Follow wife to other country vs. stay and take good offer

[belgiandude]

I have a dilemma.

I recently told my current employer that my wife and I plan to relocate to the USA (as she got a post-doc position at a university). However, my employer offered a hard-to-refuse counter-proposal: double salary and working in a 6 weeks Belgium/2 weeks USA-schedule.

That offer has some advantages:
- I have a significant amount of holidays (2 weeks for every 6 weeks working).
- I can retire within 2 years
- I have a fixed income (I still need to find an employer in the USA. I could start working for her professor, but I left academia after obtaining my PhD for some reasons )

But it also has some disadvantages:
- I won't be able to see my wife as much as I would like to.
- I won't be able to experience living abroad
- I would grow less as a person

I have to accept/reject the offer before Christmas. From a FI-perspective, it is a no-brainer (accept). From a life-experience perspective, it is a no-brainer (reject). Any advise?

[theanimal]

I'd reject it. There are things in life that are more important than FI. Significant time with those who are meaningful to you is one of them.

[George the original one]

Some people can live with that sort of schedule, some can't. I could probably stand it for 6-9 months, but no more, since I think the relationship (or my attitude) would suffer.

Financially, how much do you really gain if you're traveling to visit your spouse so often? Do you have to commit to a certain amount of time or will you be free to quit at any time?

[wizards]

If you can get such an offer from your current employer, you definitely have the skills to find a well payed job in the states.

FI is not the most important thing in life. I will definitely put spending time with love ones ahead of FI.

If she's the one go for the experiance without any doubt.

[jennypenny]

My husband has worked in a different city for 17 years. Most of the time he's only gone M-F, but we had a few years where he would be gone for 2-3 weeks, come home for 4 days, and then go back. We've never done a 6-week stretch.

We make it work. You just have to decide you're going to make it work, if that makes sense.

Why don't you take it and see if you can do it? You can quit and join her later on if it's not working out.

[wizards]

oh and btw I have som experience in such dislemas. I did quit my job (abroad) to go travel with my GF and later return to our home country. Never regretted this!

[1taskaday]

The advantage that stands out to me is the ability to retire within 2 years if you can manage to sustain the relationship.

I have often thought of working in a Middle Eastern country under a year and half contract to be able to retire earlier.
The thing that prevents me from doing this is my kids, I know the relationship with my DH would survive but the loss of this time with them at this stage in their development is irreplaceable.

If I was in your shoes and your partner was supportive of it, I would definitely give it a go. Short term pain long term gain and all that ... I always keep my eye on the prize-retirement in 2 years!

[jacob]

Some things you might not have considered?

The postdoc position is contingent on maintaining a J-1 visa status which means she is not allowed to work (for money) on anything else than the position the visa was granted for. The visa (the DS2019, actually) has to be renewed annually by the university (her supervisor decides). If not, the visa expires, and she has to leave the country. I believe you can get a visa as a married spouse, but I don't know if you, the spouse, are allowed to work/make money in the US. If not, you'd have to get your own work visa, another J-1 or maybe an H-1. Obviously, if you get the spousal visa, when she has to leave, you have to leave too.

After the postdoc expires (2-3 years), she'd have to find another position that will sponsor a new visa or an extention. This could be another postdoc, a professorship, or an H-1 for industry. In short, as a non-immigrant employment opportunities are very limited. Forget about consulting, starting your own business, etc. You can, however, invest as much as you like. Also, you can join the military [note that if you're under 26 on the day of arrival, you (all male non-tourists, regardless of citizenship) have to register for selective service anyway ... just in case the US decides to reinstitute the draft... it's the law.]

This arrangement is also known as the transatlantic brainslave trade. At its best the postdoc position is a form of continuing education in which the postdoc gets it over with an return to their native country and gets a real job. At its worst its a way for US universities to import cheap labor with zero leverage for negotiating their work conditions ("don't like your job, well you can always leave the country").

So depending on how flexible you (both) are, it might be preferable to maintain a homebase if things go south with the postdoc so she has something to return to---conversely, if you can live out of a backpack and easily find other hard-to-refuse offers when you return, you might as well go along for the two-year stay-at-home spouse "vacation". Also if the plan is to stay in the US forever, e.g. she gets a professorship offer, it would be better if you both go at the same time (once you're in the country, you're harder to kick out).

[Chris]

Every 1.5 months you work, you get .5 months. So in 1 year, that's 9 months working, 3 months off. Assuming your wife gets 1 month of vacation and spends it with you in Belgium, you'd be apart for 8 months of the year. Doesn't seem too bad (for me anyway).

I'm seeing 6 scenarios:

1. Take the offer, leave after 2 years, FI in 2 years
2. Take the offer, try it out, leave early, FI in < 4 years
3. Take the offer, wife returns to Belgium before end of postdoc, FI in < 4 years
4. Refuse the offer, find work in the US, continue FI path
5. Refuse the offer, don't find work in the US, ?
6. Refuse the offer, wife returns to Belgium before end of postdoc, ?

Is #2 possible, or is the offer contingent on you staying?
What's your contingency plan for #5 and #6?

[Riggerjack]

I'd go for it, if the new job could be quit. You get double salary, makes negotiations for your next salary easier. You get time off to look for a job in the states... if she's working while you are off, job searching doesn't cut into your time together. You maintain the home front, in case Jacob's examples are applicable.
on the other hand, if you had to commit to that schedule for a long term, probably not gonna work. That's a rough schedule on relationships, flying sucks, and the transatlantic tunnel is way behind schedule.

[SimpleLife]

Are you willing to risk your marriage to become FI a little earlier? If not, then don't. I wouldn't do it.

[Ego]

Could you do both? Take the job and get the visa. While working at the new job you could watch for interesting work opportunities in the cities near where she will live. If her situation is hell, she can come back. If your situation is less than ideal, you can go. Skype makes this much different than it was just a few years ago. Would you be burning an important bridge if you were to take the job and leave after six months. Would they understand if the separation just didn't work out and you had to quit?

Perhaps you could work the 6 week Belgium / 2 weeks US schedule for a couple of rounds to show them that you are useful to them even when you are in the US. Then you could lengthen to 5/3 then 4/4..... all the while collecting FU money and making them more dependent on you... then using that dependence to negotiate a partial or full telecommute position where you "work" full time in the U.S. without actually, officially "working" in the U.S. ....

[llorona]

What does your wife think?

[Chad]

Some things you might not have considered?

The postdoc position is contingent on maintaining a J-1 visa status which means she is not allowed to work (for money) on anything else than the position the visa was granted for. The visa (the DS2019, actually) has to be renewed annually by the university (her supervisor decides). If not, the visa expires, and she has to leave the country. I believe you can get a visa as a married spouse, but I don't know if you, the spouse, are allowed to work/make money in the US. If not, you'd have to get your own work visa, another J-1 or maybe an H-1. Obviously, if you get the spousal visa, when she has to leave, you have to leave too.

After the postdoc expires (2-3 years), she'd have to find another position that will sponsor a new visa or an extention. This could be another postdoc, a professorship, or an H-1 for industry. In short, as a non-immigrant employment opportunities are very limited. Forget about consulting, starting your own business, etc. You can, however, invest as much as you like. Also, you can join the military [note that if you're under 26 on the day of arrival, you (all male non-tourists, regardless of citizenship) have to register for selective service anyway ... just in case the US decides to reinstitute the draft... it's the law.]

This arrangement is also known as the transatlantic brainslave trade. At its best the postdoc position is a form of continuing education in which the postdoc gets it over with an return to their native country and gets a real job. At its worst its a way for US universities to import cheap labor with zero leverage for negotiating their work conditions ("don't like your job, well you can always leave the country").

So depending on how flexible you (both) are, it might be preferable to maintain a homebase if things go south with the postdoc so she has something to return to---conversely, if you can live out of a backpack and easily find other hard-to-refuse offers when you return, you might as well go along for the two-year stay-at-home spouse "vacation". Also if the plan is to stay in the US forever, e.g. she gets a professorship offer, it would be better if you both go at the same time (once you're in the country, you're harder to kick out).

Damn, we really need to change that.

[JamesR]

It seems like a no-brainer to get FI in 2 years THEN go to where your wife is. 2 years is nothing, you'll be able to visit plenty of times especially if you can adjust your schedule to 12/4 and go visit for a month every 3 months. Should be able to find a roundtrip ticket from Belgium to US for under $800.

[ashe]

What about asking your wife to stay in Belgium and for her to find another job?

You just scored double pay and jawdropping amazing amounts of vacation time. In the process you found out your real market value. You were underpaid by 50% this whole time. Congrats.

It's definitely easy for her to find a job in Belgium where you are established versus you finding a job on a spouse visa in the US.

W.r.t. your employer I assume you are paying for your own tickets, if she were to go to the US. Well now the both of you can instead enjoy a 2 week vacation in spain, greece, portugal, italy, etc, or your home country pretty much every 2 months.

Personally, I would never choose to be apart from my wife, my relationship with her is too important. You have to know what you want. Wish you the best of luck with how that turns out.

[pete]

Many post-doc jobs end up being crap with really long hours, so you're not going to see much of your wife anyway.
If you really do see that double paycheck, I would stay in Belgium. I would also step up the savings/investing. You could get by with a smaller apartment, houseshare, etc for the two years.
Spouse could do the same - find a house/apt to share with someone, live close enough to the job to walk to work.
Plan ahead on the visits -- not by doing touristy stuff - but by going somewhere to get re-acquainted. Meanwhile, keep in touch with that long distance speaker and camera on the computer. Find something you both have an interest in, and can discuss every night -- such as investing or what kind of future life you both want. Make sure spouse takes a photo album with her, plus a framed togetherness pix for her desk & nightstand.
If both go into active planning mode for what you want life to be five years from now, the two years should fly.

[belgiandude]

Thank you all for your replies.

Time to give a status update.
I applied for a work permit (EAD), got one, took one year off at my Belgian employer, and joined my wife in the southeast of the states. I received two job offers this week (base: 120k-140k). If any of the offers become reality (at-will employment is something weird), I should be able to completely save my salary.
Moving made me FI, as life here is cheaper.