How to make more money without much of any schooling?

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Seppia
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Re: How to make more money without much of any schooling?

Post by Seppia » Sat Aug 03, 2019 6:44 am

$10k passive income means (with the very optimistic in today's world 4% rule) $250k in assets.
If you want to get there in 8 years, you need to stash away 30k per year approximately, which means you need a minimum of $40k per year net in earnings, so a gross salary of around $50k if you work in a place with no state and city tax.

I think you would need to work your butt off to get there

anesde
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Re: How to make more money without much of any schooling?

Post by anesde » Sat Aug 03, 2019 7:05 am

How/why are you so sure that your passion can not generate income? It’s difficult to comment on this without understanding what it is, or what you want to do within it. But if you take a step back and consider you’re looking to fast track your way to just focus on this for (presumably) the rest of your days then are you that unique? By that I mean, is there a market out there for people who are interested in the same passion? Creating a product, teaching, consulting, etc are all ways to generate income off of something you’re passionate about.

Also, you’re still quite young (I don’t mean this in any way other than factual). Don’t be so sure that your thoughts, desires, passion won’t change as you age and get new life experiences.

Personally I would suggest to you to pick up a trade - light plumbing or residential electrical work. You can make a small income as an apprentice and become a journeyman within 3-4 years. It’s the type of work that can’t be easily automated and will be in demand everywhere you go (unless you leave the country, in which case standards/licenses may change but knowledge is roughly the same)

You’ll pull in more (after the first year) than 12k and always have the option of picking up some work as and when you’ll need it. You can work hard for c. 5 years to build up a decent base and then do a semblance of Semi-ERE. That should give you time to focus on whatever your passion is.

Knowing a trade can also work some synergies if you’re dead set on owning rental homes. Beyond the work you can do yourself you will also build a network by working on jobsites. Hence why I say light plumbing or residential electrical work.

I generally wouldn’t advise going to college unless you’re dead certain you’re after a corporate career (which it’s clear you’re not). Steer clear of any debt, always keep a positive cash flow, and save aggressively.

Good luck and don’t be afraid to share what your passion is - people can help with ideas to monetise it.

Johnny
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Re: How to make more money without much of any schooling?

Post by Johnny » Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:39 am

Seppia wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 6:44 am
$10k passive income means (with the very optimistic in today's world 4% rule) $250k in assets.
In real estate it doesn't.
anesde wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 7:05 am
How/why are you so sure that your passion can not generate income?
It can.

We're just talking about a 10-year-period it'd likely take to make returns such as $5-10k annually from it.

I've also had the exact same ambitions from a reasonably young age. I can almost guarantee my direction or passion is going to change anytime soon.

I'm considering college despite not wishing to be in the workforce beyond 30. It's beginning to seem like the only safe route to a guaranteed good income and pursuing my passion after hours.

cimorene12
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Re: How to make more money without much of any schooling?

Post by cimorene12 » Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:24 am

Can you please explain why you can't or won't go to trade school?

FIRE 2018
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Re: How to make more money without much of any schooling?

Post by FIRE 2018 » Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:29 am

If you go to college why don't you apply for ROTC scholarship? Free tuition and room and board and you serve for several years in the armed forces. Some people I know saved and invested most of their annual income while serving in the Navy since they lived in base with most expenses paid for by military. You have a lot of options but if you dream about getting out of the workforce by age 30 you need to think about thinking out of the box and work hard. If you desire to sit back and wait for the profits to roll in, you need to earn some capital to get started. That is where the hard work comes in. How bad do you want it? Good luck to you.

jacob
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Re: How to make more money without much of any schooling?

Post by jacob » Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:43 am

I dunno, it seems that the widespread belief that a college degree is a "safe route to a guaranteed good income" has driven college degree risk premiums to near zero if not negative. More and more people go and learn less and less. There are of course a few exceptions left but even coding seems to be transitioning into bootcamp style arrangements. Ten years ago, when the personal finance community was comparing the opportunity cost of college in terms of debt and opportunity cost of delayed income, the comparison was not favorable. The random college student would not catch up with the random tradeworker until age 40-50 something. Has the situation improved since then?

Jean
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Re: How to make more money without much of any schooling?

Post by Jean » Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:50 am

A collège dégrée, even stem, is no safe road to a good job. Especialy if your not thé kind of person that enjoy collège students.

Johnny
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Re: How to make more money without much of any schooling?

Post by Johnny » Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:00 am

cimorene12 wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:24 am
Can you please explain why you can't or won't go to trade school?
To make a long story short.

I am a US citizen. I was born and raised in Florida. I however am currently living in Canada on a work visa, and I would like to eventually get PR here. Reason being is because I have a girlfriend living here.

If you do some researching, you'll come to find that it's profoundly easier to get PR in Canada as a US citizen when you have a bachelors degree, rather than a certification for a trade. So yeah, that's why I think I'm going to perhaps go with Computer Science alongside another major (a double major) which is my passion/hobby.
FIRE 2018 wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:29 am
If you go to college why don't you apply for ROTC scholarship?
Not currently living in the US.
jacob wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:43 am
I dunno, it seems that the widespread belief that a college degree is a "safe route to a guaranteed good income" has driven college degree risk premiums to near zero if not negative. More and more people go and learn less and less. Has the situation improved since then?
I wouldn't say it's improved, but I definitely would say that there still certainly are some degrees worth pursuing.
Jean wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:50 am
A collège dégrée, even stem, is no safe road to a good job. Especialy if your not thé kind of person that enjoy collège students.
I completely disagree with you. If you get a Bachelors in a STEM field, you're likely going to have many employment opportunities that at the very least pay $40-60k a year (and likely can and would pay much more).


Again, in case anyone didn't read the above, I'm considering a Bachelors in Computer Science in Canada as an International Student (yes even despite the fact that I will take on more debt).

Jean
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Re: How to make more money without much of any schooling?

Post by Jean » Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:06 am

You can disagree, but i didn't find a job despite m'y engineering degree and 2.5% unemployment rate. I Guess you want to stay in Canada for your girlfriend? Why don't you just marry hier for pr?

Johnny
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Re: How to make more money without much of any schooling?

Post by Johnny » Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:13 am

Jean wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:06 am
You can disagree, but i didn't find a job despite m'y engineering degree and 2.5% unemployment rate. I Guess you want to stay in Canada for your girlfriend? Why don't you just marry hier for pr?
Well I'm sorry to hear that. But again, the unemployment rate is immensely low.

Statistically, I'm likely to get a job in my field of employment, I think the CS unemployment rate in Canada is even lower.

Also about the marriage thing, that's a whole other story. Don't really wish to deviate the topic or to go too in depth about it. But yeah that would be an easy way to PR.

Scott 2
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Re: How to make more money without much of any schooling?

Post by Scott 2 » Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:28 am

You don't need a degree to get well paid programming work. Employers are DESPERATE for people who can code. There is almost zero stigma in not having a degree. I'm not sure there's ever been a better time to get into the industry. Self directed learning, boot camps, apprenticeships - if you have an aptitude or interest, that is your answer.

When you are on the job in IT, the problems are always new. You need to be constantly teaching yourself. As long as you have that skill, you can succeed.

Alternatively, why not apprentice under your father on the real estate? He provides the capital to back a fifth property, you do the work, etc.

jennypenny
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Re: How to make more money without much of any schooling?

Post by jennypenny » Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:38 am

What are you really asking for advice on? You sound like you've already decided on getting a CS degree. Are you looking for how to make money while you do that? First Q: are there any restrictions in Canada on how you make money or what kind of job you can have? (I have no idea.) Second Q: do companies in Canada offer tuition reimbursement like they do in the US? You'd be qualified for a job in facilities management or shipping and could make it work if you used their tuition reimbursement benefit.

You're asking a pretty well-informed group for advice and then discounting their answers. Maybe you should ponder what people are saying instead of dismissing it so quickly. I also agree with others who've said that 30 isn't some magical number that determines success or failure wrt ERE/FIRE. Focus on getting yourself set up for success first and let go of any artificial deadlines. You have a GF, intend to get a CS degree, and want to get a PR in Canada --that's enough to focus on without an arbitrary clock ticking in the background. If you get everything you want, will it matter if it takes until 32? In ten years you might want something completely different anyway ... happens all the time.

Good luck.

Johnny
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Re: How to make more money without much of any schooling?

Post by Johnny » Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:38 am

Scott 2 wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:28 am
You don't need a degree to get well paid programming work. Employers are DESPERATE for people who can code. There is almost zero stigma in not having a degree. I'm not sure there's ever been a better time to get into the industry. Self directed learning, boot camps, apprenticeships - if you have an aptitude or interest, that is your answer.

When you are on the job in IT, the problems are always new. You need to be constantly teaching yourself. As long as you have that skill, you can succeed.

Alternatively, why not apprentice under your father on the real estate? He provides the capital to back a fifth property, you do the work, etc.
Thing is, I do need a degree to get PR much easier.

It's just a huge situation I'm in aha. Not trying to make this difficult.

But yeah you're definitely right...

bigato
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Re: How to make more money without much of any schooling?

Post by bigato » Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:39 am

If you find you have the right personality to deal with boring numbers and logic, I agree with Scott that learning to code is probably your fastest way to a high salary. If you decide to take that path, I can guide you through your learning (not teaching, mostly guiding) until you start getting a good grasp of the field.

Scott 2
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Re: How to make more money without much of any schooling?

Post by Scott 2 » Sat Aug 03, 2019 11:04 am

If I understand the immigration website correctly, the sweet spot may be a 2 year degree, but a 1 year certificate might be enough?

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-re ... rkers.html
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-re ... rkers.html
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-re ... wb-auto-12

Goal of 67 points

English - up to 28 points
Age - 12 points
Employment offer - 10 points
Associates degree - 19 points (one year certificate is worth 15 points)
Work Experience - 9 points for a year

I'd try to solve the permanent residency problem after you solve the income problem

slowtraveler
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Re: How to make more money without much of any schooling?

Post by slowtraveler » Sat Aug 03, 2019 11:05 am

@Bigato

I'm interested in that. Seeing as it took our fellow self starter about a year to go from learning to being paid, what would you recommend to someone wanting to learn enough for well paid work?

bigato
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Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 12:43 pm

Re: How to make more money without much of any schooling?

Post by bigato » Sat Aug 03, 2019 11:12 am

The "well paid" part is mostly a market question, and is probably better answered by some job ads research rather than my opinion. But what I kep seeing is people focusing on analytics, ai, apps and web, more or less in that order. Just to be clear, what I could help with would be advice regarding the foundations which I believe apply to make one a competent programmer regardless of the sub-field. If you already program and is more interested about the most hyped buzzwords of the moment, my opinion is probably as valuable as anyone else's.

daylen
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Re: How to make more money without much of any schooling?

Post by daylen » Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:34 pm

1. A double major would just add time and/or stress with very little (if any) marginal gain. You can learn just about anything you want outside of school without all the external boundaries.

2. Remember that you are working with imperfect and incomplete information. Plan for dynamic planning.

3. Start thinking with webs as opposed to points. What other skills or lifestyle changes would fit well with your passion? How can you expand its scope?

4. Re-learn what you think you know. Falsify your own assumptions about everything (simple ideas are often profound). Writing can work wonders for exposing subconscious assumptions. Even if your assumptions are valid, this helps you learn how to learn which is much more potent than anything a class can teach.

bigato
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Re: How to make more money without much of any schooling?

Post by bigato » Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:59 pm

Why isn't marrying for PR an option by the way?

Johnny
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Re: How to make more money without much of any schooling?

Post by Johnny » Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:21 pm

For a long time I have strongly considered college. In fact, just yesterday I was still against it. If some of you didn't read my story in the beginning of this post, I dropped out of college at 18 after one semester and I haven't ever returned since. I tried to make it for myself in the workforce and in small personal businesses and to forego college altogether.

That hasn't worked out well for me. It's been 4 years since I dropped out of college and I'm still being over-worked at a minimum wage job. I need to go to college and I need to make more money.

Sorry to say, but this thread has officially been solved and is now obsolete considering that I've now decided to suck it up, not retire as early as 30, make a good wage starting around 27, and to pursue my personal hobbies after work in my little bits of free time.

I thank you all for posting. Sorry I made this thread purposelessly.

College is the answer considering all of the nuances of my situation. Thank you to everyone for posting.

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