Sociopath female boss

[SimpleLife]

If it's a U.S. Federal government job, I wouldn't expect the pension to be that tempting for an ERE type person, as the pension is only 1% of your high-3 average salary per year of service. I expect to retire at 56 and my pension will be 33% of my salary. Because, you know, I only read the book a year ago. There are other perks, but you have to stay to age 56 to get them.

The thing I don't get about all the federal workers and their pensions, is if they realize the federal government is literally broke. I've watched the national debt nearly double in the better part of a decade. Do you really think the government is going to be able to pay that for much longer? It can't keep spending more than it takes in and expect things to go on as usual. Credit was downgraded already. It's only a matter of time before what happened in Greece or what's happening in Puerto Rico comes to us. I will go the local government route when I want a pension. I had a few offers recently and in the past, however; I'm getting while the getting is good in the private sector. When I want a slower pace of life, I'll take a local gov job.

[SimpleLife]

@Wood

You will find a version of her at every job you will ever have. If you find another job tomorrow, then someone like her will present themselves to you, without fail. Trust me on this.

As an INTJ, I notice the details of work dynamics all too well. It is a curse if you have to work with people too closely. It took me a long time to admit this, but really I am the problem in those situations. I used to have a supervisor who would smoke dope on her lunch break and come back baked for the rest of the workday. I literally could have done her job and mine better than if she hadn't even existed. It really used to piss me off until I realized management knew this and didn't care, so why should I? When work slowed down because she failed to do her job, then it was a break for me.

Don't become invested in what she does or does not do. Play it like the game it is and maintain your sanity.

Yes there will likely be another sociopath somewhere else he goes, but it won't likely be his boss. That's the key difference here, and most people quit managers not companies. Even if you have to deal with idiots and sociopaths at your company if you have a good manager who gets it, you will survive. If you have a complete moron or sociopath (besides being libelous, really who here is qualified to make that diagnosis over the internet based on limited information from one person without evidence or the other parties opportunity to defend themselves...If we are to think critically here, let's just call her an undesireable boss.) your life is really going to be miserable there. I'm all for realizing people suck everywhere, but try to find a place where your boss doesn't suck.

[Gilberto de Piento]

I will go the local government route when I want a pension. I had a few offers recently and in the past, however; I'm getting while the getting is good in the private sector. When I want a slower pace of life, I'll take a local gov job.

I don't trust a local or state government pension more than federal. Why would you want a pension anyway? If I could put my pension money in a 401k right now I would.

[BRUTE]

You will find a version of her at every job you will ever have. If you find another job tomorrow, then someone like her will present themselves to you, without fail. Trust me on this.

no. brute has never had a crazy boss like this, no matter if male or female.

there are jobs that suck only because they're jobs, not because you're being bossed around by sociopaths.

[OldPro]

Why should anyone assume the boss is the problem? I'll take the Devil's Advocate position.

"She tried making a college agree to a lie about me (in order to make me look bad)." That could as easily be interpreted as the statement of someone suffering from paranoia. It actually sounds to me like your boss questioned whether you really had the qualifications you said you had or not and checked up on you with the college. I would wonder what made her question that in the first place.

It is very easy to anonymously post a negative rant about a person or company on an online forum. Whenever I read one, it is the poster I wonder about, not the person or company they are writing about.

[skintstudent]

@Oldpro.

Why? That's some preconception to take into a discussion, although from your previous contributions, I believe it's genuine.

@wood.

There do appear to be some inconsistencies in your original post. Micro managing is hard work. Whether or not it's effective is doubtful in many cases, but it's not typical of someone doing no work. Unfortunately, as others have advised, you'll get ineffective or even downright pain in the backside colleagues in most workplaces. It's especially difficult when it's your boss. It seems you've worked out how to deal with it yourself - avoid interaction with her. It's not a solution, but in a large institution it may get you by until one of you moves on.

[GandK]

She also takes thirty minutes to make a cup of coffee, which shouldn't matter because she doesn't work anyway...

Of course it matters... anyone who takes 30 minutes to make coffee is likely as useless as decaf. That's a 60-second task.

[1taskaday]

30 mins to make a coffee BUT is she chatting while doing it?

I work with a few female "fruit freaks",who at coffee time spend most of their break at the counter chatting while cutting their berries and peeling their oranges/apples etc

My task every morning break time is to get the kitchen equipment I need before them,or else wait for it for ages nodding at their baby stories...

I think they think I'm a bit aggressive grabbing the equipment before them...but it beats having to listen to the baby stories...

[BRUTE]

...but it beats having to listen to the baby stories...

brute is amazed how humans are enslaved by their biological programming with regards to procreation.

[1taskaday]

At least Brute will not have to worry about that...as Brute is obviously on planet earth in an observational capacity only...

[IlliniDave]

She also takes thirty minutes to make a cup of coffee, which shouldn't matter because she doesn't work anyway...

Of course it matters... anyone who takes 30 minutes to make coffee is likely as useless as decaf. That's a 60-second task.

But if she's as bad as the OP contends, it should be the most glorious 30 minutes of the workday! I'd wish it took her 4 hours.

[IlliniDave]

The thing I don't get about all the federal workers and their pensions, is if they realize the federal government is literally broke. I've watched the national debt nearly double in the better part of a decade. Do you really think the government is going to be able to pay that for much longer? It can't keep spending more than it takes in and expect things to go on as usual. Credit was downgraded already. It's only a matter of time before what happened in Greece or what's happening in Puerto Rico comes to us. I will go the local government route when I want a pension. I had a few offers recently and in the past, however; I'm getting while the getting is good in the private sector. When I want a slower pace of life, I'll take a local gov job.

Federal is different because they print the money and they are disproportionately armed relative to the population (and the gap is ever widening). Non-government employees should be more worried about their assets being seized to pay the federal pensions than federal pensioners should worry about getting stiffed. The federal gov't can also make a de-facto grab on state/local pensions by cutting off the federal money so many of those governments have grown dependent on. And if you look around many state and local pension programs are already in crisis, orders of magnitude worse than anything in the federal purview, including SS.

The federal gov't may very well go broke one day, but they will be the last entity in the nation to do so, after having cleaned out everyone and everything else.

[IlliniDave]

@BRUTE

FFJ think BRUTE haven't worked long enough to discover this unpleasant reality. FFJ think BRUTE has been lucky thus far.

Then I'm even luckier. I've been employed for the last 37 years with 7 different employers and have probably had upwards of 50 direct bosses/supervisors/managers/leads in that time. And worked with and around another 150 or so. Only two of those 200ish people even approaches what the OP describes.

One I never worked directly for (he spent a couple years about thee levels up from me in a program hierarchy but resided in a different state) and never adversely impacted me. Some years after that I heard he was terminated but I'm not sure of the circumstances.

The second I've never even met in person, but a couple long-time colleagues I knew quite well briefly crossed paths with her a handful of years back. It didn't go well. One left the company (basically forced out when he attempted to stand up to her), the other saw that and found a transfer opportunity to a completely separate business unit within the corporation. A third long-time colleague and sometimes dotted-line supervisor of mine has crossed paths with her recently and readily learned how to coexist with her productively. But his tolerance of the personal quirks of others probably exceeds mine, and I'm resilient.

So on the one hand I know such people exist in the workplace. On the other I suspect my experience is not off-the-charts unusual in that many people probably skate through life without a true nightmare boss. Another thing I know is that some people see their bosses through hyperbole glasses. This is actually more common in my experience than true nightmare bosses.

What exactly is going on with the OP is hard to discern from a one-sided report of the situation. But it probably doesn't matter. The OP is unhappy and should try to find a more suitable assignment if he is unable to find a way to cope with the present situation. A relatively new employee taking down an established manager, especially in a bureaucratic environment, is too much of a long shot. The burden of change, fair or not, is probably on the OP.

[wood]

Thanks for all your thoughts and advice

The reason I'm asking around here is precisely because I don't want to end up in a situation where this annoys me 24/7 and where I end up leaving. I want to cope well with this, and even though Oldpro was quite far off in his assumptions as to why my boss tried getting a coworker to talk smack about my actions I appreciate the devils advocate approach. I think it was ffj who said to focus on what I can do myself, and not look to blame anyone else for my misery. Good advice. Maybe I sound like a b*tch for starting this thread, but it's always helpful for me to get my thoughts on paper so to speak.

I'm currently going with the strategy of:
1) Finding an escape if I'm alone with her. I've noticed she tends to get confrontational if alone with her. This is a strategy several of my coworkers are opting for too.
2) Think twice before talking with her. Prepare mentally before talking with her.
3) Be nice to her.
4) Identify and work towards mutual win-wins for her and me.

Apart from that I just do my job and enjoy every day as it comes.

[subgard]

It may be worthwhile to try to figure out how self-aware she is. Non-self-aware Cluster B personality disorders (borderline, histrionic, narcissistic, psychopathic) believe their own "narrative".

If she were not self-aware, she would believe her own story. Maybe of being a victim of incompetent bosses and underlings, or of having to be "tough". She would justify her bad behavior to herself, as well as to others.

A fully self-aware psychopath is a different matter. They know the "story" they sell to other people is BS, and easily change it for different audiences and circumstances.

Does she brag? Most non-self-aware Cluster Bs brag in a noticeable way. Fully aware psychopaths understand how bad it makes them look, and avoid it. Full-blown psychopaths actually come across as more humble than average.

How well does she pay attention to other people in a conversation? Non-self-aware Cluster Bs are usually looking for "supply" in a conversation- attention and admiration. Self-aware psychopaths are looking for information to use and are also usually trying to make themselves appear as nice as possible.


So, if she's not self-aware - Figure out what her "narrative" is, and don't contradict it. Most Cluster B narratives are fairly simple - they're perfect people surrounded by horrible idiots.

But, if she is self-aware - Don't let her know anything about you. Don't let anybody she talks to know anything about you. Be very ordinary and average. Draw as little attention to yourself as possible. Do not, under any circumstances, be drawn into any sort of game, intrigue, or drama.

[FBeyer]

@Dave
Maybe I have been unlucky thus far? I have worked blue collar my entire life where lots of behavior I've encountered would never pass the office test so maybe I'm projecting, I don't know. ..

If US blue collar is anything like EU blue collar, then I understand why you're projecting. Craftsmen aren't human beings to be handled by an HR department, they are meat machines and are to be treated as such. Office environments are vastly different from blue collar jobs.
Well, SOME office environments are vastly different... But in general construction is run by megalomaniac architects and douchebag engineers.

[jennypenny]

She sounds like a narcissist. In addition to Dragline's recommendations, I'll add Craig Malkin's new book Rethinking Narcissism. He has a chapter on dealing with malignant narcissists in the workplace.

[BlueNote]

Most of the bosses I have worked for were good people and easy to get along with. I have had a few bosses who exhibited bad behaviour, some similar to the OP's boss. In all cases I pretty much had to learn how to get along or quit, in one case I quit. The filters I once employed to get along with people's bad behaviour at work are starting to break down as a result of having FU money. I find myself providing a simple 'No' to many requests, it's actually funny to see peoples reactions when I do this. They're used to getting the run-around where someone will respond with an "I'll look into it" and then proceed to never look into it and hope the request just dies. I'll just say 'No' and provide a brief explanation of why (like 'No, I'm not a secretary so can you please schedule your own meetings", or "No, you don't have a business case so I'm not doing that").

[Shep]

My questions:
How do you, or how would you, deal with her? I've done some googling but I'm interested in your points of view as well.
I'm also wondering if anyone have any experience at all with sociopaths? This is the first one I've encountered since childhood.
And if you were to explain to me how a sociopath's mind works, how would you explain it?
[/quote]

I'm late to this thread but wanted to post as I have dealt w/this many time in my career with both genders. Best advice, buy the book "Primal Leadership," that talks about this very topic that is more pervasive than you might think and offers some good solution in dealing with it or at least surviving it with minimal damage until you either find a new boss or a new job. Sociopaths almost never get fired or leave.

Let us know how you're doing if you catch this.

[Farm_or]

Bad bosses. They were so common in my career that they are a major source of stories on my blog.
And that was only one of my coping strategies.

1) writing stories to myself. Later on I could see the ridiculous as humorous. Think Dilbert.

2) develop alternative. You must have hope for the future. No matter your job, you are ultimately an independent contractor. Bad bosses can be an excellent catalyst for a very positive change!

3) This too shall pass. In my experience, good bosses lasted on average a couple of years. Bad bosses lasted twice as long because fewer people want them.

4) Learn personality stereo-types. When I learned ​ to blame personality traits instead of the person, it made things easier to understand. It also helped me tailor my approach to them.

5) Don't add to the muck. Stake out the high ground.