Full Time Jobs?

Anything to do with the traditional world of get a degree, get a job as well as its alternatives
shadow
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Full Time Jobs?

Post by shadow »

Section 5.1.2 of the ERE book encourages using homeotelic solutions to problems (solving more than one at a time instead of solving one at the cost of solving another), and even cites someone working a full time job as an example of a heterotelic response.

This would lead me to conclude it's better to have several diversified income streams at once which may or may not be considered "jobs."

I know that many here on the forums have set their lives up like the above, and the idea is nothing new, but I wonder why most people choose to go through the "accumulation phase"?

Isn't it more effective to immediately begin building other income streams which will replace at least partially job income, and leave as soon as possible, instead of committing to reaching some ERE number then quitting?

Stahlmann
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Re: Full Time Jobs?

Post by Stahlmann »

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shadow
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Re: Full Time Jobs?

Post by shadow »

@Stahlmann
I also thought this was why but given the extremely(hehe) low col most everyone here has and the fact most of them have already acquired skills, would it really be that hard to swing it?
Say, a part time, serious time spent on investing, and a tiny business or two on the side.

George the original one
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Re: Full Time Jobs?

Post by George the original one »

shadow wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:41 pm
Say, a part time, serious time spent on investing, and a tiny business or two on the side.
Problem #1: Part-time wages are usually crap compared to full time. Before I retired, my hourly wage was in the $45/hr range and it's awfully, awfully tough to find a part-time wage with guaranteed hours that can match that.

Problems #2 & #3: investing and businesses are not guaranteed income.

If you can easily meet, and preferably exceed, expenses with the part-time job, then it makes sense to take a flyer on investing & businesses. Couples have an advantage here, as one partner can do the boring full-time job while the other partner takes the flyer.

RealPerson
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Re: Full Time Jobs?

Post by RealPerson »

A part time gig as a way to decrease the drawing down of post retirement capital is an excellent way to mitigate the sequence risk, market downturns, etc. IIRC Michael Kitces discussed this very well in his podcast with the Mad Fientist. Especially if the side gig is fun for you. He gives the example of an IT guy who became a bartender to feed his extrovert nature. I know someone who loves to be outside and mows lawns for people who work FT. He loves it. How about a PT barista in a small boutique coffee shop?

A side gig or side business while you work FT, or worse yet, several PT jobs instead of a FT job, see comments by others above. That strikes me as the worst possible setup.

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C40
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Re: Full Time Jobs?

Post by C40 »

Yes.

But... For me.. at least so far, my earning power was way higher back in my engineering career. It's possible to get part time engineering work, but... not nearly as possible as full-time. Being a worker-bee / cog in a machine is very efficient. In a well-run company, with the right kinds of people working on the right kinds of things, the potential impact I had on results was really high. By myself, so far, it's small beans.

When I was working full time, my hourly income was quite high - particularly when I was making like $100k but had good control over my working hours and really only worked ~30 hours per week. So with bonuses, I was making ~$85 per hour. Most of the part time and entrepreneurial income sources I have in mind won't result in anywhere near that much $/hour. Not even close. At all. Of course, I could work smarter - on things that are more scalable in output with the same work input.. I may try that more in the future. In the areas I have experience with, it takes a lot knowing the playing field, knowing types and durations of trends, etc. Things I don't care about right now.



-----


And - that Michael Kitches episode on the Mad Fientist is one of my favorite personal finance podcast episodes ever. Anyone readying this who hasn't heard it yet - listen to it. For an ERE audience, it's probably not going to produce eureka revelations, but, it's still good.

TopHatFox
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Re: Full Time Jobs?

Post by TopHatFox »

I think western culture is designed around ppl working 8 hours m-f and partying/buying stuff on weekends and celebrating on holidays. Because of this, most of the available jobs are designed to be full time, especially the ones with benefits and high pay.

it’d be cool if adult life were designed with part-time roles in mind, but then we’d all have time to revolt or something. lol

Stahlmann
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Re: Full Time Jobs?

Post by Stahlmann »

TopHatFox wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:51 am
I think western culture is designed around ppl working 8 hours m-f and partying/buying stuff on weekends and celebrating on holidays. Because of this, most of the available jobs are designed to be full time, especially the ones with benefits and high pay.

it’d be cool if adult life were designed with part-time roles in mind, but then we’d all have time to revolt or something. lol
it seems to be ((consensus)) between workers' rights activists and capitalists, being rather pushed towards capitalist side for the last 30+ years.

as always people who put a bit more effort and (usually somehow) located in richer countries will say this is only capitalism victory. this why we can observe radical leftist movement (rather only) in Africa or SEA. let it sink in for a moment...

thegreatvoid

Re: Full Time Jobs?

Post by thegreatvoid »

Stahlmann wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 5:03 am
it seems to be ((consensus)) between workers' rights activists and capitalists, being rather pushed towards capitalist side for the last 30+ years.
Libertarian here, who really dislikes socialism and bureaucracy , but I would definetley agree with your statement.

For example ; in 2018 Austria introduced the new 12-hour work day . Now your empoyer can demand you to work a 12 hour shift, without being paid overtime. The argument for this, was the low economic growth and being more competitive , as a ot of factories have moved to Poland, Sovakia, Romania or Asia.

Keynes predicted that we woud only work 15 hours a week in the future... more like 15 hours a day :? :lol:

Stahlmann
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Re: Full Time Jobs?

Post by Stahlmann »

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shadow
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Re: Full Time Jobs?

Post by shadow »

George the original one wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 4:05 pm
If you can easily meet, and preferably exceed, expenses with the part-time job, then it makes sense to take a flyer on investing & businesses.
This is exactly what I was considering. To take the number thrown out earlier in the thread -- even if you cut an hourly wage of $45 in 4, you have a wage of $11.25/hr.

$11.25/hr * 20hr/wk * 50wk/yr = $11,250/year.

Not great, but this seems doable to me for a few reasons.

1) many of the forum members here have annual expenses easily under $11,250 (not to say that is easy at all, I have a lot of respect for these people, but it doesn't seem out of reach for someone with dedication).

2) $11.25/hr is, in my opinion, a very conservative estimate.

3) 20 hours a week leaves a lot of time, and if the spare time is put to good use I would have a hard time believing one would make NO money (or save no money) from the pursuits, even if none were spectacular successes.


Clearly a full time career would most often lead to higher earning overall. But I see this idea as reducing one's dependence on money instead of increasing the supply of money.

Stahlmann
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Re: Full Time Jobs?

Post by Stahlmann »

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shadow
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Re: Full Time Jobs?

Post by shadow »

Stahlmann wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 7:29 pm
However I would say that most part time jobs are availble in hcol areas (namely cities) and it is easy to break the budget with housing alone. Yep, I'm aware of ere budget vision (in semi monetary terms) as housing+food+100$ allowance, but... still nobody arrives at this level instantly. Or just preferences are different.
...
Ba/trade diploma shows that you were able to follow some standarised instructions in world where most of your peers will own such credentials
Excuse me for the confusion, "immediately" meant as soon as one begins their career or decides to pursue ERE which in my case would be after graduating college (impractical not to go at this point). The part time job could still be pursued in the same way as a traditional career just much slower as there is less time put in -- treating the career as an important module but one of several. This way higher earnings could be achieved (and likely more opportunities given that one has some skills in their profession).

This eliminates many lines of work, especially those with very high earning ceilings, but there are still plenty to be explored.

Stahlmann
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Re: Full Time Jobs?

Post by Stahlmann »

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shadow
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Re: Full Time Jobs?

Post by shadow »

Thank you for the advice, I think you are right that the kind of job to make this work would have more to do with luck than planning.

PS. I am 17 now, going to college this fall. I skipped a grade.

classical_Liberal
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Re: Full Time Jobs?

Post by classical_Liberal »

Stahlmann wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 7:29 pm
However I would say that most part time jobs are availble in hcol areas (namely cities) and it is easy to break the budget with housing alone.
Not true. I currently reside in BFE Midwest, USA. High school kids get $12-14/hr for part time jobs here. Yes, the very small towns are dying, but the small-mid sized towns/cities that represent the hub of rural areas are, generally, doing very well. This will obviously vary by region, but there are at least as many rural regions doing very well, as there are bad ones.

Stahlmann
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Re: Full Time Jobs?

Post by Stahlmann »

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Jin+Guice
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Re: Full Time Jobs?

Post by Jin+Guice »

I am basically doing this right now. I have one main gig that pays very highly and several side gigs that don't pay as well. I would work harder at getting side gigs if I needed them and probably go for another part-time job if I lost my main gig. I have 3 degrees in 3 different areas and a professional certification in another area. I'm starting 1-3 businesses this year, all low-cost to start and all based on things I already know how to do. I have very low expenses. I sort of accomplished this by accident and I can't give you a blueprint of how to do it. All I can tell you is, it's there if you want it. It's probably quicker to just get a high-paying job and work for 5-7 years, if you have that option, have low expenses and are gung-ho about FIREing, especially if you are interested in a field that pays high.

However, I've been working my way through https://livingafi.com and holy shit, this dude's life sounds terrible. He claims to really love the field he's in, but he still hates his job. I've never had to put up with 90% of the bullshit he talks about.

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C40
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Re: Full Time Jobs?

Post by C40 »

shadow wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 8:46 pm
I skipped a grade.
YEAH BUDDY!

BRUTE
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Re: Full Time Jobs?

Post by BRUTE »

everybody wants to be in 3rd grade but nobody wants to study them heavy math books!

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