history for preffering such folks. Weirdness seem to play well.

edit edit: and of course something else I just remembered "he who cares less, wins". I seem to have picked that quote up from Charlie Hoen back when I read Tim Ferris, Ramit Sethi.

Scott 2
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Re: Professionalism - Please Explain?

Post by Scott 2 »

The strategy is to be liked, easy to work with, and perceived as one of the team.

Most of the rules you'll see prescribed are tactics - dress, manner of speech, topic of conversation, working hours, etc. Life gets a lot easier if you recognize the driving strategy and pick tactics to suit your personality. It is totally ok to be "flawed" if you still meet the strategy.

For instance - I wear tennis shoes and athletic socks with my dress pants. I don't tuck in my polo shirt, cause I don't like to wear a belt. I constantly fail to make eye contact.

But, if there's a problem, I'm right there helping to solve it. If we hit crunch time, I will drop everything until it's done. I make a point to recognize the success of others in front of the team. I make a point to limit criticism to the smallest constructive audience, and only if I believe it will yield a result. I clearly and regularly communicate my appreciation for my job, the quality of my peers, and success of the company.

Yeah, my shoes are ugly. People get over it, because they want my help.

Tyler9000
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Re: Professionalism - Please Explain?

Post by Tyler9000 »

Thinking of the negative, when I hear someone described as "unprofessional" it usually comes down to some combination of unreliability and inappropriate behavior.

Just do what you say you're going to do and own up to your own mistakes, and unreliability won't be a problem. Inappropriate behavior varies by workplace, but some of the most common missteps by young people I've seen are arrogant and selfish behavior, not understanding the difference between office and club dress code, and generally being confused about the transition from "free speech" college to communal corporate life.

TopHatFox
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Re: Professionalism - Please Explain?

Post by TopHatFox »

Tyler9000 wrote: some of the most common missteps by young people I've seen are arrogant and selfish behavior...and generally being confused about the transition from "free speech" college to communal corporate life.
Tell me more about all that, especially "free speech college to ccl

Tyler9000
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Re: Professionalism - Please Explain?

Post by Tyler9000 »

Arrogance and selfish behavior most commonly manifest in self promotion at the expense of others. It's not limited to young workers by any means, but I've seen it a few times with ambitious new graduates who struggle with adjusting to an entry level role.

Regarding my "free speech" comment, the most direct problem is simply thinking that the office is an appropriate place to exercise your first amendment rights and beat people down with politics or other non-work-related topics. Nobody really cares, and corporations are not democracies. It's also a cultural issue that many new graduates do not yet understand -- here's a classic example. You can get away with stuff like that in college when you're the one paying the administrators, but that dynamic changes completely when it's the other way around and you're hired to do a job.

Earlybath
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Re: Professionalism - Please Explain?

Post by Earlybath »

A big club and you ain't in it[...], it's the same club they use to beat you.
I remember really struggling in my first and only professional job. I'd sit there looping two newly released Radiohead songs that reflected my view of what was being expected.

Fitter Happier
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HimvFbossU8

No surprises
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5CVsCnxyXg

I hadn't seen the video to No surprises, but its perfect.

Then earphones were banned for being 'unprofessional' and I got the hell out out of professionalism.

Spartan_Warrior
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Re: Professionalism - Please Explain?

Post by Spartan_Warrior »

In the context you're hearing it, it almost certainly means sheepish compliance to any ridiculous demand, willingness to value corporate profits over your own time (paid or unpaid), stoic endurance to even the most physically and mentally deleterious work environments, proper adherence to patriarchal white bourgeois dress code, fascist loyalty to the overlords up to and including surveillance and snitching of your peers should they step out of line, willingness to abandon most fundamental human and constitutional rights including free speech, freedom from unreasonable searches, freedom to use the restroom at your leisure, etc, as well as a fundamental lack of morality, individuality, or creative thought, and most of all the ability to keep smiling and ask for more, please.
bryan wrote:Seems like a signalling mechanism, primarily.
Basically this. Just signal that you are a submissive smiling chimp.
Last edited by Spartan_Warrior on Wed Feb 08, 2017 8:55 am, edited 2 times in total.

halfmoon
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Re: Professionalism - Please Explain?

Post by halfmoon »

I don't know a lot about office culture (just me in my sweats and slippers), but Brute's answer seems like great advice for fitting into all sorts of life situations.

How I practice professionalism as a self-employed accountant:

1. Always answer emails and phone messages the same day, even if only to indicate at what future point I'll have time to fulfill the related request.
2. Dress a little formally (in a boring accountant-ish way) when attending meetings or visiting a client's location.
3. Be friendly, but don't make inappropriate jokes or talk excessively about myself. My clients feel perfectly comfortable doing the latter, but it's their money.
4. Keep the client's best interest in mind at all times. Might be obvious, but when you need a fiduciary rule to force professionals to do this, maybe it's not so obvious. :?
5. Admit mistakes immediately and correct them immediately.
6. Can the ego. When you're retired, you can make everything about you. Until then...not.

TopHatFox
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Re: Professionalism - Please Explain?

Post by TopHatFox »

Spartan_Warrior wrote:In the context you're hearing it, it almost certainly means sheepish compliance to any ridiculous demand, willingness to value corporate profits over your own time (paid or unpaid), stoic endurance to even the most physically and mentally deleterious work environments, proper adherence to patriarchal white bourgeois dress code, fascist loyalty to the overlords up to and including surveillance and snitching of your peers should they step out of line, willingness to abandon most fundamental human and constitutional rights including free speech, freedom from unreasonable searches, freedom to use the restroom at your leisure, etc, as well as a fundamental lack of morality, individuality, or creative thought, and most of all the ability to keep smiling and ask for more, please.
OK, great, that's what I was thinking too.

Dragline
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Re: Professionalism - Please Explain?

Post by Dragline »

The flippant but true answer is "whatever your boss says it is or thinks it means". Different businesses have different expectations for things like dress, meeting etiquette, and how people address each other.

But the biggest struggle that many Millenials face when coming out of college without a lot of work experience and going to a corporate environment is that they treat their job like they are "going to class" and are still paying for the privilege, instead of being paid to be there and do something.

Basic faux pauxs that I see:

1. Not showing up on time.
2. Not showing up prepared to work (meaning not dressed properly, hung over, engaged in personal activities (eating, texting, etc.), not being ready to take notes and get instructions, left relevant materials somewhere else, didn't read the memo, etc.).
3. Not paying attention and being obvious about not paying attention. And turn off all reminders on your phone that can be heard.
4. Taking a "Four Hour Work Week" and/or "Office Space" attitude towards their work within a month of arriving and telling coworkers "this place sucks" all the time. [Which might be true, but its not a good idea to spread vitriol for a new employee especially.]
5. Unexcused/explained absences. No, you may not just wander off in the middle of the afternoon in search of treats or naps unless that kind of thing is allowed. And clear vacation/off time through whatever mechanism is provided for that, if any.
6. Failing to respond promptly to calls, emails and other communications from boss and other coworkers, making people waste their time by have to ping you more than once. The best email response you can give to someone who asks you for something is simply "Will do." [This is the most important tip you can learn.]
7. All of the stuff Brute mentioned about dealing with clients if you are client-facing, times 2.
8. Having and expressing lofty ideas of "changing the culture" of your workplace, which may have been there since you were 5 years old. That's not your job, unless you get on such a committee -- then it might be part of your job, but work within that system. You can make the culture around you pretty good by just being nice and respectful to people, though, even if other people are jerks.

As SW mentioned, having to deal with these things is part of why many people quit or leave corporate jobs. But it is "part of the job" and the larger the organization is, chances are the more "rules" they will have. Think of it as an incentive to keep your savings rate high.

Tyler9000
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Re: Professionalism - Please Explain?

Post by Tyler9000 »

Good list, Dragline.

Another way to think about it is that "professionalism" in a working relationship is the same as "respect" in a personal relationship. Re-read Dragline's entire list, but do it from the perspective of someone treating you that way on a date. How would you react?

distracted_at_work
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Re: Professionalism - Please Explain?

Post by distracted_at_work »

Great list Dragline, importance in order written I think. I'm surprised many of "my generation" cannot handle what seems so simple.

I'd add an addendum to #8. Changing the culture isn't a bad thing. Maybe when you arrive you find a stuffy office that could use a wine/beer night once in a while. Or maybe people will send an email instead of getting up to speak to a co-worker. As long as you lead by example and don't mouth off about changing the culture, there is nothing wrong with actually doing so.

To Brute's points. Nothing wrong with telling someone "great idea, I hadn't thought of that". You will make a lot of friends by losing any ego.

James_0011
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Re: Professionalism - Please Explain?

Post by James_0011 »

distracted_at_work wrote:Great list Dragline, importance in order written I think. I'm surprised many of "my generation" cannot handle what seems so simple.

I'd add an addendum to #8. Changing the culture isn't a bad thing. Maybe when you arrive you find a stuffy office that could use a wine/beer night once in a while. Or maybe people will send an email instead of getting up to speak to a co-worker. As long as you lead by example and don't mouth off about changing the culture, there is nothing wrong with actually doing so.

To Brute's points. Nothing wrong with telling someone "great idea, I hadn't thought of that". You will make a lot of friends by losing any ego.
Why would you care about "changing the culture" though? If you want to drink, it would probably be a lot more fun to just go to an actual bar after work and interact with people you don't have to play politics around.

bryan
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Re: Professionalism - Please Explain?

Post by bryan »

@James_0011, well, why wouldn't you care about changing the culture? Seeking change is an attempt to "make this world a better place," (the world that matters is the one in my head, after all?) I imagine. Granted, it might be easiest to migrate to a culture (company, (nation) state) that is more in-phase w/ your own thoughts on the matter ("if you don't like it, leave it").

James_0011
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Re: Professionalism - Please Explain?

Post by James_0011 »

bryan wrote:@James_0011, well, why wouldn't you care about changing the culture? Seeking change is an attempt to "make this world a better place," (the world that matters is the one in my head, after all?) I imagine. Granted, it might be easiest to migrate to a culture (company, (nation) state) that is more in-phase w/ your own thoughts on the matter ("if you don't like it, leave it").
I think along the lines of your last statement ("if you don't like it, leave it"), also its much easier for most people to leave a job than a country so I don't really think its a fair comparison.

Did
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Re: Professionalism - Please Explain?

Post by Did »

@Spartan Warrior Sir, you are on the money. That horror, for me, is ERE motivation. (or now, is motivation not to return to corporate life). Brain washing.

distracted_at_work
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Re: Professionalism - Please Explain?

Post by distracted_at_work »

@James_0011 I don't want to derail the professionalism topic but to your question. If I'm going to spend a number of years, 8 hours a day, 5 days a week in an office, I want to spend it somewhere I enjoy. For me, that meant organizing after work events to get to know people better in a different environment.

That's probably the least important aspect of "Professionalism" though. Don't be late, work hard, ask questions, be honest.

classical_Liberal
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Re: Professionalism - Please Explain?

Post by classical_Liberal »

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Last edited by classical_Liberal on Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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