ERE Education

Anything to do with the traditional world of get a degree, get a job as well as its alternatives
Jin+Guice
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ERE Education

Post by Jin+Guice »

I've been trying to get back into math lately. I used to really enjoy math when I was younger but then I got disenfranchised in school. I taught myself a bunch of calculus during my failed attempt at an econ PhD, which I enjoyed to an extent. Studying again when you're an adult is hard because when you're first learning math there is a more or less hierarchal path and the knowledge is obviously broadly applicable. When you're older and know the basics it's much more specific and if there's no end result, it becomes harder to know where to direct yourself. In the general population I'm pretty good at math, but here I think I'm probably in the bottom 20%. What mathematics do those of you who have a broad math knowledge find to be most useful? Is there anything you would learn again if you didn't had to start over and didn't have to use it for your job?

I've also been trying to improve my writing, mostly by posting on here and having my girlfriend give me some ad hoc advice after editing some of my longer blog posts in my journal. I used to think I was a good writer until I got her to edit one of my papers for grad school. It turns out I was wrong.

This got me thinking, what would an ERE education curriculum consist of? Obviously some of it will be self-guided based on interest, but are there any areas that you think should be required?

I would think knowing the basics of math and language should be required, but how about something else like basic chemistry (for cooking and cleaning)? I'd imagine that an ERE education would emphasize things like "shop" and "home ec" which I feel like have been deemphasized in importance by our current education system. I'm coming at this from a school perspective, thinking of areas of study as what are taught in traditional classes in their typical current education system form, which may not be the right way to think about it.

What do the rest of you think? I'm interested in both what specific things you would require and how you'd go about coming up with those requirements (i.e. traditional classes vs base them on fulfilling needs (in a maslow's hierarchy sense) vs. focus on labor market skills vs. focus on things likely to save you money etc...)

daylen
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Re: ERE Education

Post by daylen »

It is hard to pinpoint topics. The most robust advice is to question everything and follow your interest. This is not what you are looking for though. The basics in every discipline are essential.

One major factor is the way you learn, and this can be quite subjective. A general trick is to learn things in multiple ways and connect what you learn to other aspects of life. It can be more efficient to understand the framework first then fill in the details as necessary. All the different ways of learning are subject to various trade-offs. A more thorough answer to the question "what am I learning for" will help direct attention.

There is also the idea of systemic levels. Some levels are easier to analyze than others due to the ability to observe or interact with them in relative isolation. Some well-defined levels include particles, molecules, proteins, cells, organisms, lineages, species, firms, cities, planets, solar systems, and galaxies. Less well-defined levels include organs, populations, institutions, ecosystems, and nations.

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Jean
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Re: ERE Education

Post by Jean »

Statistics start easy and help a lot to understand thé World.

7Wannabe5
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Re: ERE Education

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

I think ecology and anthropology would both be helpful.

Kriegsspiel
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Re: ERE Education

Post by Kriegsspiel »

Accounting
Biographies
Biology
History
Economics
Electronics/electricity
Etiquette & "social skills"
Exercise science & nutrition
Martial arts/weapons
Mythology/religion
Geography/cartography
Humor
At least 1 extra language
Literature
Mythology/religion
Philosophy
Programming/coding (I don't know anything about this, but I'm pretty sure it's important)
Plumbing
Tetlock-style forecasting (logic/statistics.. applied statistics?)

EDIT
First aid/trauma medicine
Law/civics
Last edited by Kriegsspiel on Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

daylen
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Re: ERE Education

Post by daylen »

Now that many different concept clusters have been named, it might be helpful to mention a super-structure for organizing it all in a more efficient configuration (systems theory).

https://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Gen ... 0932633498

daylen
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Re: ERE Education

Post by daylen »

The thing about math is that it can be much more precise than English (or other common languages) but it can also be much less accurate (and often is).

Common languages can get close enough to the bullseye for people to agree, and mathematics hits the same spot each time with no room for disagreement (without changing the assumptions/approach). In math, the assumptions are explicit and can be followed all the way back to basic axiomatic logic, such as ...

A implies B
A
Therefore B

If you want to know where math comes from then the book "Introduction to Mathematical Philosophy" by Bertrand Russell is not a bad place to start.

daylen
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Re: ERE Education

Post by daylen »

One of the more beautiful topics in mathematics, in my opinion, is fractal geometry. Look up the mandelbrot set on YouTube.

This stuff can help describe things like coastlines, blood vessels, cities, markets, ecosystems, and much more. It can help explain how complex systems scale.

Jin+Guice
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Re: ERE Education

Post by Jin+Guice »

@Kriegsspiel: Have you attempted to learn any of these?

@7w5: What's a good intro to ecology book?

@Jean: Thanks for the tip

@daylen: I often think of a list similar to Kriegsspiels and then I think, how am I ever going to do this? I've read a few systems theories books but I couldn't see how to tie what they were taking about into my actual life, unless you count ERE as a systems theory book.

daylen
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Re: ERE Education

Post by daylen »

It requires some imagination to see how it all fits together. I am not really sure how you learn or what you are learning for so it is hard to help. I advise against learning a series of isolated facts. Try to make analogies between different bodies of knowledge.

How is the human body like an ecosystem? What is the difference between a car and the human body? What is the difference between a simple and complex system? Why does it matter? Does there exist a dichotomy between form and substance? What is physical and what is abstract? How is a computer structured? Is a brain a computer? What are the necessary conditions for something to be a computer? Is chemistry just physics on a different scale? Is geology just physics on a larger scale? Is everything physics? If a theory explains everything, then does it mean anything? What does it mean for a theory to be consistent? What is a model? How accurate can a model for a complex system be? Can some features of a complex system be predictied by other features? How is a small city similar/different to a large city? What is non-linear behavior? How does this explain the limitations of medicine and politics? What is a probability? How do you quantify something and what does that mean? What is a probability distribution? What is the difference between energy and entropy? How is all of this relevant to life? What is life? What are the major constraints of life? How is information encoded in the brain? What effects the learning process? What is a process? What is time? Does time exist? Is everything just a structure? What is structure? Is language just a tool? Is language necessary? Does there exist a universal morality? What is the purpose of play? How did everything evolve into existence? What does is mean if something is adaptive? Do selfish systems survive? What is a virus and how does is go viral across a population? What is a population? What are the units of society? What is a unit? What is a dimension? What is data? How is data interpreted? Are there an infinite number of ways to interpret data? What does this mean for the future of science? What does science do? Are there rules in science? What if something cannot be measured? What are the limits of computation?
Last edited by daylen on Tue Dec 25, 2018 10:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Kriegsspiel
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Re: ERE Education

Post by Kriegsspiel »

Jin+Guice wrote:
Tue Dec 25, 2018 9:34 pm
@Kriegsspiel: Have you attempted to learn any of these?
Yea of course. I tried to get into programming but I just can't even.
@daylen: I often think of a list similar to Kriegsspiels and then I think, how am I ever going to do this? I've read a few systems theories books but I couldn't see how to tie what they were taking about into my actual life, unless you count ERE as a systems theory book.
Read more books, get jobs that teach skills, do projects like buying a house and remodeling it, doing your own taxes & looking into the tax code, online courses, starting a wonky blog, whatever... If you just read about a bunch of different stuff for years on end and do a variety of things, you're gonna accumulate a lot of knowledge. Simple.

Jin+Guice
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Re: ERE Education

Post by Jin+Guice »

@Kriegsspiel: I pretty much read non-stop. I often worry I read too much and do too little. Have you used jobs to learn various new skills? I'm intrigued by this, especially since I don't plan on fully retiring ever and am bored of my current job.

BRUTE
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Re: ERE Education

Post by BRUTE »

how much weed was daylen smoking?
daylen wrote:
Tue Dec 25, 2018 10:08 pm
How is the human body like an ecosystem? It's made of subsystems with many emergent and non-linear effects.
What is the difference between a car and the human body? Cars are well understood by humans and easier to make.
What is the difference between a simple and complex system? Complex systems are hard to predict and model.
Why does it matter? At this point in time, most interesting questions left open concern complex systems.
Does there exist a dichotomy between form and substance? No.
What is physical and what is abstract? Humans die. Ideas don't.
How is a computer structured? Most computers in use today are Von Neumann machines, i.e. they share instruction and computing memory.
Is a brain a computer? Not by the above definition, but clearly in some sense. Human-made computers are not yet at the level of complexity of the human brain. Maybe never will.
What are the necessary conditions for something to be a computer? Processes happen in it. In a sense, reality is a computer.
Is chemistry just physics on a different scale? No.
Is geology just physics on a larger scale? No.
Is everything physics? Is writing the same as chopping down trees just because books are printed on paper?
If a theory explains everything, then does it mean anything? Brute has not yet encountered such a theory.
What does it mean for a theory to be consistent? Brute is not sure theories can be consistent/inconsistent. Humans can in their use of theories?
What is a model? A simplified representation of something else.
How accurate can a model for a complex system be? Very, but often not enough.
Can some features of a complex system be predictied by other features? Sometimes.
How is a small city similar/different to a large city? Size.
What is non-linear behavior? Changes between a1->a2 are different in size/impact than e.g. a100->a101.
How does this explain the limitations of medicine and politics? Does it? Brute would say emergence is a better explanation for both.
What is a probability? Chance X will happen.
How do you quantify something and what does that mean? Counting. Unsure it means anything.
What is a probability distribution? Bundle of probabilities.
What is the difference between energy and entropy? Difference is not the right word, even though both are words that begin with 'e'. Entropy is a phenomenon about the distribution of energy over time.
How is all of this relevant to life? Not very, on the micro level. On the macro level, life doesn't exist.
What is life? That depends on what the definition of 'is' is.
What are the major constraints of life? Oxygen and water.
How is information encoded in the brain? Biochemically and electrically.
What effects the learning process? Sensory inputs and synaptic plasticity.
What is a process? Basically just the movement through time.
What is time? The axis of state changes over causation.
Does time exist? Yes. All of it.
Is everything just a structure? Just everything physical.
What is structure? Constellation of atoms or sub-particles in certain ways.
Is language just a tool? "Just"?
Is language necessary? For what?
Does there exist a universal morality? Might makes right.
What is the purpose of play? Depends.
How did everything evolve into existence? One step at a time.
What does is mean if something is adaptive? It adapts.
Do selfish systems survive? Sometimes.
What is a virus and how does is go viral across a population? Host transmission and incubation.
What is a population? Group of e.g. mammals or other entities deemed interesting to study.
What are the units of society? Individual, family, and a few more.
What is a unit? Word used for counting things.
What is a dimension? A degree of freedom, i.e. a potentially non-fixed variable.
What is data? Pretty much everything is data.
How is data interpreted? Typically through the eye of the beholder.
Are there an infinite number of ways to interpret data? Yes.
What does this mean for the future of science? It won't get any easier.
What does science do? Systematically accumulate knowledge.
Are there rules in science? There are, but there shouldn't be. "Against Method" by Feyerabend.
What if something cannot be measured? Yea, what?
What are the limits of computation? NP-completeness.
answers inline.

wolf
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Re: ERE Education

Post by wolf »

+1 daylen
+1 brute

daylen
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Re: ERE Education

Post by daylen »

The purpose of the exercise is to encourage imagination. Everything is more complicated than it first appears. Everything connects to everything else. What happens when you find a question that no one else knows? Or if you encounter a situation where existing models are not sufficient? Can an answer ever be complete? Is knowing just a tool for doing? Is there more to life than doing? Is the purpose of life to achieve a series of goals? If life is path-dependent, then does the process used while achieving a goal matter? How can the outcome and process of life be balanced? Can hypothesizing be fun?

Creativity takes work, but that work makes life more interesting and satisfying to me. I do not need to smoke. :)
Last edited by daylen on Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:34 am, edited 2 times in total.

daylen
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Re: ERE Education

Post by daylen »

Many people on the form here seem to focus on goals and their outcomes. What happens if the outcomes fail to satisfy? Is it possible to be ERE while ignoring outcomes and focusing on the processes you engage in?

Should knowledge be in a steady state during the course of a goal? Is it possible to adapt knowledge during the goal to understand the most efficient path? Could this path-awareness be of utility for later goals? If the path matters, then how can an awareness of evolutionary history help?

daylen
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Re: ERE Education

Post by daylen »

What is the difference between a car and the human body? Cars are well understood by humans and easier to make.
I was thinking that cars can be diagnosed in a linear way since the parts are sufficiently isolated, but linear diagnostics for humans (medicine) fails in a reliable way.

Does there exist a dichotomy between form and substance? No.
Can it be useful? Do we not assume its existence when in conversation?

What are the necessary conditions for something to be a computer? Processes happen in it. In a sense, reality is a computer.
So if a computer is in some sense reality, then does it mean anything in that sense?

Is chemistry just physics on a different scale? No.
Is geology just physics on a larger scale? No.

Depends on how a discipline is defined, but I lean towards the no side given that people tend to associate the process of knowledge acquisition with disciplines. This relates to the thread where we discussed economics and science.

Is everything physics? Is writing the same as chopping down trees just because books are printed on paper?
If a theory explains everything, then does it mean anything? Brute has not yet encountered such a theory.

initial conditions + laws of physics = explains all observations with enough computational power ... but does that mean anything?

What does it mean for a theory to be consistent? Brute is not sure theories can be consistent/inconsistent. Humans can in their use of theories?
I am not sure either, but typically a formal system is not considered consistent if the axioms contradict each other somehow.

How is a small city similar/different to a large city? Size.
What about in relation to energy measures and industry/business availability?

How does this explain the limitations of medicine and politics? Does it? Brute would say emergence is a better explanation for both.
Could be. Applying linear strategies to a non-linear system doesn't work for long, so often compromise and communication improves diagnostic ability.

What is a probability? Chance X will happen.
What is chance? Is a probability just a frequency? Is the dichotomy between prior and posterior probability important?

What is the difference between energy and entropy? Difference is not the right word, even though both are words that begin with 'e'. Entropy is a phenomenon about the distribution of energy over time.
A better word might be "relate". I was thinking of information entropy. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropy_i ... ion_theory
Despite the foregoing, there is a difference between the two quantities. The information entropy H can be calculated for any probability distribution (if the "message" is taken to be that the event i which had probability pi occurred, out of the space of the events possible), while the thermodynamic entropy S refers to thermodynamic probabilities pi specifically. The difference is more theoretical than actual, however, because any probability distribution can be approximated arbitrarily closely by some thermodynamic system.
How is all of this relevant to life? Not very, on the micro level. On the macro level, life doesn't exist.
What is life? That depends on what the definition of 'is' is.
What are the major constraints of life? Oxygen and water.

I was thinking that a living system imports negentropy and stores it. Is death required for life?

How is information encoded in the brain? Biochemically and electrically.
Can considering more dependencies be useful? What happens before that?

What effects the learning process? Sensory inputs and synaptic plasticity.
What about hormones and genetics?

Is everything just a structure? Just everything physical.
What about a circle?

What is structure? Constellation of atoms or sub-particles in certain ways.
This comes back to form and substance. It could be useful to consider structure as an abstraction of the average constellation of the parts of a physical system. Why not differentiate between physical and informational structure?

Is language just a tool? "Just"?
Is language necessary? For what?

Exactly.

How did everything evolve into existence? One step at a time.
How can the process be modeled?

What does is mean if something is adaptive? It adapts.
Can the adaptive ability of a system be measured and predicted?

Do selfish systems survive? Sometimes.
Are they likely to reproduce and persist? How does this relate to cancer, infections, memes, addictions, psychopathology, and authoritarianism?

What is a virus and how does is go viral across a population? Host transmission and incubation.
Does it make sense for a virus to infect the whole population? (assuming the goal is to persist over evolutionary time)

What if something cannot be measured? Yea, what?
Imagination, story, and play may be helpful.

Kriegsspiel
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Re: ERE Education

Post by Kriegsspiel »

Jin+Guice wrote:
Tue Dec 25, 2018 11:02 pm
@Kriegsspiel: I pretty much read non-stop. I often worry I read too much and do too little.
Education is learning, which you can do by reading. So stop worrying.
Have you used jobs to learn various new skills?
Yes.
I'm intrigued by this, especially since I don't plan on fully retiring ever and am bored of my current job.
Well just look for jobs that utilize skills that you might be interested in, or that would require you to learn interesting stuff to become good at the work. Or hell, that just look fun... Or become FI so that you can spend your time studying whatever you want to, treating it like a job.

Another ploy might be to get a mindless job that pays you but where you can be learning something interesting anyway. Like being an Amazon delivery driver listening to podcasts/audiobooks and dictating notes all day, or being a security guard on the graveyard shift so you can write books (Aaron Clarey) or work on something else. Mind the difference between an Uber driver/bus driver (can't be listening to podcasts) and a truck driver/Amazon driver who can because they're alone. I'm reminded of this Ran Prieur quote:
How to subvert your job?

The worst way is to try to preach to your co-workers. The best way is just by thinking about stuff other than your job on time they're paying you for. You've got to build a sense of your own value and identity that has nothing to do with how you make your money. And if you let other people at your job see that, some of them might be inspired. The next step is to use job time to work on personal projects. People think Einstein was smart. He was just lucky -- he had that great patent office job that gave him a steady income and hours every day to do his own stuff.

Where are these "low pay, low status, easy" jobs?

Well, when I say "low," I don't mean Wal-Mart low. I'm thinking of low-end "professional" jobs, where you have a cubicle or maybe even a tiny office, and you can get away with doing four hours of work in an eight hour day. Of course you'll never get promoted, but you don't want to be! Those jobs are out there. The problem is there's no way to ask for them. If your job is too stressful, look for another one. Repeat until you get lucky. And go for boring over cool. A job at a video game company is likely to work you to death. The best job I ever had was as the flunky office boy for a lease administration office. Here's a great page of advice from Dan, How to find your Dream Job (dead link).

Also, Robert comments:
...in 1998 I quit my bank analyst job with plans to start my business. I had about nine months of savings and time to play with before my expected opening date, so I got an $8.25/hour office job pulling faxes and routing calls. I worked about four hours a day at my "job" and four hours a day surfing the Internet, making calls, formulating strategies, in connection with starting up my import business. And those people in that office thought I was the most efficient and capable person ever to have that position.

And Patricia comments:
Colleges are good places to find those "four hours work / four hours net surfing" kinds of jobs. Anything with "administrative" in the title will usually qualify. If you have the right attitude ("I'm just here putting in time to get cash for a couple years") then they are also low-stress. People around you may be stressy, but you can learn to let that roll off your back.

And Jason comments:
Don't overlook security guards! The hardest thing about it is filling a twelve hour shift, and you learn a lot of stuff that helps you stay under the radar. The ideal job is where you sit in a shack with (monitored) internet access and check people in and out on the night shift. I also get a preview of what's coming for society, and get to test it now (tin foil does a great job of blocking an RFID badge). Before you apply know that your fingerprints will be put in the FBI files.
http://ranprieur.com/archives/advice2006.html
Mike (Lacking Ambition, used to post here) utilized this strategy too. Here are some pertinent pages, but his whole blog is dope.

BRUTE
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Re: ERE Education

Post by BRUTE »

daylen wrote:
Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:32 am
Does there exist a dichotomy between form and substance? No.
Can it be useful? Do we not assume its existence when in conversation?

example? brute does not understand what daylen is talking about.

What are the necessary conditions for something to be a computer? Processes happen in it. In a sense, reality is a computer.
So if a computer is in some sense reality, then does it mean anything in that sense?

what does "mean" mean here? it seems tautological. it means it's a computer.

Is everything physics? Is writing the same as chopping down trees just because books are printed on paper?
If a theory explains everything, then does it mean anything? Brute has not yet encountered such a theory.

initial conditions + laws of physics = explains all observations with enough computational power ... but does that mean anything?

daylen keeps using that word, "mean". definition please.

What does it mean for a theory to be consistent? Brute is not sure theories can be consistent/inconsistent. Humans can in their use of theories?
I am not sure either, but typically a formal system is not considered consistent if the axioms contradict each other somehow.

ok sure, then yes. this means all theories are inconsistent if brute understands Gödel's uncertainty theorem right, because every formal system can be proven to be contradictory.

How is a small city similar/different to a large city? Size.
What about in relation to energy measures and industry/business availability?

some things grow exponentially with linear increase in size.

How does this explain the limitations of medicine and politics? Does it? Brute would say emergence is a better explanation for both.
Could be. Applying linear strategies to a non-linear system doesn't work for long, so often compromise and communication improves diagnostic ability.

brute is unsure what linearity of strategies has to do with compromise and communication.

What is a probability? Chance X will happen.
What is chance? Is a probability just a frequency? Is the dichotomy between prior and posterior probability important?

out of x attempts, it will happen y times. frequencies seem more deterministic than probabilities to brute, even though they represent similar things. what is the dichotomy?

What is the difference between energy and entropy? Difference is not the right word, even though both are words that begin with 'e'. Entropy is a phenomenon about the distribution of energy over time.
A better word might be "relate". I was thinking of information entropy. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropy_i ... ion_theory

decreasing (information) entropy requires energy.

What are the major constraints of life? Oxygen and water.
I was thinking that a living system imports negentropy and stores it. Is death required for life?

only for it to end.

How is information encoded in the brain? Biochemically and electrically.
Can considering more dependencies be useful? What happens before that?

sure can be.

What effects the learning process? Sensory inputs and synaptic plasticity.
What about hormones and genetics?

causally upstream of the actual learning happening, yes. there are tons of things upstream of synaptic plasticity, including rest, recovery, hormones, genetics, and much more.

Is everything just a structure? Just everything physical.
What about a circle?

hm. brute would consider a circle an idea(l), but he'd agree that idea(l)s can have structure just as physical entities can. maybe structure is an abstraction after all, describing constellation of (physical or ideal) entities.

What is structure? Constellation of atoms or sub-particles in certain ways.
This comes back to form and substance. It could be useful to consider structure as an abstraction of the average constellation of the parts of a physical system. Why not differentiate between physical and informational structure?

as seen above, brute would agree with this.

Is language just a tool? "Just"?
Is language necessary? For what?

Exactly.

wat?

How did everything evolve into existence? One step at a time.
How can the process be modeled?

brute isn't sure it can.

What does is mean if something is adaptive? It adapts.
Can the adaptive ability of a system be measured and predicted?

in simple systems (e.g. suspension).

Do selfish systems survive? Sometimes.
Are they likely to reproduce and persist? How does this relate to cancer, infections, memes, addictions, psychopathology, and authoritarianism?

it depends. some of the systems daylen mentions are too greedy to survive what humans would consider a long time. a system can definitely self-destruct directly or by destroying its host by being too selfish.

What is a virus and how does is go viral across a population? Host transmission and incubation.
Does it make sense for a virus to infect the whole population? (assuming the goal is to persist over evolutionary time)

ascribing sense-making and goals to a non-living phenomenon does not seem useful. sometimes it happens.

What if something cannot be measured? Yea, what?
Imagination, story, and play may be helpful.

they definitely seem helpful to brute, measured or not.

daylen
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Re: ERE Education

Post by daylen »

@brute I am not trying to invalidate your logic. We have created a metalogue -- "a metalogue is a conversation about some problematic subject. This conversation should be such that not only do the participants discuss the problem but the structure of the conversation as a whole is also relevant to the same subject."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steps_t ... gy_of_Mind

One thing I am attempting to show is that the form of the conversation may have implications on how other humans learn the substance. Meaning is in the eyes of the beholder, so the way that information is presented matters when teaching.

What I meant by linear strategies is that individual humans tend to come up with step-by-step algorithms for how to get from A to B, but this approach does not work indefinitely when trying to fix a complex system. A dialog between multiple humans all coming up with their own solutions is more robust (but only if they are willing to compromise their individual solutions to a group strategy). It is certainty possible for humans to entertain multiple perspectives, but it is not that common.

Treating past probabilities as different from future probabilities appears to make a difference in prediction.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayesian_statistics

Negentropy appears to have utility. Seems to relate to how humans assume that life forms have the potential to change/adapt while remaining ordered.
This definition enabled: i) scale-invariant thermodynamic representation of dynamic order existence, ii) formulation of physical principles exclusively for dynamic order existence and evolution, and iii) mathematical interpretation of Schrödinger's negentropy debt.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negentropy

Ideas, structures, abstractions, patterns... after enough dialog they seem to be quite ambiguous.
Is language just a tool? "Just"?
Is language necessary? For what?
Exactly.
wat?
I say exactly, because I agree that these are the correct counter questions.

There seems to be a fundamental difference in how we value evolutionary theory. I wonder what evolutionary explainations could help shine light on this? This is where ecology and economics starts to blur. If a system is complex, has a variable cost, and persist over evolutionary time span, then that may be a good indicator of being adaptive (for the individual). For instance, some bird species are brightly colored: birds are complex, different birds have sightly different shades, brighter colored birds are more likely to get eaten by a predator, and there have been birds with bright colors for a long time. This seems to be a decent test for how a trait will persist into the future. This is obviously complicated by the idea that selection happens at every level simultaneously (gene, individual, species, ecosystem, and everywhere in-between). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adaptation

I think that this type of analysis is useful for determining what I should do with my limited time here on earth. Maybe you do not find it useful and that is fine with me (diversity keeps ideas moving), but I think that others may find the evolutionary literature interesting.
What if something cannot be measured? Yea, what?
Imagination, story, and play may be helpful.
they definitely seem helpful to brute, measured or not.
It seems to me that these forms of information gathering/storage provide substance that cannot easily be acquired with more linearized, goal-oriented thinking. Not having a goal and being less predictable in communication seems to help the bulk of people learn certain things easier. Not imposing a strict purpose is less likely to turn certain humans away.

These questions remain open. There is no universally accepted answer or metic by which to judge them, yet they seem to hint at the limitations of knowing (epistemology).

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