Sociopath female boss

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wood
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Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2015 5:53 am

Sociopath female boss

Post by wood »

I'm fairly new in my office government job and its a fairly easy and comfortable job, with just enough wiggle room to also develop my work skills as well as other personally useful skills. Reflecting back at these last 4 months I'm pretty sure my boss (female age 50) is as close to being a sociopath as you can get.

- She lies in a way where she twists the truth, so its hard to prove her wrong with any form of evidence. And if I can prove her wrong, it seems like she doesn't listen to what I'm saying, uses her authority to control the conversation and eventually shuts me up because I don't see the need to raise voices and start fighting over things that in the end really just are petty to me.
- She can be extremely manipulative.
- She uses shouting, crying and lies to get things her way. She uses other people to get her way. She tried making a college agree to a lie about me (in order to make me look bad).
- She seems to be careless of the well being of our department. E.g. her loyalty goes upwards to the other bosses (which is normal), but all her decisions seems to go in the direction of her own self interest, and not the department or institution.
- It seems she doesn't have much of a social life and she is on/off with her kids' father.
- She doesn't do any actual work. She does some administrative stuff and fills her day talking to other people, alot of it is non-work related, and can spend 30 mins making a cup of coffee for herself.
- She twists facts and uses manipulation in order to look good in front of other people, e.g. takes credit for other people's work.
- She micromanages everything.

My best days seem to be the ones where I don't have to interact with her. Of course I can't know for sure that she's truly a sociopath, but all the signs are there and I'm struggling to deal with it properly. My colleagues would agree to everything I wrote above, although I'm not sure if they consider her a sociopath. I know a couple of them do.

My questions:
How do you, or how would you, deal with her? I've done some googling but I'm interested in your points of view as well.
I'm also wondering if anyone have any experience at all with sociopaths? This is the first one I've encountered since childhood.
And if you were to explain to me how a sociopath's mind works, how would you explain it?

Dragline
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Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:50 am

Re: Sociopath female boss

Post by Dragline »

Well, first advice is to avoid interacting as much as reasonably possible. Which probably isn't very practical.

If you think she is out to get you, make sure you document things via email or otherwise. But don't be obnoxious about it.

But most important, don't fall into the trap of trying to be the angel of justice. Its not your job to make sure she is not "getting away" with something or to take care of the department or the institution.

I would also try to get on her good side, to the extent that is possible. It may involve listening to her complain about other people and nodding your head.

I'm not sure I would classify her as sociopathic based on what you have said. But maybe somewhere on that spectrum, either narcissistic or a borderline (if she is also a drama queen). I bet she hates her job, feels incompetent deep down, and would not be surprised if she has debt-related issues and/or a hidden substance abuse problem. She may have felt that she was mistreated and/or undervalued in the past, which may or may not be true, and feels a need to take it out on "the department" or her direct reports. I.e., she could could just be bitter about life.

Read "Emotional Vampires" by Bernstein and "The Sociopath Next Door" by Stout if you get a chance. Lots of good advice in those about recognizing what you are dealing with and taking appropriate actions to deal with it.

George the original one
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Re: Sociopath female boss

Post by George the original one »

You have severe friction with a boss. One of you needs to go.

The Old Man
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Re: Sociopath female boss

Post by The Old Man »

Bottom Line: If you don't like it, get another job. Life is too short to spend it with difficult people.

BRUTE
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Re: Sociopath female boss

Post by BRUTE »

leave

FBeyer
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Re: Sociopath female boss

Post by FBeyer »

BRUTE wrote:leave
A government contract?
The amount you get paid, per actual unit of work is very high, even if the nominal salary is low...
I can see SOME benefits to Wood's job. All he needs to do is groom his boss for a promotion somewhere far away and all will be well. :D

Did
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Re: Sociopath female boss

Post by Did »

I worked for a female psychopath for years. I learned a lot from her: my trade pretty much. You can survive with these people if you align interests. That is pretty much how it works.

The question for you is whether or not there is anything to be gained in hanging around - money, skills, any other advantage. If not then manuver away.

The trick is to get what you what but not stay too long.

Eventually you become one of them....

Dragline
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Re: Sociopath female boss

Post by Dragline »

Curious -- is there any meaningful significance that this boss is a woman? What's the dif? It wouldn't be any better if it was a man, would it?

wood
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Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2015 5:53 am

Re: Sociopath female boss

Post by wood »

@Dragline: It's pretty irrelevant that she's a woman. 90% of middle management here are women.

Good point on aligning interests. Hadn't thought of it that way and I think it might work well to a certain degree. It can potentially damage the relationship with some of my coworkers, thats why I hadn't even considered such an approach.

What do I gain from staying with the job?

1. Job itself is very pleasant, easy money although I could make 10-20% more somewhere else.
2. Lots of perks, like reduced work hours from May-Sept (7h), lots of socializing (optional), given 2h/week for physical exercise, proximity to my home, no pressure to work extra time etc.
3. Avoid having my CV look weird. This is my 3rd employer in 7 years. I'd like to stay with this one and future employers would be very hesitant in hiring me if I quit this job after less than a year. I went for exchange between my 1st and 2nd job, so I can easily see how an employer would find me "unstable".
4. I really like my coworkers.
5. Its the government. Good pension, low risk of being fired and so on.

In other words, I'm secretly keeping my eyes open for being transferred and I'm not quitting this. Completely FI in 8 years.

wood
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Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2015 5:53 am

Re: Sociopath female boss

Post by wood »

@George the original one: I personally don't have severe friction with my boss, but there have been a few minor episodes that could have blown up if I continued stating my case. Every single coworker in my department have issues with her. Apparently, a couple years back, one of them took a 1 year sick leave because of anxiety from work.

I don't want to end up on sick leave or with severe friction with anyone, and I'd very much prefer to keep the job. Thanks for all the tips on how to deal with her.

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GandK
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Re: Sociopath female boss

Post by GandK »

Dragline wrote:Curious -- is there any meaningful significance that this boss is a woman? What's the dif? It wouldn't be any better if it was a man, would it?
That was my first thought, too, when I saw the thread title. I wondered if my asking that question would be perceived as PC or hypersensitive, so I didn't.

At first blush, she sounds like a high conflict person... someone with a borderline personality disorder who thrives on stress and drama and who, when backed into a corner, might create negative advocates. If so, standing up to her would cause trouble. I think aligning interests is the way to go, too; and perhaps you can get around any backlash by quietly encouraging your coworkers to do the same.

FBeyer
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Re: Sociopath female boss

Post by FBeyer »

Dragline wrote:Curious -- is there any meaningful significance that this boss is a woman? What's the dif? It wouldn't be any better if it was a man, would it?
From an outside point of view, it should not matter, but I have a completely unsubstantiated feeling that conflicts with a boss could be perceived as 'mere' misogyny rather than the boss being bat shit cray, if it was disclosed later that the boss was a woman.

I often find myself mentioning gender specifically, because I (used to) have contact with people who are so PC or feminist that any social altercation more than one sigma away from the norm would be perceived as me waving my dick in faces to get what I wanted by sheer force of institutionalized patriarchy.

In other words: the derailed feminist debate has me randomly adding gender to conversation because I can't recognize the next time I'll get pummelled for mentioning/not-mentioning gender in a debate.

Also: unless they have been taken down, Norway has a quota for the number of women in director's boards. The net effect of this gender-equality law has been that the same 15 women are in every major board for every major Norweigan company, because only those 15 women actually meet the criteria for the given companies. I think that gender has become a very sensitive issue when talking about managing positions in Norway.

FBeyer
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Re: Sociopath female boss

Post by FBeyer »

BUT!

Wood: it's been only a month since the last time you posted about your boss. From an outside point of view it look like she is VERY much getting on your nerves around the clock. Are you being paid to think about work 24/7?

Riggerjack
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Re: Sociopath female boss

Post by Riggerjack »

I don't get it. She sounds like a typical supervisor in a corporation or government position.

You don't have to like the people you work with, you have to work with the people you work with.

Disengage. Your job is to do your job, not to get your boss to put the interests of the organization first.

Get some headphones. Tune out til you transfer out.

FBeyer
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Re: Sociopath female boss

Post by FBeyer »

wood wrote:...
- She can be extremely manipulative.
- She uses shouting, crying and lies to get things her way. She uses other people to get her way. She tried making a college agree to a lie about me (in order to make me look bad).
- She seems to be careless of the well being of our department....
Riggerjack: are you seriously suggesting this is what office culture looks like where you're at? Or are you perpetuating the idea that all offices suck, and all bosses are Fucking Idiots(TM).

IlliniDave
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Re: Sociopath female boss

Post by IlliniDave »

I've utilized the cockroach theory of employment. When the light comes on, run and hide under the refrigerator. When it goes off, come out. Higher life forms come and go. I survive.

I've never let a supervisor get to me the way you have let this one get to you. I've simply outlasted the few bosses I didn't like and never became so obsessed with them it made me unhappy.

Wishing she were otherwise, or fighting her, will only make you unhappy. If you can't accept the situation for what it is and let your negative feelings go, and want your job to be a tolerable experience, then find another job/assignment where the environment is more to your liking.

SimpleLife
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Re: Sociopath female boss

Post by SimpleLife »

There are going to be some people problems everywhere. When it's your boss, it really sucks. Probably best to leave. Incidentally changing jobs every 2-3 years has been great for my career. People who change jobs every 2 years make 50% more than those that don't. It's the best way to negotiate your way up. Let the rats fight over small raises and promotions in house. Let your boss think she is right. Focus on getting a better gig somewhere else where you can be more comfortable and have opportunities before you rather than a brick wall of a boss.

Riggerjack
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Re: Sociopath female boss

Post by Riggerjack »

. Riggerjack: are you seriously suggesting this is what office culture looks like where you're at? Or are you perpetuating the idea that all offices suck, and all bosses are Fucking Idiots(TM).
Not where I am, but certainly places I've been. I read the previous tread by the OP, and yes, given that there are always 2 sides to every story, this seems typical.
Typical of relatively new employees to this kind of environment.

His boss is a career gov employee, in management. I would not expect her motivations to be any different than described. The tirades seem over the top, but not really a problem that would be dealt with unless the organization was FORCED to deal with it.

Most of the problems he described seem to be from getting caught up in drama. So I advised to disassociate from the drama.

In most organizations, people act in their perceived best interest, not the organization's. The larger the organization, the more blatantly this can be displayed without hurting a career.

The longer the average career at a work place, the more politics matter. That means you keep a problatic underling, is she has displayed loyalty, if possible. Her loyalty is more important than how she treats her people, or the productivity of her dept.

Gov work is the peak of both of those scales.

So no, I find that there is nothing out of line in the description, and I think there are good odds that will be his description of the boss at the new Dept he transfers to. Learning to deal with a difficult boss is a vital aspect of government employment.

enigmaT120
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Re: Sociopath female boss

Post by enigmaT120 »

If it's a U.S. Federal government job, I wouldn't expect the pension to be that tempting for an ERE type person, as the pension is only 1% of your high-3 average salary per year of service. I expect to retire at 56 and my pension will be 33% of my salary. Because, you know, I only read the book a year ago. There are other perks, but you have to stay to age 56 to get them.

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Sclass
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Re: Sociopath female boss

Post by Sclass »

wood wrote:
1. Job itself is very pleasant, easy money although I could make 10-20% more somewhere else.
2. Lots of perks, like reduced work hours from May-Sept (7h), lots of socializing (optional), given 2h/week for physical exercise, proximity to my home, no pressure to work extra time etc.
3. Avoid having my CV look weird. This is my 3rd employer in 7 years. I'd like to stay with this one and future employers would be very hesitant in hiring me if I quit this job after less than a year. I went for exchange between my 1st and 2nd job, so I can easily see how an employer would find me "unstable".
4. I really like my coworkers.
5. Its the government. Good pension, low risk of being fired and so on.
.
Sounds good to me. It's work. That's why you're paid to do it. I used to complain to colleagues at a job years back and an older guy said, "calm down and take the fine man's money." Even if I was carrying out the stupid orders of a stupid boss. You got an annoying boss but there is no firing. Do as a government worker and go through the motions till 5.

Like what RJ says. It's a job. If it's easy then focus on the hard part of tuning out the boss or running under the fridge when the lights turn on. The job sounds like total BS except for the money part (easy tasks with no penalty of failure and maybe no reward for success). Take the fine woman's money.

Welcome to the machine my son.

The part about getting a college to lie about you is worrisome. You seem to have attracted the boss's attention in a bad way. Maybe you're too smart? Maybe you stand out too much? Maybe you gotta dumb down. You know what they say in govt, "you can't kick a shit."

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