new section and question

Anything to do with the traditional world of get a degree, get a job as well as its alternatives
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vivacious
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new section and question

Post by vivacious »

New section. I like how fast things get done around here.

I think this is really one of the hardest parts. The middle class is getting smaller, inflation is going up, there's increasing global competition, earnings in real dollars were already going down, then the recession came though we're kind of coming back, etc.

Not to mention office politics and things like that, which have come up in some other threads like secretwealth's recent thread etc. To me that kind of thing is really the worst part. Not working really (ok maybe hehe) but the pettiness that often goes with it.

I don't think being frugal is that hard.

How about this. If you could tell someone 10 years younger than you some career advice what would it be? Let's see what we can come up with and make this part of the forum helpful.

JamesR
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Re: new section and question

Post by JamesR »

About 12 years ago I was semi-flunking university.

I had a summer job that was initially temp work with folders, but they ended up taking me on as a CAD designer. It paid minimum wage.

I ended up working part-time during the fall semester, then quit to "focus on university".

I really liked the work, and I found CAD design to be pretty easy. In retrospect, I might have done really well for myself if I had worked as a CAD Designer for 3-5 years and then used that work experience to launch myself into a high paying job.

It would have been nice if someone had told me:
"James, if you want, you can skip university and keep working as a CAD Designer. All you need to do is stay with your current employer for at least 3 years, do some professional development, learn everything you can about CAD, and then you'll be able to get super high paying jobs with your skills!"

So the career advice is "work experience & skills & professional development trumps university" :P

vivacious
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Re: new section and question

Post by vivacious »

Ya. That's not bad. What you're doing with your life is the important thing. A university degree may or may not give you the skills that you need etc.

Anyone else? Maybe we can try to make the work part of things as good as possible.

Making things efficient in other ways isn't that hard I think.

Felix said something about trying to arrange an 80% schedule or 4 10 hour days. Another decent idea.

What else we got?

Dragline
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Re: new section and question

Post by Dragline »

I honestly don't believe there is one bit of advice that I could say I would universally give to every person. I have to say I reject the idea of universal advice. If I had to give universal advice, it would simply be to read more books. At least one every week. Ideally, ones with conflicting viewpoints.

But assuming the person actually wanted advice -- which is a big assumption, because usually they want sympathy -- not advice, I would ask these questions:

What are your goals (next week, next month, next year, next five years, and then even further out) in these three categories: (1) Health/fitness; (2) Wealth/Career/Hobbies and/or other Activities That Require Skill; and (3) Social/spiritual?

What are you doing now that would help you achieve them?

What can you eliminate that will help you achieve your goals or free up more time and resources to work on them?

Work on the elimination process first (but avoid diuretics). Then fill the gaps with more things that are really useful to you.

Now laugh if you haven't recently.

vivacious
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Re: new section and question

Post by vivacious »

Ya. What I meant was what's one of the most important things you've learned on the job? Especially meta type information that applies in a broader way. Doesn't necessarily have to be for a person "10 years younger" etc.

Goals are certainly important though.

I was just wondering if we could think of some helpful ideas to get this section started etc.

Dragline
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Re: new section and question

Post by Dragline »

Ah -- well, you'll still have to read books.

Read "The Sociopath Next Door" (Stout) so you can recognize such people and reduce or eliminate your time spent with them. You may need to quit your job (or fire someone), leave your family (or divorce someone) or take some other drastic actions. Otherwise, they will suck the life out of you. You can't build before you eliminate.

After you have done that, read "Pillars of Prosperity" (J. Allen 1911), free here: http://james-allen.in1woord.nl/?text=ei ... prosperity

And take it to heart. People who adopt these characteristics tend to get hired and promoted more often than others -- at least that's what I am looking for as an employer:

"Let us briefly recapitulate, and again view the Eight Pillars in their strength and splendour.

Energy – Rousing one’s self up to strenuous and unremitting exertion in the accomplishment of one’s task.

Economy – Concentration of power, the conservation of both capital and character, the latter being mental capital, and therefore of the utmost importance.

Integrity – Unswerving honesty; keeping inviolate all promises, agreements, and contracts, apart from all considerations of loss or gain.

System – Making all details, subservient to order, and thereby relieving the memory and the mind of superfluous work and strain by reducing many to one.

Sympathy – Magnanimity, generosity, gentleness, and tenderness; being open handed, free, and kind.

Sincerity – Being sound and whole, robust and true; and therefore not being one person in public and another in private, and not assuming good actions openly while doing bad actions in secret.

Impartiality – Justice; not striving for self, but weighing both sides, and acting in accordance with equity.

Self – Reliance – Looking to one’s self only for strength and support by standing on principles which are fixed and invincible, and not relying upon outward things which at any moment may be snatched away."

Tyler9000
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Re: new section and question

Post by Tyler9000 »

"If you want to avoid regret at the end of your life, this one lesson about work is the one people over 70 were most adamant about—more than on lessons about relationships, children, and happiness: Don't stay in a job you dislike."

http://lifehacker.com/the-most-importan ... -963838889

paz
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Re: new section and question

Post by paz »

I've read it elsewhere, but the advice about marrying the right person is key. A friend of mine is in grad school and plowing through it full time and paying for it mostly with loans. She once told me that she paid for her ex's master's degree and then they got divorced afterward. She wants kids, the house, etc, but she's 30 now and feels she's running out of time. I still think she has lots, but having spent 5 years married to the wrong person cost her in both time and money (not to mention energy).

JamesR
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Re: new section and question

Post by JamesR »

Dragline, your posts come across as borderline threadjacks. They didn't really contribute to OP's question and went on to impose a different reality.

robotic
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Re: new section and question

Post by robotic »

The biggest thing for me would be the main lesson I took away from So Good They Can't Ignore You, which is:

It doesn't matter what you do, but how good you get at it, that determines (1) what you can achieve, and (2) how fulfilling your work can be.

If I could go back and tell that to my college-bound self, the impact would have been huge. The level of focus that that one takeaway has helped me develop in my work just over the last 6 months is incredible. And all those thoughts of finding the "right type" of work have slowly drifted away, and have been replaced with thoughts about learning and developing in the "right areas."

It's also very freeing to know that you could do virtually anything (that's valuable on the market) and be able to earn money and glean some level of satisfaction from it. That takes off a lot of the pressure of trying to find the perfect job.

bibacula
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Re: new section and question

Post by bibacula »

vivacious wrote:If you could tell someone 10 years younger than you some ... advice what would it be?
Know thyself.

By understanding yourself, you will be better able to live, learn and work. By accepting yourself, you will enjoy life.

I think that self-learning is easiest by studying others. We can glimpse ourselves in other writers and see ourselves in friends, family and co-workers.

riparian
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Re: new section and question

Post by riparian »

The most valuable thing you have is your self, so invest in it and take care of it.

Jobs will eat your soul. A life of quiet desperation is not for you or you or you. Perfect your hustle.

If you're making great money, maximize your opportunities and save.

fips
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Re: new section and question

Post by fips »

Kind of like the flying on an airplane - first take put on your own oxygen mask, then help your neighbour:

1.1. Find yourself (as in beliefs, goals, interests, skills).
1.2. Accept yourself (maybe comparable to what bibacula wrote).
1.3. Leverage yourself - when life gives you lemons, make lemonade (maybe comparable to what riparian wrote).*

2. Return to others what you have done for yourself. **

* Also for example comparable to what Brian Gaynor (young dancer suffering from Scoliosis) was described in auditioning:
His performance (although a later one):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2zYW8jxMu4
The comment, that he uses his physical disability to his advantage, see at 2:00 minutes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9bZu8hmyf8

** In the book "The Snowball" Buffett talks about that what becomes more important when you get older is not your need to make everybody happy, but to make those happy that you love.
I think there was another book about interviews of old people/those closer to death due to illnesses in hospices and they were asked the same question - what would you have done differently in life? (compare Tyler9000's reply on what is often regretted in life) Sadly enough, I forgot to write down the title (compare Dragline's reply on reading more books).

vivacious
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Re: new section and question

Post by vivacious »

Good stuff here. As far as making a weakness a strength there's a book called The Adversity Advantage. It reminds me of that Antifragile book and probably some of the ones listed in this thread also.

This thread seems good. Some of the ones on this site are worth coming back to even after they stop getting new replies.

BecaS
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Re: new section and question

Post by BecaS »

Know what you are worth. Know exactly what your time and your energy, your work and your loyalty are worth. Don't stick around in any situation: friendship, relationship, marriage, employment, etc. where you are underappreciated or where someone is taking advantage of your willingness to give 110%.

IMHO, there are two exceptions to this rule:

1. You cannot yet afford to leave a job, living situation, relationship etc. in which you are underappreciated, under compensated, etc. It is then incumbent upon you to work that job, leverage that income, negotiate that relationship, as hard and as far as you safely, legally, ethically can leverage it until you achieve the ability to walk away, or until/unless the situation miraculously and dramatically improves.

My life experience tells me that in the majority of situations, spontaneous improvement is not likely. If an employer, sig other, friend, roommate, etc. does not appreciate your best efforts now, they aren't likely to wake up tomorrow morning and spontaneously appreciate your best efforts then.

Right Now You is going to have to put your shoulder to the wheel to get Future You out of this situation.

The exceptions to this exception: If the situation is dangerous, unethical and/or illegal, get out now. Get the heck out while you are alive, intact and not in legal trouble.

2. Your children are not going to fully appreciate what you've done for them until they are emancipated adults, trying to do it for themselves. Kids get a pass on not appreciating and reciprocating your 110% effort and input. This does not mean that you have no boundaries with your kids- in fact, just the opposite. Kids learn healthy boundaries within their families. But don't expect spontaneous appreciation from your kids until they walk in your shoes.

Robotic, I don't mean to pick on your post, but it did bring to mind some situations in which I've found myself. The opposite of "too good to ignore" is "the curse of competence."

I've found myself in situations where my competence, willingness to work, ability to handle a heavy load, heck, even my additional education and certifications meant that more and more got dumped in my lap.

I could have demanded additional compensation, but that would have made me complicit with the increasing burden. It (rather quickly) got to the point where I didn't want to be complicit with it- I really thought it was a bad idea on a number of levels. At that point, I had to revert back to #1 of my exceptions: I had to work that job as hard as I could until I could afford to leave that job.

I look back now and I shake my head. If I had it to go over again, I would have left that entire career at a much younger age. In fact, I wouldn't have gone there in the first place.

If giving it your all doesn't yield good results- GET GONE. It's not going to get any better. Trust me on this.

thebbqguy
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Re: new section and question

Post by thebbqguy »

My advice would be to do the absolute best you can in high school and attain a good, solid GPA. If you can obtain scholarships instead of getting loans for college, you can graduate from college debt free. It will save you a ton of money and get you to ERE much, much faster.

If you can't get academic scholarships for 100% of the cost consider various programs offered by the military services.

I pieced together a 4 year academic scholarship for room and board from my college with a 4 year ROTC scholarship and graduated debt free. If I can do it, just about anyone could if they really "wanted" to.

No one is going to give you anything in life. You are going to have to work for it.

My observations is that young people have no trouble racking up debt thinking that they will be the exception rather than the rule and earn more money than any of their friends do to eventually pay if off "in a year or two". I see this with my nieces and nephews a lot. The trouble is they have never quite earned the money they thought they would and they still have the debt eating into their budget.

jacob
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Re: new section and question

Post by jacob »

thebbqguy wrote: My observations is that young people have no trouble racking up debt thinking that they will be the exception rather than the rule and earn more money than any of their friends do to eventually pay if off "in a year or two".
My observation too. From a random niece's facebook conversation:
Q: "How many from our high school do you think will [make it big]?"
A: "60%"

Whereas in reality, the answer is probably closer to <5%.

brighteye
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Re: new section and question

Post by brighteye »

My advice would be to not only focus on acquiring theoretical knowledge (which is what I did). Now I feel I lack credibility in my job and a firm fundament of skills. Either learn a trade and then go to a university of applied sciences.
Or if you want to go to college straight away, work/learn a trade in your semester breaks.
I guess you could call it: Build up your antifragility.

Sigmund
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Re: new section and question

Post by Sigmund »

An advice to a 10 years younger myself: "save, save, save". I saved a lot compared to the standard 10% advice, but it gave me a false sense of doing the right thing. The right thing would be saving at least 50%+.

Being a "salaried man" is NOT a good/normal/right situation, the more you save the quicker you escape it.

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