Worried about being promoted...thoughts?

[Lemur]

I'll do my best to articulate my dilemma (if any readers here follow my journal...you may have seen this mentioned from time to time)...

I work in one of the Big4 accounting firms as a senior consultant. Doesn't matter which one frankly, they all employ some degree of up-or-out culture; where if one stagnates at a certain level, they will eventually be let-go. Interestingly, I believe the higher you go up the career ladder, the more acceptable it is to be stuck at a certain level for a while. But no one can be stagnant for too long before management level.

And therein lies my dilemma. I've been satisfied with my current role, responsibilities, and salary at my current position; however, I have gained the reputation for putting out consistent quality work and making processes efficient - as well as making everyone's workload easier and basically becoming a SME in my niche.

My leadership wants me up for promotion this year to manager (entry-level manager). I think most people would be excited but I"m not... I don't think I have been direct enough with my superiors but it is obviously very hard to articulate "hey I don't want to be promoted - I'm happy with where I am at." without sounding like someone who doesn't have ambition. I can be a bit of a perfectionist and I also don't like managing people...I worry about the Peter Principle mostly. This is also the first level in our career ladder that outside of client work you're also expected to manage others and get involved in the "business side of the firm" such as selling work, leading groups and initiatives, etc...stuff that I don't even bother with at the moment except the one-off situations where I might help with a spreadsheet.

I also worry that the added stress, responsibilities, and of course extra hours will not translate into enough compensation to be worth it. I don't know a single manager at my firm who doesn't put in 55+ hour weeks...its rather ridiculous. I can mostly get by on 40-45 hours myself. "Going up for promotion" this year also translates to "you will be doing next-level work without the next-level pay while we dangle this carrot in front of you" for what could be a few months up to even a year or 2.

OTOH....without being so much a pessimist, I do see a few reasons to be optimistic. There is a part of me that sees a long-term benefit of a certain title...For example, think of a starting NFL quarterback that loses his starting position. He might have been laughed at and boo'd but now he always has that "starting quarterback" on his resume and can easily move around the NFL as that "hey he can be a solid backup." Secondly, it would be nice to be the decision maker sometimes....and three...maybe the extra money could just help me accumulate faster. Any additional dollars I make now do go into savings anyhow. Lastly...maybe there could be a personal growth benefit to doing something I am uncomfortable with? At one point, I did think being a senior consultant would be too rough for me but it did eventually get easy and second-nature...

What are your thoughts about Lemur's situation?

[ertyu]

How much longer do you need to work?

[Lemur]

@ertyu

Good question because that could factor into decision...about 6-10 years left. As of this post, I have 9.3x expenses accumulated. Savings rate is consistently between 40-45%.

[Alphaville]

since you’re basically trapped in the pipeline, i’d look for a way to make the trap work for you.

while i’m not big on “personality type as an explainer of all things social” this is one area where it would be helpful to find a way to do that they ask of you.

i’d say look for a mentor who understands your traits and read up books on different management styles and actively study management.

[ eta: eg look into expanded versions of this: https://www.workzone.com/blog/management-styles/ ]

meanwhile as a backup you could build your escape plans. which, obviously, your pile of money, but also contingency career plans should you need/want to quit work?

[ertyu]

Another consideration: if the economy is going down the drain, you may be best off not rocking the boat for as long as possible. The top thing to do in a recession is not to lose your job. But then, I have been established as too much of a salaryman, so...

[2Birds1Stone]

I read your journal religiously, and think that you should just go for it.

Break the status quo. Fellow managers are putting in long hours because they want to climb the corporate pyramid. Don't be them, apply the Pareto principle. I've managed a team, and I've been managed by someone who did exactly that and it was awesome. Figure out how to make the system work for you. You can always go back to being an SME or IC in some capacity. Maybe if you step out of your comfort zone it will be worth the learning experience. Ask for more money, don't let them dangle the carrot forever.

[Lemur]

@Alphaville

Agree...if I'm going to be a manager, I ought to be educated in it. That should decrease the anxiety if I look at this from a manager = skill mindframe as opposed to equating manager with being a bossy extrovert. My back-up plan has always been to re-start a career into tech if I ever got let go or simply got fed up with consulting. Maybe database management or something with SQL. I have a year's worth of school money from military GI-Bill left to use that for.

@ertyu

True. Dont' want to lose job in a recession. I'm very lucky to not only have a job but one that wants to see me promoted...But I also consider with the COVID situation, firms are taking advantage of the situation (only natural ) and they could promote without significant raise given 'company financials' with the end result being one does more work without adequate compensation...I'd expect a salary jump flight a year or 2 out from this COVID debacle if that is the case.

@2Birds1Stone

I like it! A perspective I did not consider.......my managers are putting in long hours because they want to be senior managers and partners one day....my end goals are much different. I could also truly embody the 'work-life balance' manager persona...be the change you want to see?

[Dream of Freedom]

Can you think of anyone who managed to buck that trend? How did they do it?

[Alphaville]

once upon a time fresh out of college wanting to be a pirate i took a grad level management course and then a few months later i quit the whole program. i really learned nothing at the time because it was all book learnin’ with 0 experience on my part.

since you do have corporate experience, i’m sure you’ll benefit more from books that can illuminate what you already have seen.

some search results...

https://www.inc.com/jessica-stillman/15 ... -read.html

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnhall/2 ... e8fcf4e3bc

https://www.inc.com/john-brandon/introv ... enges.html

there’s a deep rabbit hole of research as i recall from my aborted studies. they had us reading papers, etc. i mean, management is a science. thus you can systematize the learning.

[Dream of Freedom]

If you want to play dirty you can go to the doctor and get diagnosed with anxiety. Then when they try to promote you tell them that you can't because it is too stressful because of your condition. They have to make reasonable accommodations for medical conditions it's the law.

[Lemur]

@Dream of Freedom

I can not think of anyone in particular who bucked the trend..the only ones I see bucking the trend are our older workers in our industry who likely don't care if they get fired either way. Maybe they've that FI power...know they can easily find work elsewhere....or just general apathy for big corps? The happiest workers in my niche are the subcontractors who work for small businesses that don't have to deal with mega-corp policies, procedures, and big firm work..but they also trade lower pay for doing so. I used to work for the small consulting firms...happy with the hours and not the pay. So I switched to mega-corp but now after accumulating for a while...now I"m at the opposite...I would trade money for more time.

idk in regards to anxiety. To me, anxiety just stems from a lack of experience - it is an internal designation that something needs to be done. I borrow how I define anxiety from this book I read [Constructive Living - David Reynolds]. In this case..no doctor for me. Just need to heed a challenge and make a decision.

[Lemur]

@Alphaville

Thank you! Will look into these.

[rube]

If you do it and you're able to do it well (most likely) and in a reasonable work/life balance (questionable from you description but perhaps not completely impossible) you learn from it and you develop yourself. Or after 2 years you decide nah, nothing for me let's find something else.
Even in that case you still have learned something valuable. How much is there to lose versus what can you learn which might be useful for the rest of your life.

My title is "director" and I have a few direct reports. As it seems now, I have proven myself sufficiently that I am able to keep the work that is interesting to me, transfer all the other tasks and keep on working for 20 hrs/wk. We have consultants and a few others working part-time but not on "my" level. I might be the first, not sure if it will work out but, if you don't try you will never know.

[nomadscientist]

It sounds like you need the money, the promotion isn't optional, and you don't have a clear plan B. Take the promotion.

Another thought: even if the new job goes terribly, you will learn new and widely applicable skills, and since you only need another 6-10 years you aren't as invested in the outcome as most. Not a bad situation for you.

[bostonimproper]

Does your firm have a promotion track for SME or IC? Honestly a lot of people don't like and are not good at people management, even if they are good at what they do. I'd just ask your boss to stay on IC track.

[Frita]

+1 to bostonimproper

Managing is a whole different skillset and often not worth it, especially for those with no desire to do so. Suddenly, you will be in charge of things over which you influence but don’t control in a magnified way. If you are doubting you’d enjoy that, trust your instinct.

If you are forced into the “up and out” situation, could you game it to climb as far as possible in quick order to hit your number (and quit) sooner?

[Lemur]

@bostonimproper

Yes. I'm in better spirits today. Turns out we do have a specialist track where one doesn't have to manage sales or business side but we would still have to manage teams for project delivery (its called a PDM ; project delivery manager or project delivery specialist) - that I think I can do if it is a technical workload. The management track my peers were really pushing me go with because "they make more money!" but I'm satisfied with my income - I'm prioritizing keeping my sanity and doing work that aligns with my personality - I've found that this is very important!

Why i don't like managing sales? Feels like I'm selling holy water...and the whole under promise over deliver thing (#1 saying in consulting) never felt right to me...I get what it stems from though; this is the corporate way of building in slack for delivery timelines and a way to manage expectations. Often being completely and literally honest about timelines can put you in hot water. i'm also not one that has a large network ...I don't like too many meetings...I hate powerpoint lol.

@Frita

Being in charge of things over which I can influence but don't control....yea I'm gonna trust my instincts lol. That would drive me insane!

[Scott 2]

I opted out of a management track at my company about 4 years ago. At the time I had one direct report.

I expect to resume managing later this year. Two reports by year end wouldn't be surprising.

I found it really hard to report to someone who could not do the job as well as me. It lead to a weird dynamic, where I had more years of experience and clout in the organization, but my manager was supposed to lead. It was never clear who was really in charge. Their peers used to be my peers, and were more inclined to treat me as the manager. People outside the team would come to me instead, etc. We'd spent years building our relationships, they weren't suddenly gone.

I ended up getting promoted into the management level, but with no direct reports. However, that can only last for so long. As an organization grows, members of the leadership team need subordinates.

My suggestion would be to follow one of the organization's defined paths and not overthink it. You'll learn and adapt. Assuming your managers are reasonable, they recognize your strengths and limitations. They will work with you, if you work with them.

[Matt3121]

Another consideration: if the economy is going down the drain, you may be best off not rocking the boat for as long as possible. The top thing to do in a recession is not to lose your job. But then, I have been established as too much of a salaryman, so...

This to me is the number 1 thing. No job is promised especially these days. The only downside of accepting management jobs it that you aren't doing "real work" in some ways, so it's easier to cut managers or consolidate their jobs. Before I FIRE'd I had the chance to manage people a couple of times, and while in some ways it's enjoyable because I like people, in other ways it's bad because you are in mind numbing meetings all day. That drove me nuts.

Just my 2 cents. Also man, 6 to 10 years to retire? Could you cut back and retire sooner? That makes me depressed thinking about waiting that long, but that's just me.

[UK-with-kids]

I used to work for a big 4 accounting firm in the dim and distant past. It's a horrible machine - at every level they push people to the max and burn them out, with a few people at the top making hundreds of thousands every year. The longer you stay, the worse it gets. The senior people and junior partners are probably more unhappy than the juniors and junior managers, even though (or because) they have bigger houses and therefore more financial commitments.

I was also wondering about Matt's question - with such a high salary, how can it be 6-10 years before you're financially free?

Once you have the big 4 name on your CV, it's really not hard to get a job at a smaller firm, and the working culture will probably be completely different - at least in the UK that's true. Even if the salary is a bit lower (which it might not be), that feels like a more sustainable strategy for mental and physical health, free time to pursue other interests, general headspace and so on.

I'd echo the other comments on the current economic situation though. It's probably the right time to (pretend to) play the game for a while. But with a plan to escape when the time is right. I wouldn't worry too much about managing people - they're probably mostly like you and therefore on your wavelength, also highly motivated. The real job of managing people wasn't something I encountered until I got out in the real world outside of the big 4.