Longterm unemployed or early retirement ...

[1taskaday]

I am off sick from work.The doctor advised me to stay off until it clears.Considering my work environment,that is pretty good advice if I ever want to fully recover.

Usually when reading posts from others who are sick and off work in the Winter,they are feeling down and very sorry for themselves.

Definitely not me,I am the complete opposite.Being an INTJ even though I haven’t been outside the door since my visit with the doctor,I am having the time of my life.

I can fill every minute of my life without being bored,without the need for any social contact ,and definitely without the need to feel accomplishment or recognition from external sources.

And by the way,I watch less than 1 hour TV a day,sometimes none.

What is wrong with me?

Have I arrived ??, like the Dalai Lama or Eckhart or have I simply dropped out of life to such an extent that I have lost any real sense of “normal” people’s purposes?

Whatever … I love it.

When I was thinking this through last night I thought this must be what early retirement is like …the ability to fill your day anyway that you want,always in great form and always full of energy.

Then I began my usual day-dreaming about being able to retire right now and could I live this simple life long-term? Would I get bored and loose my confidence? Would I have a reason to get out of bed every morning?

Then I asked my DH why does he think that the long-term unemployed get depressed and feel so isolated when to me this type of life is so amazing?

His answer (as it usually is),is that it’s all about money or lack of it.

But for myself I think as long as I had food,heat and shelter and of course my kids needs (not wants) taken care of ,why would anyone get down about not having money?

What can money fulfill if I have enough for my needs and want nothing?

A story that comes back to me when thinking this whole thing through is the 50 year old single acquaintance we met in a pub one night last year.

He had been made redundant from his 25 year factory job two years earlier.He had been at home unemployed for the full 2 years.Now he was all excited telling us that 2 months ago that he got a new factory job which was paying the SAME as his unemployment benefits.

He said the job in the new factory was very dirty often covering him with glass and sand while he was working.He was truly delighted with himself and glad to be back with a sense of everyday purpose and social contacts again.

Needless to say I was bewildered,why would he risk his health with a job like that when he could stay healthy and at home for the same money?Why couldn’t he fill his own needs himself everyday without his life’s schedule having to be dictated to him through a hard day’s work.

A few months later I heard that he lost the tops of two fingers while working his new job,the second person working that machine that this had happened to.

And yet after he recovered from this, back he went again to this same job,obviously in his eyes his mental health was more important to him than his physical.

My goal and passion everyday is to become independent of the need to sell my time for money … but when I reach this goal what then?

1taskaday

[champ0608]

… but when I reach this goal what then?

1taskaday

This is a very common fear displayed on these forums. Ultimately, the answers to your question are endless.

Tend a garden
Read
Go for walks and bike rides
Train for a marathon
Take classes at the community college
Write a book
Create a blog
Take up woodworking
Learn to play guitar
Learn a new language
Volunteer
Take up painting
Brew some beer
Pan for gold
Take some photographs
Get rid of clutter
Lean yoga
Meditate
Sit and listen to the fire

Do whatever you'd like. The options are endless.

[1taskaday]

I get what your saying Champ 0608 and agree the choice seems endless but that really doesn't answer the question;

Why is depression and low self esteem associated with long term unemployment when in a lot of countries they can have their needs met and a little more through unemployment benefits?

The example I gave is of a single man aged 50 financially secure choosing a dangerous low paid job rather than be early retired.

[George the original one]

Many people have a sense of pride that refuses to accept achieving financial independence when it is handed to them. They prefer to win a struggle. Doesn't matter if financial independence came from unemployment benefits, disability benefits, marriage, or an inheiritance.

[theanimal]

Don't you have to be actively searching for employment to receive those benefits? That would seem to be scamming the system IMO.

[jennypenny]

Maybe it's because the choice wasn't theirs. Kind of like athletes who prefer to retire instead of waiting until they are cut.

[1taskaday]

Interesting replies,

Is the journey towards financial independence the challenge and when we get there it may not be as exciting and as "all consuming" as the journey was ;

or is it something to do with an inability by some people to have a good self esteem if there is no external recognition.

I think it is more to do with the latter,which leads on to, dare I say it, a lack of self development or self awareness in some individuals of their own self worth and uniqueness in this world.

[Seneca]

This is a complicated question. Just some points that spring to mind.

*Not everyone is an INTJ.
*European attitudes about living on a government check (cheque? ) differ markedly from that of Americans.

Some people get real meaning from doing tasks that need to be done. Someone needs to do the job your acquaintance is doing, and it might be he gets a real sense of purpose from serving his fellow man in that way.

My grandfather retired several times, and it never took. He'd immediately become very deeply depressed, and it was only when he'd get back to work, he'd be happy again. It had nothing to do with needing money, or wanting to change levels of consumption, he just did not like sitting at home feeling like he was not contributing to the world. Doctors kept trying to medicate him with potent psychotropic drugs to appreciate being "useless" (his word), but driving a truck to slop hogs was the best medicine he found. The menial jobs he has taken over the last 20 years were ones many "intellectuals" would look down on, but someone needs to feed the pigs, and it gives him a real sense of purpose to do it.

There are many many writings about our innate need to contribute in some tangible way to society, in both eastern and western philosophies.

[1taskaday]

Seneca,I like that it makes me smile with joy for some reason.

[Seneca]

Seneca,I like that it makes me smile with joy for some reason.

I'm quite glad you took it that way, and not as a criticism of your preferred lifestyle, BTW. I was smiling as I typed- I was just with the old man last week, he's in his late 80's and still at it (though no longer for money in the last few years).

[EdithKeeler]

Why is depression and low self esteem associated with long term unemployment when in a lot of countries they can have their needs met and a little more through unemployment benefits?

I am much more depressed when I'm going to work....

However, I don't think I would be satisfied or content if I were living on unemployment benefits. I have no problem, however, living off of my own savings, etc.

[riparian]

Many people have just never considered entertaining themselves.

Even more are so miserable in their lives that they need to be distracted from their realities 40 hours a week.

[JeffD]

I always think that its a matter of perspective. Early retirees who are afraid to take the plunge may suffer from the feeling of being useless then become depressed. In that sense, we already assume that we have a purpose and doing nothing is a bad thing.

https://gist.github.com/rsms/3564654

[1taskaday]

JeffD, THANK YOU,this is an amazing link.

I will print it off and use it as a balm to soothe my soul when it feels like it is fading from me.

[Chad]

Why is depression and low self esteem associated with long term unemployment when in a lot of countries they can have their needs met and a little more through unemployment benefits?

A super simple answer is that most people are just sheep/cattle. They want to be told what to do. This includes being told what gives "worth" to their lives. They were told directly or indirectly since they were a kid that a job, especially a "good one", will make them who they are and give their life purpose. No job = no purpose in life for many, which leads to depression and low self-esteem.

[before45]

@1taskaday

An immediate difference I see between you and your friend is you have a DH and kids and you feel closely connected to them. Most people need social connection and interaction to avoid depression, even introverts, and people who live alone or who don't get sufficient social interactions with their spouses or roommates may feel a need for a job for social reasons. I'm not saying you can't get enough socialization without a job, but for many people a job is the easiest or even only way to get it.

I think loneliness is a bigger problem for most people than boredom. In fact I think a lot of what we call boredom is actually loneliness. And you can be lonely without being isolated if you don't feel connected to the people around you. For many, I'd guess, working with others gives them a greater sense of social connection than even living together.

Personally, in your position I'd be very happy too, and I'm happy for you--enjoy yourself!

[djc]

This is a really good thread.

When I fully retired I had spent about 10 years (my forties) in semi-retirement substitute teaching. It gave me an answer to "what do you do" and allowed me to continue to save and invest money. It also gave me a chance to socialize with others. Now that I'm at an age (50's) where at least some people are either in, or close to, retirement I don't feel quite the need to fit in with society. Its best, in a smallish town, to not try to stick out or to let others know you have substantial, in their mind at least, assets.

Now the thought of any type of paid employment sends shivers down my spine. I crave my free time and have never want to be in the workforce again. I also have no desire to continue to accumulate additional assets even though our portfolio isn't what the "experts" say we need to have.

Free time is the ultimate wealth astute people should work towards.

djc

[Seneca]

This site is obviously going to be pre-disposed against employment in general, and challenging the modern model is why we're here. Staying at a shit job that is not consistent with your personality, or not having had a job that was a truly great fit doesn't mean work is a dirty word, or that work is necessarily all bad. A job you might find deplorable might be one someone loves too. The desire to work is not necessarily a result of misery or depression, it does not mean you are shallow, or unfulfilled in other parts of your life to find meaning in even menial labors.

Zen and work-"A day without work is a day without food"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baizhang_Huaihai

The Buddha's Advice to Sigalaka
13. "These are the six dangers inherent in laziness: saying, 'It's too cold,' one does not work; saying, 'It's too hot,' one does not work; saying, 'It's too late,' one does not work; saying, 'It's too early,' one does not work; saying, 'I'm too hungry,' one does not work; saying, 'I'm too full,' one does not work. With an abundance of excuses for not working, new wealth does not accrue and existing wealth goes to waste."

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .ksw0.html

"’Tis a generous desire to wish to die usefully and like a man," - Montaigne

http://essays.quotidiana.org/montaigne/ ... _idleness/

In "On Idleness" Montaigne also talks about the problems idleness creates.

I should probably go find some Seneca too.