Forum Posting Ethics

Questions and comments
Riggerjack
Posts: 3180
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:09 am

Re: Forum Posting Ethics

Post by Riggerjack »

but often my reward for dropping by is laugh out loud moments (@BRUTE, @riggerjack, @Jason),
Wait. When did I say something funny?

(Dropping to knees for best Joe Pesci imitation)" You mean, let me understand this cause, ya know maybe it's me, I'm a little fucked up maybe, but I'm funny how, I mean funny like I'm a clown, I amuse you? I make you laugh, I'm here to fuckin' amuse you? What do you mean funny, funny how? How am I funny?"

It is very nice to hear that the things I write that make me smile, also make others smile. I sometimes feel like my sense of humor is mine alone.

Jason

Re: Forum Posting Ethics

Post by Jason »

saving-10-years wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:54 am
am unconvinced that he has any interactions with the sex trade as outlined.
I’m really trying to take the high road here. I can handle the aspersions and the disparagment of my relative value. But this particular comment that calls into question my integrity is extremely upsetting to me.

slowtraveler
Posts: 722
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:06 pm

Re: Forum Posting Ethics

Post by slowtraveler »

Though I can see how one would perceive Jason as offensive, I do not doubt his integrity and consistency. He demonstrates a continued effort to become more financially efficient, he clearly adores his wife to no end, appreciates more feminine values than purely the physical, and I enjoy reading his every post. He is one of my favorites on here and I hope Jason keeps posting as a regular. I would feel sad to lose his presence on here.

All that said, this is the only forum of which I am active over a time span lasting more than years. This forum is a sacred place in that it maintains a self regulating level of mature respect for each other's individual freedom to think without succumbing to mindlessness or censorship. I constantly learn from wise souls who have done things I want to or who display character traits I admire- like Brute, Jacob, Tyler, Viktor, 7wb, etc. I am constantly impressed by how gently Jacob steers the forums in creating such a safe haven amidst a sea of either censorship or blatant immaturity.

I trust we can all continue to contribute to this space in a way that deepens what drew us all here.

distracted_at_work
Posts: 202
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 11:51 am

Re: Forum Posting Ethics

Post by distracted_at_work »

Jason wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:06 am
This board reminds me of the time I had to fulfill a science requirement in college. I was an English Major at a top science school. That one day a week I walked into the physics building I knew I was in the wrong place. That's how I sometimes feel here. It's like walking into NASA and sitting in a room of geniuses laboring over their space ships designs and the only contribution you have is "Think about it, a stripper pole in a place where there is no gravity!!!"

I know if I lived a million years I would not be able to think or develop the analytical skills like JLF and the other hard core participants. And that's an admixture of three things: I don't, I can't and I don't want to. But I do have an interest in the topic.
Putting whether or not you are offensive aside for a second, I wanted to highlight this quote because it's exactly how I feel on this board. I want to know if something works, the gist of why it works, and then let me go apply it as efficiently as possible and get on to the next thing. I'll very rarely be able to engage in a highly analytical debate or conversation without being stripper pole guy.

In general, this thread is way too meta. Let forumites live, post what you want (within reason i.e. follow the rules). Let the quality and quantity of replies be the judge of the thread and learn from there. This is the best forum I've encountered by a mile. The post on proper sock-wearing technique this week was a treasure.

User avatar
jennypenny
Posts: 6851
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 2:20 pm

Re: Forum Posting Ethics

Post by jennypenny »

I can't believe that from this moment forward, whenever I feel out of my depth in a conversation here I'm going to think of myself as 'stripper pole guy'. :lol:

CS
Posts: 709
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 10:24 pm

Re: Forum Posting Ethics

Post by CS »

@ffj

He made the public posting - on other people's journals, not his own. I would never seek him out just to read his posts and get offended.

This is a place discussing just this issue. This seems an appropriate place. Others might have some opinions on this yeah or nay. I have no illusions that behavior is magically going to change because I say something. However, it is a responsibility to say something - even if I am dreading negative feedback.

@riggerjack

I read your story - and my question to you is, is there some meta data you are missing? You are a man, no? Is there a word for men that connotes only existence as a sexual toy, such as "chick"? Have you had the experience of being reduced to this? Before telling me I am wrong, try to think through the mirror image of this experience as it would apply to you. And don't give the knee jerk reaction of "that would be great!" that men often have. Being seen as only a sexual object removes a lot more options from the table (as far as having an existence) than it gives.

Riggerjack
Posts: 3180
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:09 am

Re: Forum Posting Ethics

Post by Riggerjack »

@CS

I'm not saying you are wrong. I think I have proven I can be as blunt here as you. If I thought you were wrong, that is the term I would use. In my all time favorite annual review, my boss put down that while I demonstrate high levels of technical competence, my professional development is hampered by communicating too effectively.

I do think there are forms of communication going on here that you have missed out on. I related my tale to give you hints of where this is. I don't know how to explain it better.

I can relate to your point, my wife has very similar blind spots, and will sometimes get pissed when she takes what I thought was a clearly sarcastic comment literally. No, not my sarcastic comment, I have learned (mostly) to speak literally to her, and take her words at face value. It is sometimes surreal to be the more socially adept half of a pair.

As I said, I have been in conversations where unspoken communication happened that I missed. My general rule is to pay very special attention when my take on a situation/conversation doesn't match the group's actions/attitudes.

That is what has worked for me. I am fully aware that my solutions don't necessarily work for everyone. Maybe someone here can make this clear in ways I can't.

On the other hand, maybe you are right, and I am reading between the lines, and filling in what I want to be there, because that would make me more comfortable. Maybe Jason really is a horrible woman hater, and everyone else is just too cowardly to call him out of his mysogynistic BS.

Or, maybe you are tilting at windmills. Which do you think is more likely?

distracted_at_work
Posts: 202
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 11:51 am

Re: Forum Posting Ethics

Post by distracted_at_work »

Edited to delete. On second thought, I don't want to be involved in the offensive or not offensive discussion.

Fish
Posts: 570
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:09 am

Re: Forum Posting Ethics

Post by Fish »

@CS - You’re not alone in feeling the way the way that you do. But remember that the “report post” button is always available, and should be used when unacceptable content is encountered. Much easier and more productive than debating what is acceptable.

jacob
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Re: Forum Posting Ethics

Post by jacob »

Unlike my initial post in this thread where I weighed in with a private opinion, consider this the official final word of authority on this matter.

My house, my rules.

You're all on a forum on the internet. While one might naively conclude that this means one can say whatever one wants, it doesn't mean one should. I feel this should be obvious ... but ... in moderating this forum I sometimes find myself somewhere in between explaining to a bunch of "kids" that their drunken party pics on facebook stay up forever and explaining to grandma that the "like" button means that you actually _liked_ a post, not that you confirmed that you read it---a difference that would be quite relevant if grandma happened to "like" a random neonazi post in her feed just because she read it.

So here we go ...

I can easily see how someone would just have a few "burner"-accounts here and there don't really care about what or where they're posting. Fish used the analogy of thinking of a forum as a hotel. That's a good analogy. Some treat hotel rooms better than their own home. Some thrash them. But ultimately, they don't really care about neither the room nor the hotel.

However, for the owner of the hotel or those who frequent it regularly (long term residents), it's a bit different. In that case, there's a community. When you have a community, there are additional factors to consider.

First, you have to get along with others. This means behaving more or less within a range of parameters. That's the culture issue. What's normally okay or fun in one group can be considered rude, offensive, or useless in another. Because there's a RANGE, there's a certain amount of tolerance for behavior that lies away from the average. Even inside a group, there will likely be some tension between behavior that's okay to some but borderline to others. However, if it goes too far outside the range, then we have a problem. People start getting pissed off. And just because they don't say so in public, doesn't mean they don't start PM'ing me. And when people get sufficiently pissed off, people leave.

Second, when you're posting on a forum, it's no longer all about you the individual. What you do also affects how the forum is perceived in the wider world. IOW, you're judged by association. Example: If you're hanging out on forum that talks about neonazi stuff, reasonable people will assume that you're likely a neonazi yourself. This is where I (jacob) am a somewhat special case with my opinion, because "this is my house" (cf. hotel) and so whatever is written here also reflects on ERE and me as a whole, and therefore I put a limit(*) to the range of acceptable behavior.

I don't care what you guys say to each other in your homes, locker rooms, work places, or schools, but I care about what you say on this forum, because this in my house. This is why the prostitute handjob price guide discussion got nuked. I have my limits. For those with more relaxed limits and a greater sense of humor than me, feel free to post a price list on your own website or perhaps in your cubicle at work or email the discussion to ALL your friends and family.

(*) Effectively, this means I try to snipe anything that crosses the line ASAP before it devolves into a bigger issue that requires a tactical nuke---which you might miss too if you're not on the forum all the time. So don't make the mistake of concluding that the fact that you don't see much of a problem means that the problem wasn't there. I should also note that my (and by extension the forum's enforcement) limits are somewhat/rather elastic (see rule 10). I will tolerate single incidents a lot better than repeat offenses. I will tolerate single "perps" a lot better than "riots".

Third, the tone and topic of the conversation determines who cares to participate in the forum. This isn't so much a free speech issue for individuals as much as it is about respecting other people on the forum. I've allowed some pretty radical viewpoints on these boards. People are allowed to have strong opinions and strongly disagree with other. However, this only works as long as everybody respects each other and the spirit of the process [which is an online debate forum].

Consider: http://earlyretirementextreme.com/the-i ... -punk.html ... which should guide the ethics behind the debates we have and how we behave on the forum. Normally, one should not have to write down what respect means in this context. It should be obvious, but apparently it isn't. This also makes spelling it out fucking awkward. However, here goes. You respect the opponent. You respect the audience. You respect yourself. If the opponent points out some infraction or below-the-board move; first instinct should be to consider that they might have a point. Not to start looking in the dictionary or rule book to see whether it's technically legal. Not to listen to see whether there are people in the audience cheering.---That's not a very good measure because there may be more people biting their tongue or leaving. But to listen and seriously consider whether they have a point. If you find yourself gaining at the expense of other people and they've told you so, you're in the wrong. The aim of the forum, even if we disagree, is mutual gain. This should not be hard to achieve.

Ultimately, if people feel disrespected for too long, they end up leaving. This then destroys the game. Without a good game, the audience leaves. And ultimately, the lights go out.

So for the record... these concerns are real and people are leaving the forum because of them. They're just doing so quietly, so please don't mistake the lack of public complaints for a non-issue.

Fourth, that since the internet is an "open house", the community ultimately constitutes "everybody". You really have no idea who is also present. So in a sense you're part of a much larger community (the internet itself). Anyone can read the forum, so consider who your audience is. Your morality should guide your actions. Again, there will be some who post whatever they think they can get away with and only care about themselves. But there will also be some who care about who might read what they're writing it. If nothing else, consider how easily the written word can be misunderstood and misinterpreted.

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