Thinking of being a teacher/coach of ERE principles

[jomby]

I can safely say that learning about ERE through the blog and book has changed my life (thanks Jacob!). I've made lots of changes to how I live and how I perceive things, and I'm well on my way to a free life full of lots of different fulfilling projects.

One project that seemed obvious to me was to have a blog with my own take on ERE. I had lots of ideas for posts, but kept getting stuck on the writing part, and something dawned on me. I realized that I should be putting these ideas out there, but in a different way. I thought back to when I studied computer science in graduate school. Writing a paper and knowing that x number of people were going to read it didn't excite me too much. But giving a presentation and seeing the questions people had gave me a thrill. And vibrant discussions of research ideas in the lab were always really fun. I guess it's the real, in-person interactions that do it for me.

To that end, I'm now thinking about becoming some kind of teacher/coach of the principles of ERE. One thing I'd like to do is give some talks to undergrads. I have computer science professor friends who bring people in to give talks on career paths for after graduation. I think it would be really cool, and possibly mind-blowing, to give a talk all about how it is possible to continue on with computer science, but do it all outside the corporate/government/academic system. I think students feel they have to take some kind of job using their skills within the system in order to justify their education, but I want to show them that you can still do your thing as a free agent, by applying some of the principles of ERE (control expenses, form a web of goals, etc.). I want to argue that the ERE lifestyle can be even more conducive to intellectual growth and exploration than lots of these jobs that have you buried in the minute details of one particular project for years.

Another idea is to offer one-on-one coaching to successful professionals in their 30s or so who may want to get out of the rat race. Where I live, there are tons of double-income, double-kids, have-money-but-no-time families. They see the benefits of escaping the rat race, and often have decent money saved up, but they have tons of fear of the unknown consequences of dropping out, and they have very strong attachments to the idea of being career lawyers, doctors, academics, etc. It would be really be fun to sit down with them and help them carve out an alternative path. Again, it's this idea of blowing peoples' minds in person that is very exciting. And with this, I could potentially make a little money in the process.

So, do you know of anyone out there who is doing this type of stuff? These ERE ideas are pretty damn amazing, and one would expect a Google search to turn up lots of powerpoint slides of presentations on the subject, videos of talks, etc. But I'm not seeing it. Is this stuff really still so "underground"?

[dot_com_vet]

I like the idea of talking to the college students. They'll probably listen.

Others will be a huge challenge. Even mentioning non-extreme early retirement to professionals is quickly dismissed.

[Dragline]

The good stuff is, as you say, "underground". One of the reasons is that most financial advisers are paid to sell products. No products -- no profit -- no salespeople.

Don't expect to make money at this. It could happen, but this has to be a labor of love, or a mission if you prefer. I expect you'd prefer the idea of building a Community of like-minded individuals through Technology.

I would not present these ideas in terms of "retirement". "Financial independence" or just "independence from consumerism" goes down much easier and would get you better results on search engines.

I really hope you follow up on your idea. It is great and worthy quest and we will help you here if we can. Every movement needs missionaries. Whenever I am about to head off on a quest or difficult task with others I watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRj01LShXN8

Be you "neer so vile" you are our brother.

[Chad]

I would not present these ideas in terms of "retirement". "Financial independence" or just "independence from consumerism" goes down much easier and would get you better results on search engines.

I agree with Dragline. Most people have one definition of "retirement" and won't be able to get outside of that definition. You would need name it something else. I believe Jacob has posted some issues he has had with the ERE name.

I disagree with Dragline on the possibility of making money off of it. It seems possible, especially if the erosion of the middle class continues (kind of counter intuitive), as they will be eager for a "leader." Though, I don't think you could make much money without writing (blog, books, Twitter, etc.) and it would take a long time to build a following.

And, good for you. I hope you are successful at it, even if you don't make money.

[GandK]

Never heard of anyone teaching on this stuff other than online.

I agree with the guys about the terminology. The philosophy we all call ERE encompasses so many things: frugality, long-term investing, personal freedom, personal responsibility, thoughtful use of resources (individual and global)... the list goes on. Many of those facets of ERE are already on the minds of college students.

[jacob]

I think it's a good idea.

Several people have asked me for coaching over the time. A few have been wanting to pay money for it too. However, as mentioned above, ERE people (even people coming to it) are a bunch of tightwads. For example, the ERE book is typically in the #50 range on amazon's selling list, but it's the #3 most wished books---people are very busy finding ways not to spend money. A few even get prissy when they're asked to spend. I've gotten a few bad book reviews simply because I'm not giving the book away. (E.g. "The book is good, but you can read the blog for free, so 2 stars").

That said, it depends on the way you present it---the form and the audience.

It seems to me that there are two kinds of coaching
1) The motivational rah-rah coaching wherein unmotivated people pay someone to keep them disciplined. E.g. you could do it on your own using DVDs and books, but you won't so you pay someone so you're guilted into showing up.
2) The exclusive expert coaching where you pay someone for knowledge that's not easily available anywhere else. You pay to get better than you can on your own.

I've written mainly for type 2. It's small, but it's hardcore. I could never do 1. Most of the requests I got was for type 1 coaching.

There's a bit of Wheaton log-scale to it too. The closer you teach to the middle consumer, the more people you have and the more they're willing to spend. Compare ERE to MMM who is one Wheaton level closer to the middle and who is 4 times bigger now than ERE ever was in terms of readers.

PS: It's also my understanding that YMOYL was primarily run as a class (lectures/seminars) selling books from the back. At least in the start. And that's the same target as ERE.

[jacob]

I would not present these ideas in terms of "retirement". "Financial independence" or just "independence from consumerism" goes down much easier and would get you better results on search engines.

"Early retirement" actually does get me really good results on search engines. Try it out.

It does have its issues but that's mainly from the 50+ crowd. One day, that is, some 40 years from now, they will die out and paradigm-victory will be complete!

[jomby]

It seems to me that there are two kinds of coaching
1) The motivational rah-rah coaching wherein unmotivated people pay someone to keep them disciplined. E.g. you could do it on your own using DVDs and books, but you won't so you pay someone so you're guilted into showing up.
2) The exclusive expert coaching where you pay someone for knowledge that's not easily available anywhere else. You pay to get better than you can on your own.

Either one is fine with me. I'm patient with people, and will just be happy to be talking about subject material I like with someone.

There's a bit of Wheaton log-scale to it too. The closer you teach to the middle consumer, the more people you have and the more they're willing to spend. Compare ERE to MMM who is one Wheaton level closer to the middle and who is 4 times bigger now than ERE ever was in terms of readers.

The financial payoff from this is no big deal, since it's just one of many gambles I'm making. I'll probably just market it in a way that is pleasing to me, and see who ends up being into it.

[J_]

Good idea, like to do it myself too. I am thinking how to approach people with interest. Do you have tips? Thanks also for the support for jomby of Dragline, Jacob and others.
OP please use this thread on how you are starting and getting results.

[jacob]

Here's a couple of ways I've thought about

1) If you live on a dorm, try starting a "lecture"-club where one person gives a 'fascinating' talk about a subject. I did that when I was an undergraduate gathering 10-15 people talking about "big bang", "nucleosynthesis" and other astronomy details. Danger: If you talk about money, you might be known as THAT guy. This could go either way.

2) Try to create a "Parks&Recreation" course. Lots of cities have a parks & recreation department where people can pursue sewing, email for seniors, karate for toddlers, nature walking, and what have you. Create an ERE course.

3) Make youtube videos. One person already asked me to do this but I never saw any vids. It would be cool if someone could do it RSA animation style.

4) Make podcasts or live interviews(?)

5) Get on Ted/X I just might do that if invited ;-P

In general, I'm quite open to anyone using the ERE moniker as long as it stays true to the original intent. Not really looking to score royalties or something there. OTOH I don't want the ideas corrupted.

[jomby]

I've given this "ERE coaching" thing some more thought, and now I'm leaning towards taking a "financial planner" approach. I will start reading the textbooks required for people taking classes to become CFPs (I expect this to be fun because I'm kind of a personal finance geek). Then I may actually take the classes, take the exam, and maybe even put in the required work hours to become an actual CFP (4000 hours?).

Regardless of whether I actually get certified, the ultimate goal will be to become a financial planner who can dig as deep as clients want to go. If they just want some help with establishing college savings plans and balancing 401K investments, fine. If they want to go further into investing theories and budgeting strategies, fine. If they want to go all the way to systems theory, thinking about resources in the abstract, synergy and robustness, dumpster diving, all the better!

I like helping all kinds of people, and pretty much just accept them for who they are. I'd bee fee-only with a sliding scale, would expect fairly low money but high fulfillment.

Anyone see any fatal flaws with this plan? Will I get sued into oblivion at some point for giving out a piece of "bad" financial advice?

[1taskaday]

I really don't know if the average person is ready for ERE.

My DH often says to me "I think you want to bring us back to the dark ages and wished you'd lived 100 years ago"

My son (14) thinks I'm a "hippy" and no matter how I try to grasp his imagination about ERE - he just tells me to stop talking about it.

My daughter (13)is definitely a disciple but also an INTJ-so that may explain that.

A lot of average(middleclass) people just can't grasp the concepts behind ERE.

I think people think I'm an eccentric because of my views and the way I live-which is really nearly "normal" to my mind.Nobody ever asks me the philosophy or really anything about what I'm trying to achieve.

I think the majority of people just correlate this kind of lifestyle with sacrifice and suffering, and will avoid it at all costs.

On a more helpful note, I think podcasting is a great idea.I will never go walking without listening to one.The Mad Fientist has released 5 good ones.

[jacob]

Yeah, there might be some kind of fiduciary duty that only allows conventional advice. Better check before you go down that road. Then again, by far the most people are looking for conventional advice.

As far as I know there are two kinds of coaching. The first is more like parenting, really, in which you pay the adviser to tell you what you really already should know how to do on your own except for lacking the discipline to do it. The adviser substitutes for the discipline. The second, which is much more rare, is for disciplined people who are looking to improve and need knowledge/information on how to improve beyond the basic level (of what the former groups know but lack the discpline to do).

You could see it as teaching morals (see Kohlberg) in that you will tell them the basic stuff while hinting/challenging them to think that there's a next step and a world beyond what they currently know.

[JamesR]

I would call this a form of "lifestyle design", and phrase it that way as much as possible. Why? Because people would recognize it from Tim Ferris and many other "lifestyle design" blogs out there.

[jomby]

It's been almost a year since I first had the thought of being some kind of ERE coach/teacher. This evolved into being an ERE-focused financial planner. I am currently studying for the series 65 exam, so that I will be a 'registered investment adviser' and hence allowed to talk about investing with clients. In the meantime, I'll be updating a blog weekly. I'm excited that this dream is finally turning into a reality! Check it out:

http://www.awesomesecrets.com/blog/

[5to9]

It's very exciting to see you following through on this. I am very curious to follow the journey and see how it is received by clients.