I just plant the seed, will contribute more later. [hypomania kicked in, so I'm writing now... ARGH]
So... data points:
1) Salaries rankings are prepared by capitalists... so they have lowered expected values.
2) I just learned recently that playing "I wanna 5k USD, because I'm cool" will backfire, because HR discards, when candidate is over the budget. I was used to playing a fool..
3) Egg heads (economists, people from TV) are saying there is employee market in my country... Mean time average/median compared year to year rose by 20-30 PLN. So much win! So much oat meals!
4) My boss said that he is providing "The company academy", because knowledge of graduates is being dumped down... He says this is not case in other countries... He said "Who knows... [laughter]" [There are folks from more eastern countries atm]. How about on system level where he competes with other capitalists who have the same idea to take people from less developed countries... So smart... (1)
Yep, I read Mises/Stossel explanation that this is good for consumers... but for example check German Economy Minister comment on the fact that part of major automotive company was bought by Chinese folks... (really not major part, but like some percentage, but it allows them to have access to changing company or having votes in board. I personally don't get this magic, the same with The Gods taking over companies on Wall Street with 3-5% stake, like David Icahn [ I hope this the way to spell his name ]).
1 In the mean time he believes in Filipak s law - every task can be completed by finite numbers of graduates. This is a bit painful as... nowadays every company advertises as 'work in young dynamic team and face paced job'. I wouldn't mind working with 'stable, slow-paced, experienced team'. If you know how to spot such company, let me now.
Pause after socialist rant.
In my country they use management books from USA dated on 1990-2000. In these books is written, that year to year increase should be around inflation (so 3-4%). They believe in the same that this will be ' more rational ' to hire new person and offer 1,2X pay of last employee, and of course pay for his deployment. In the mean time, laid off employee finished on 1,06X wage (1,03 multiplied by 1,03). X is yearly salary for people with Y years of experience, Z skills. [So much rationality in human behaviour!] This brings us to next point...
So employees found the way to slave 2-3 years and then change the company. The situation of graduate can be different, because he knows nothing (on average). Those who change too often are called 'jumpers' and can be discarded. In EU some countries have different work culture, so they allow 'jumpers' (but you need knowledge to be able jump effectively) and it would be good to know language of the country you plan to work (it's not like in USA; 52 states with almost same language).
Of course, I'm not on the best curve (high X in absolute monetary term) so even 3% is a bit laughable. But better than nothing.
No mega corps here, so option to "stay in one and create the success for better future blah blah" isn't viable. Also I'm introverted. Found the guy from the same yearbook who played it (probably) pretty well... 3 Big Names Corps in last 3-4 years.
I think I will be talk over as introvert by my boss. This time I will have sheet of paper with what I accomplished.
I sit by older folks in work. The Biggest Boss said there could be raise by 200 PLN for folks with less than 1 year of experience. Well, it's an option... So I can end with the same salary as now -.-". I want to have at least 3k PLN to my hand. Now I have 2,5k PLN. Can anyone recommend me ladder in way I can negotiate salary? Of course, I'll be happy to have 2,7k PLN compared to current 2,5k PLN. Being in the zone where extreme cheap is the only option, really sucks. It even sucks more, because I from smart background, like from HS, where folks are clearing 5-7k PLN... I'm envy motherfucker and this part of life with sniffing somebody's butt begins...
Crazy (in terms of workaholism) guy from my yearbook (he focused on gaining industry experience) finished working here with 3,2k PLN for 160h work (for 4 mo.) (he was taking overtime), after slaving 1,5 yr with lower pay on "cheaper" way of employing (probably this 2,5k PLN). Management introduced "no more overtime" rule...
Other guy, slightly older with 2 yr experience finished with something below 3k PLN (he was last person who was in charge for shitty (because of client) project... the customer "killed" practically whole team of people who were in this specific project... I'm bit involved in it too).
New guy with 2-3 yr experiece received 3,5k PLN (Yep, I trained a bit my hearing abilities, such cases in open space environment).
Capitalists rates. I follow one discussion on industry internet forum. Of course, guys who make big bucks don't waste time for such things... anyway (googl translated); Well, I'm assistant of project manager, I'm posting more jobs in industry to rethink possible development:
https://zarobki.pracuj.pl/stanowiska/in ... r-mechanik
https://manager.money.pl/zarobki/asyste ... a-s52.html
http://www.pensje.net/ile-zarabia-asyst ... a-projektu
(I hope this pretty readable, what you have in your hands is liek 0,7 of numbers you see on charts)
Other interesting muses by some more experienced fellow mech eng.
Get down to earth. In the US, they pay designers barely above the national average, and Schlumberger, GE, Caterpillar or Boeing - 1.5 national average companies (https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/us-m ... KO3,22.htm) and in Poland they have to pay 2 averages for designing some primitive improvements? No way. We are not a green island, just the opposite - poor, backward by the red rothouse, an agricultural country with virtually no know-how in industry.
-.-"My observations in [Stahlman's metro area] (salaries comparable to Wroclaw):
- graduate: from the minimum (less often) to max. 4000 gross (rarely), usually 3500 gross,
- after 5 years, most 4500-5500 gross, 6000-6500 is usually a glass ceiling.
I omit the exceptions, although I know only one, in a Norwegian company, and is 7,200 gross, but work under extremely high pressures, at high pace and stress.
The difference in earnings between a statistical constructor and a trader in the technical industry is not drastic, as it amounts to 20-30% (medians some 5k gross for the constructor and 6k gross for sales). Only a trader usually has a service car with fuel for private use, so all costs associated with it fall away, which is an amount of PLN 1500-2000 non-salary benefit depending on the class of the car (for which he is cut from gross salary 250 PLN for a car with a motor to 1.6 and 400 PLN with the engine above 1.6). C segment cars are still predominant, but more and more traders in the technical sector are driving D class cars. In Germany, the Passat is the standard for an ordinary dealer, in Poland more Octavia. This is also a smart play on the part of the company, because the exchange of Focus on Mondeo in long-term rental costs after tax optimization of some PLN 300 more, and gives a better ennobling and motivational effect than PLN 300 gross increase.
During the "my time" of looking for a job (2010), the national average was around 2,500 net and ranged from a minimum to a maximum of 2,200, most often 1800-2000 net.
Now you have a national average of around 3000 net, so I suspect that the most common starting amounts are in the range of 2000-2500, probably not more than 2700-2800 net.
I also think that the pathology proposing less than 2000 net is almost gone, since the cashiers in Lidl have "two in front of the account": mrgreen: BTW buddy after mechanical is the head of technical area in Lidl and has 6,000 net + Octavia: mrgreen:
The real value of an engineer in Poland is EUR 25-30 per hour. So many large companies pay for externali and internalomites who create a company and cut it forward with a net of 6, that's a lot of referring to these shitty medians. And patolka is that the political arrangements and protecting his heat kurwidolkow allows you to take student exterminals for this money .... only the student gets 3000 net.
I have already worked in 3 countries as an engineer and in 4 as a "litter" and in none of these countries I felt like I was being moved like in Poland. We have a shit mentality .... work culture above all !!!
I do not know that. I know which companies 5-6 years ago gave about 2800-3000 net or about 4000 gross for the start because of these years (which ended studies at the time) I have colleagues with whom I talk about earnings. As the competition increased, prices increased, I dare say that now it is over 4,000 gross. I will not write names but if you are from Wro, you certainly know these companies. None of my classmates who currently have 5-6 years of experience work for less than 4,500 net. The official forks in my position end at about 15k gross and you can go even higher and higher. And again you can complain about the statistics, but remember that the constructor proving to other constructors that they earn money should be happy that they earn their own nest - people after graduation work for 3500 gross (pity - in Lidlu you have 3,600) and you wages do not grow, because the employer is not afraid that everyone will be left behind. In Wrocław, people understand this, I think it does not seem to be enough - you do not get enough pay - you change your job for a better paying one. Every month, several people leave me - after all, they do not work for less money. Maybe soon the wave will begin to go to IT - it will only be interesting, how suddenly will it be who to do.
Well just no. To illustrate: assistant president and deputy chairman, vice president, it's completely different duties, responsibility and, above all, the cashier - the assistant will earn several times less than the president, and the vice president similarly or just a little less. Although some employers do not cognize these concepts and can write one and think the other. Koleżanka is the assistant of the president, she transfers papers for 2.5k in microfire, but on the stamp she has a vice-president ...
Never follow STEM paths for money or ladies! They won't come!
It's not possible to deliver such rant in fast-paced talk, where ability to walk over the other side is based on ability to have smarter answer... and I'm the person who has less experience in such thing.
Don't know how to answer to the fact I was completing my duties (standard The Boss answer).
I consider staying for 1-2 years gaining experience and moving somewhere else. Currently 6 mo. experience in one place (this pretty long compared to fellow millennials , yep, I read topics of other young dogs).
I think I'm good at finding such data provided above, but I'm completely suck on smart decisions in life... ARGH.
Yep, I'm pretty harsh when it comes to rating job as part of life...:
1) The world needs a bit of communist revolutionist..
2) Yep, I'd sit in front of the computer and shit pot, if I could so so. But this not an option
3) Can't live with the fact for example Mr Andrew is living on better standard than 50-70% people I've met in my life...
4) Yep, I believe that market solutions aren't the most effective... so much effort is put in (fiduciary) competition... even The Titans of Economy like Keynes [not so many multimillionaires even here, with such great company of really smart folks...] said that combing profit motive and human greed won't yield good results... As physicists have there better opinion than cynic, bitter, mollycoddle please have a look on "Why socialism?" by Albert Einstein.
What do you think? What are yours experiences?
EDIT: Something went wrong with formatting... Why fancy quote won't work I wanted to have more answers with fancy formatting