The Thread Where Nuuka Schools Suo About How Suo is a Sociopath

[suomalainen]

Proceed

[Mister Imperceptible]

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

[Nuuka]

First, I want to thank Jacob and Suo for possibility to continue this discussion without being banned.I do not want to be mean to anybody. I want to help anybody who is, or has to deal with people who, either have narcistic behaviour or have to live or work with such persons.

What is narcistic behaviour? Basically it means that person has limited or no capability for feeling empathy. Empathy is a sense transfer of someone others wellbeing.

A person who has no sense of empathy does not recognize this lack. So many such persons do not realise they have any problem. Hey just compensate this lack with their other cognitive skills, typically by their memory.

Life for such persons resembles elephant in the glass house. This means that there will be crashes and damage from time to time and someone(s) have to clean the mess and damages. Typically it is not the elephant who does the cleaning and repairs. Often the cleaners and repairers get tired of when this continues some time and start to seek way out.

A person who has no sense empathy is often (but not always) overloading other person since he/she does not know when to stop, since unaware of the state of mind of the other person. As a consequence the other person often builds a shield to protect from overloading.

What causes lack of sense of empathy? Usual explanation is abnormal relationship with mother during childhood. Mother is suppressed for some reason and is not able to set any borders of behaviour to the child. Child grows without sensing where is the border between self and mother. Therefore the child assumes that any person is part of self unless proven otherwise through conflict. Only through and after conflict other person exists. Because of this assumption persons with no empathy are very persuasive, charming and are able to get under the skin of a new person they encounter.

Therefore when you meet especially charming, kind, wonderful and thoughtful person, there is a small possibility that you meet a narcistic person. This person maybe charming for weeks, months, or even years, but eventually you might notice kind of suppressive behaviour of limiting your freedom in some way. This is first symptom of overloading.

Internally person who has lack of sense for emphathy needs positive feedback in the sense that being able to control more and new persons. So stabile relationship will not satisfy for long. Therefore there is tendency or burn to either tighten the grip on existing relationship or establish new relationship(s).

So if overloaded person puts shields up, narcistic person is more or less forced to find a new relationship where to entertain tightening grip of merging the other self to one’s own.

[Mister Imperceptible]

I think that Suo has been taking care of his wife and kids and comes to this place to vent.

I also know from experience that people who make sacrifices do not like seeing other people not make those sacrifices and get away with it.

For example, someone who lives in his parents basement and pays off his student loans does not like people who refuse to pay their loans, live a life of constant enjoyment, and then demand that student loan forgiveness is a moral imperative.

Another example is a man who has given up his happiness for the sake of his wife and children does not like a man who is considering escape from his wife and children.

[Nuuka]

Why am I concerned about narcistic persons and other persons who share their life with narcistic persons? Why I do care? The answer is that I have encountered during my working life, and during my childhood and formative years several narcistic persons and I can assure that they are not easy to deal with and they can sink your life energy so that you will deplete your energy resources so low that you are in danger of health problems or having to exit your otherwise manageable living or working environment to be able to escape the grip of narcistic person.

[Nuuka]

How to recognise narcistic person? Basically the only way is through passage of time. Otherwise you cannot tell. Why is it like this? Because narcistic persons are able compensate for the lack of sensing emphathy. It is only over time that there are circumstances that they don’t have experience or model how to behave that their lack of empathy shows, or that they become needy to gain more grip or new persons that it becomes visible.

Reputation is another warning mechanism, but nowadays it is not often possible to warn anybody of someone being narcistic. There is a risk that the person is under the initial charm of the narcist, and refuse to believe and this can ruin the relationship between the warner and warned.

[black_son_of_gray]

Because of this assumption persons with no empathy are very persuasive, charming and are able to get under the skin of a new person they encounter.

For such a long post about what empathy is, the lack of distinction between e.g. cognitive vs. emotional empathy is ... telling.

Also, how can someone who lacks any sense of another person's internal experience, desires, preferences, emotional states, etc be very persuasive or charming or able to get under another's skin. It is precisely because they do understand the other empathically that they can do this. I'm bowing out of this one. I'll take my comments off the air.

[Nuuka]

What to do when you suspect that someone close to you might have narcistic behaviour patterns?

Well, first priority is to protect yourself from mental overload. This means putting shields up, taking distance or cutting communication. Sometimes it is not possible to cut the exposure to communication if you have some shared interest that you cannot abandon. In that case limit the communication to minimum. It might help if you bring in a third person to communication events so that the intensity of the communication can me moderated.

A narcistic person cannot be healed. It is not possible to grow sense of empathy in a person. No promise to change behaviour will stick.

[Nuuka]

How to communicate with narcistic person? The key is to share as little knowledge about yourself as possible. Do not tell what you intend, do not tell who your friends are, do not tell what you like, etc. This is because the more tools the narcist has to work on you to get the grip hold. If narcist already knows your data, stop updating and get new phone number, move to another place, etc, if possible.

It is not good to leave any written trail of any communication, and if you have to leave any trail, just state the minimum and nothing personal.

[horsewoman]

@nuuka it is clear that you meant it for the best, but can you really not see how presumptuous it is to write such a post in someone else's journal? A stranger to you, someone you only "know" through a few written pages.

While reading your post I've had the thought that in doing this you were exhibiting exactly the lack of empathy you are accusing Suo of. Everyone has their own filters that information passes trough and is assessed accordingly. For some reason you have come to the conclusion that Suo is a narcissistic person lacking empathy. While this may make perfect sense to you, it is in fact only your opinion. You are of course entitled to your opinion.

But you chose to write an analysis of Suos personality and offered practical steps, not realizing that most people would find this rather presumptuous and that it is simply not your place to do so.

Seriously, this is more disturbing to me than anything Suo ever wrote in his journal (there was nothing at all disturbing in it.). Please don't dig yourself into a deeper hole. You meant well, but I hope the responses gave you something to think about. We are all here to grow and to improve our selves, this seems to be a perfect opportunity to do so.

[2Birds1Stone]

Nuuka must be a lot of fun at parties.

[Nuuka]

Anything I have written in this thread up to now is generic with no pointing to anyone. I am writing this with explicit suggestion by Suo and Jacob. The headline was not chosen by me.

[suomalainen]

@nuuka, you asked for this.

First of all, I can’t believe I’m actually responding to this thread. Or that anyone has. I wrote this as a joke challenge to see if Nuuka had the balls to go from shitting on my living room carpet to shitting in public in the middle of the yard. So. Good dog. Hopefully you are now house trained.

Second, you’re an idiot. If you’re going to play psychologist, at least have the decency to look up the DSM criteria for narcissistic personality disorder or whatever the fuck you’re diagnosing me with. And what the fuck is this:

Be careful. If you read carefully, Suo is symphatetic towards to the reader not to his family. Being able to address private discussion typical to narcistic persons are capable of entering inside your skin.

Selective narcissistic personality disorder? I can show empathy to Person A but not Person B? Do you have any idea what you’re talking about? Paging Dr. Dunning. Dr. Dunning? Dr. Kruger? Anyone home?

Third, I’m not going to defend myself, my marriage or my family from ill-considered, ill-researched attacks. I will simply address the couple of points I recall from your various posts to say:

1. I am not remotely charming. Never have I been accused of being charming. You, however, appear to have a real hard-on for me, so maybe I attract a certain demographic.
2. I hide nothing, almost. Haven’t you been reading my journal? There is NOTHING in my journal that I haven’t talked about with my wife and at least two other friends in real life. How many readers would lay any of this type of shit out for even ONE other person?
3. My relationship with my mother, who is literally the most empathetic person on this planet I have ever met, was fine. If you’d paid any attention to my journal at all, you’d realize it was my dad who was the real asshole. And, actually, NPD is probably an accurate diagnosis for him.
4. You won’t believe me, but I don’t care. I fucking ooze empathy, even with wifey. Some might call it a strength, but I actually find it to be a goddamn burden. Imagine never being able to get outside your or other people’s heads. I finally had to force myself to stop making other people’s problems my problems. The word for this is probably codependency, but I’m not a psychologist and I’m too lazy to research if there’s a DSM entry related to this.
5. I will keep the details of my problems with my wife (and her problems with me) to a few trusted friends. I don’t need to add any material to your spank-bank.
6. Speaking of being empathetic, I started this thread so that whenever you got that hard-on for me, you’d have a place to come rub one out and feel better about yourself - and simply bask in the warm afterglow of smugness and superiority. See? I even have empathy for you.
7. I don’t buy your “this isn’t personal bullshit” for one second. You came into my living room multiple times to “play devil’s advocate” and shit on my rug. And now my rug is stained forever. But you know what, fuck it, let it stay.

****Playing Devil’s Advocate****

Maybe...now just hear me out a second...what if you’re just an asshole?

*****End Devil’s Advocacy****

Edit: PS, in accordance with forum rule #5, this is my one “fire back”.