Is it a good idea to dropout of school to retire much faster ?

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dropoutretire
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Is it a good idea to dropout of school to retire much faster ?

Post by dropoutretire » Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:04 am

I am curious if people on here think that dropping out of school is a faster way to retire earlier in life ? Whats your thoughts on this ?

suomalainen
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Re: Is it a good idea to dropout of school to retire much faster ?

Post by suomalainen » Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:22 am

So long as you don't link to your facebook page, I think it's a great idea.

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Re: Is it a good idea to dropout of school to retire much faster ?

Post by prognastat » Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:18 pm

@suomalainen

LOL

@dropoutretire

I would say it depends. If you have the skills to make good money without a degree then starting sooner rather than later can make it faster. In my current career I manage to make 80k+ annually and my education has been irrelevant to it. The main reason I'm able to do this is due to my extensive experience with computers/electronics for my entire life. Despite completing high school and some college I could have dropped out of high school and probably be exactly where I am now regardless and possibly gotten to this level sooner. If you don't have any particularly financially beneficial skills though then getting some through education and using the benefits of having a degree could be worth the time and money spent on achieving this.

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Re: Is it a good idea to dropout of school to retire much faster ?

Post by SavingWithBabies » Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:51 pm

Do what works. I tried to not go to college. Okay, well, technically I dropped out. Couldn't really make a good go of it for unrelated reasons. Later on, went back to college, smooth path and everything is going well for me.

I think like a lot of things in life, there is no one true answer for something like this. Do what you want to do until it doesn't work and then try doing something different. Which requires actively thinking about what you're doing so you can step back and consider other choices. That's probably the important bit.

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Re: Is it a good idea to dropout of school to retire much faster ?

Post by Kriegsspiel » Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:55 pm

I think people who are destined for upper-level intelligence work and/or hands-on trades are both alright saying 'screw school.' So, like people who are developing apps or getting hired by people who they impress to do computer work, and the kid who has fun messing with cars or HVAC systems, or even who just realizes they're not that smart (so why waste money/go into debt). Most everyone else is gonna need a degree to get the best job they can (prisoner's dilemma).

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Re: Is it a good idea to dropout of school to retire much faster ?

Post by ThisDinosaur » Thu Jul 26, 2018 3:29 pm

I gather dropoutretire has already made a decision on this subject. Yes?

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Re: Is it a good idea to dropout of school to retire much faster ?

Post by prognastat » Thu Jul 26, 2018 4:55 pm

@ThisDinosaur

Given the name I would assume so.

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Re: Is it a good idea to dropout of school to retire much faster ?

Post by C40 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:40 pm

(I'm assuming you're talking about dropping out before graduating high school)

It'd be useful numerically for someone who is certain they will enter and stay in an unskilled trade. For most of the people that have other aspirations, it'd be a huge gamble. As general advice, it's a horrible idea.

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Re: Is it a good idea to dropout of school to retire much faster ?

Post by prognastat » Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:49 pm

C40 wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:40 pm
It'd be useful numerically for someone who is certain they will enter and stay in an unskilled trade. For most of the people that have other aspirations, it'd be a huge gamble. As general advice, it's a horrible idea.
I'd say this is untrue, depending on what you feel is unskilled trade. Most programming hiring is still based in large part on ability and you can get hired if you can show you have put in the work(completing tests/showing a portfolio of things you have done prior) without needing a degree for example and I would say this is quite far from the unskilled trade side of things.

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Re: Is it a good idea to dropout of school to retire much faster ?

Post by C40 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:01 pm

That's a good point.

So, for someone who wants to be a programmer, there could be use to it. There would still be limitations on where you can work. In the large company I worked at, you couldn't get any job without at least a GED. Technical and management jobs needed (significantly) more.

It could also be useful for some highly driven and entrepreneurial people to drop out. On average, though, it's a bad idea. Here are the numbers, from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_ ... ted_States

AVERAGE INCOMES:
  • Some high school - $25k
  • High School graduate - $34k
  • Associates - $38k
  • Bachelors - $61k
I did the math, using $8,000 part time earnings for student years, $50k cost of college, 3% annual income increase, plus a 10% promotion every 10 years for everyone. The dropout quits school at 15 and works full time from then on.

On cumulative income the HS grad crosses ahead of the dropout at age 26. The college grad is ahead at age 27, and then pulling ahead fast. At age 50, here are the earnings:
  • Dropout: 1.4 mil
  • Highschool grad: 1.8 mil
  • College grad: 2.7 mil

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Re: Is it a good idea to dropout of school to retire much faster ?

Post by dropoutretire » Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:24 pm

C40 wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:40 pm
(I'm assuming you're talking about dropping out before graduating high school)

It'd be useful numerically for someone who is certain they will enter and stay in an unskilled trade. For most of the people that have other aspirations, it'd be a huge gamble. As general advice, it's a horrible idea.
LOL !!!!! Are you kidding right ??? A huge gamble ???? Theres one word that kills your theory of being a HUGE GAMBLE. The one word that everyone never thinks about is INFLATION !!!! LOL !!!! I dropped out at 15 an retired by 39 all because of beating inflation. I started buying houses at 22 and ended up buying 6 houses by about 35. I would have never even came close to buying 6 houses if I would have done 2 more years of high school and 4 more years of college. School for the most of society is an enormous waste of time vacuum. Heck I talked to a school teacher today and I told her that I tell high school kids all of the time that they should dropout and of course her brainwashed ass disagreed with me. I told her that she was a disease on the tax payer and teachers are needlessly putting home owners into tax payer slavery !!!!!! The teacher said I'm a huge believer in education. I said wow !!!! YOUR JUST CHURNING OUT THE MILLIONAIRES ARENT YOU !!!! LMAO !!!!! WHAT A JOKE !!!!! I said to her that I believe in education soooooo much that I had to leave and I've learned more on youtube in 2 months than I ever learned in a classroom !!!!! LOL !!!!

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Re: Is it a good idea to dropout of school to retire much faster ?

Post by dropoutretire » Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:41 pm

C40 wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:01 pm
That's a good point.

So, for someone who wants to be a programmer, there could be use to it. There would still be limitations on where you can work. In the large company I worked at, you couldn't get any job without at least a GED. Technical and management jobs needed (significantly) more.

It could also be useful for some highly driven and entrepreneurial people to drop out. On average, though, it's a bad idea. Here are the numbers, from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_ ... ted_States

AVERAGE INCOMES:
  • Some high school - $25k
  • High School graduate - $34k
  • Associates - $38k
  • Bachelors - $61k
I did the math, using $8,000 part time earnings for student years, $50k cost of college, 3% annual income increase, plus a 10% promotion every 10 years for everyone. The dropout quits school at 15 and works full time from then on.

On cumulative income the HS grad crosses ahead of the dropout at age 26. The college grad is ahead at age 27, and then pulling ahead fast. At age 50, here are the earnings:
  • Dropout: 1.4 mil
  • Highschool grad: 1.8 mil
  • College grad: 2.7 mil
WAIT A SECOND !!!! Hit the Fricking brakes !!!! LOL !!!! Did you just say at age 50 ? LOL !!!! Isn't this site about trying to retire at least in your 30's not 50 ? LOL !!!! I think that your on the wrong site with all of that 50 year old and still working stuff. ALWAYS REMEMBER THAT THE WORD CAREER IS A 4 letter word with 2 extra letters that SHALL NOT BE WORSHIPPED !!!! The word career in itself is a long term word or long ted thinking. The word career shouldn't be even allowed on this site because it inherently goes against the grain of Early Retirement Extreme !!!! LOL !!!!!
Last edited by dropoutretire on Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Is it a good idea to dropout of school to retire much faster ?

Post by C40 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:48 pm

dropoutretire wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:24 pm
YOUR
you mean "you're", as in you are. Not "your", as in the possessive version of you. LOL !!!!!!

As I said, on average, the crossover points are at age 26 and 27.

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Re: Is it a good idea to dropout of school to retire much faster ?

Post by dropoutretire » Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:51 pm

suomalainen wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:22 am
So long as you don't link to your facebook page, I think it's a great idea.
People crack me up !!!! They are soooooooo afraid of a Facebook page link. They act as if I just said hey GO DIG THAT 50 FOOT LONG TRENCH 4 FEET DEEP with a teaspoon. Now that would be horrible !!!! But the purpose of my question was about INFLATION and the cost of losing out in the investments due to sitting on your ass in class and missing out on things like houses and stocks that are always inflating daily around you. School costs way way way more than people realize due to INFLATION !!!! LOL !!!!!

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Re: Is it a good idea to dropout of school to retire much faster ?

Post by dropoutretire » Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:44 pm

C40 wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:48 pm
dropoutretire wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:24 pm
YOUR
you mean "you're", as in you are. Not "your", as in the possessive version of you. LOL !!!!!!

As I said, on average, the crossover points are at age 26 and 27.
woo woo woo ITS THE GRAMMAR POLICE !!!! LOL !!!!

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Re: Is it a good idea to dropout of school to retire much faster ?

Post by dropoutretire » Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:50 pm

ThisDinosaur wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 3:29 pm
I gather dropoutretire has already made a decision on this subject. Yes?
Yes decision was already made 32 years ago when I was only 15 and 1 month into my sophomore year in high school !!!! I always say that I was far too much of a cheapskate to sit there in class when I could be making at least minimum wage and minimum wage back then was a measly $3.35 an hour !!!! Can you believe that I hated sitting in class thinking about the loss of about $24 a day ? But hey that $24 a day added up to a whopping $6240 a year !!!! Thats like paying $6240 a year for high school and being bored TO DEATH OUT OF MY MIND !!!!! LOL !!!!!! But thanks to that decision I ended up beating inflation, buying 6 houses because houses were very cheap back then and retiring by the ripe young age of 39 !!!!! I BEAT THE SYSTEM !!!! LOL !!!!! :D

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Re: Is it a good idea to dropout of school to retire much faster ?

Post by slowtraveler » Fri Jul 27, 2018 2:41 am

My friend did, got a ged early, went to college and was happier for it.

@C40.

What about the year spent earning earlier, investing said earnings, cost of room (50k for 5 years is very low), and lower taxes on these earnings. It seems you're missing some compounding in the calculations.

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Re: Is it a good idea to dropout of school to retire much faster ?

Post by wood » Fri Jul 27, 2018 5:23 am

dropoutretire wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:04 am
I am curious if people on here think that dropping out of school is a faster way to retire earlier in life ? Whats your thoughts on this ?
I don't think it's faster/better for everyone and anyone, but it can definetely be faster for some. You're proof of that. I doubt it would be the best option for me personally, but I'll never know. I went the school route and on track to retire at 36.

@C40:
AVERAGE INCOMES: • Some high school - $25k
• High School graduate - $34k
• Associates - $38k
• Bachelors - $61k
I did the math, using $8,000 part time earnings for student years, $50k cost of college, 3% annual income increase, plus a 10% promotion every 10 years for everyone. The dropout quits school at 15 and works full time from then on.
Studies are supposed to be full time work. If a student can have a part time job, the dropout should work more than just full time. He will also get promotions more often, because if he doesn't, he will figure out he needs an education and go back to school.

There are too many conditions to consider and this can't be compared using simple math.

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Re: Is it a good idea to dropout of school to retire much faster ?

Post by Farm_or » Fri Jul 27, 2018 6:54 am

Ah yes! The good old individual affidavit vs the scientific case study?

For the choice few cognitive enough at age fifteen to ask themselves the op question, maybe it should be given serious contemplation. For the vast majority: "stay in school."

You'll never really know what you didn't learn. Your lack of education will be readily apparent to anyone else with an education, particularly when you are trying to communicate. And you will always have to wonder: I did good without the formal education, but how good would I have done with that head start?

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Re: Is it a good idea to dropout of school to retire much faster ?

Post by C40 » Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:27 am

@slowtraveler and @wood

I'm trying to resist the temptation to spend my time doing a detailed analysis just to prove a point to some people on the internet. That said, the more I think about it, it would be interesting to see the results of certain scenarios. We're had numerous discussions here along the lines of "what is the ideal education/career path for ERE?", and it would be fun to project incomes and net worths of some of the types of options that often come up in those discussions. A couple are: a 16 year-old dropping out, learning coding, and making $50k/year at age 18 (they'd obviously come out ahead)... Or,.. can someone drop out / get GED at 15 or 16, then learn a trade like plumbing or electrical? How about becoming an underwater SCUBA construction worker? (someone I know did that kind of work, there's a lot of money in it). There are definitely a handful of scenarios where one could leave the normal education path and still have reliable and high earning potential.

Anyways, some thoughts on your points:
  • The average in-state university tuition is $10k per year. I think books would add to that. So that would be about $50k avg for 4 years of tuition and books. Living in a dorm for freshman year add an incremental cost of maybe $5k per year. At most schools that can be avoided by saying you live with family. For the kids who realize early enough how important high school grades are, scholarships reduce college spending to zero.
  • As for working during school, it's quite normal and usually expected. In many industries, college grads are expected to have some working experience in their field. It essentially part of the education. For those who don't work at all during the school year, there is still summer. But, yeah, college and working adds up to more than normal working hours, so to make my analysis even, some extra working hours should be added to the dropout.
  • About compounding: in the longer run - like to age 40 and later, it's going to push the graduates even further ahead of the dropouts. Especially when considering the next point:
  • Taxes and spending. Even with pretty low spending (say, $15k per year), the dropout has a very low savings rate, and there is little capital to compound. A quick comparison: at age 25, after taking out taxes and $15k per year of spending, the dropout can save about $7k per year while the grad saves $30k.
  • As for promotions, I believe they will come more often for the graduates. For most large companies there is a ceiling on promotions of those without degrees (and it's not even a glass ceiling, it's written down in their hiring and promotion requirements.)

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