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Re: Why do we keep coming to these here ERE forums?

Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 3:48 pm
by jacob
These forums really don't look much different that the [entirety of the] net did before http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September

Back then what kept and maintained the social norms was the fact that gaining access required substantial technical understanding (something akin to today's superuser standard) and the fact that the influx of new people was rather slow compared to the mass of people already there so that member posting/behaviour was mainly defined by established etiquette.

I think there's forums are the same in that ERE has managed to stay under the mainstream radar as well as being "hard to understand" in that only people who have the dedication/discipline to understand advanced pf material actually find anything worth reading on the blog which is the main entry point. Hence the number of newcomers to the forum is << than the number already here and they're pretty well-behaved coming in too.

It's when you make things too simple or become too popular too quickly that asshats get a foothold. If they don't then asshat behaviour is shamefully obvious because it's rare, and then it's practically self-contained and controlled.

Re: Why do we keep coming to these here ERE forums?

Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 8:54 am
by Devil's Advocate
Scrubby : Thank you very much for that very detailed reply!

Right, so I’m sticking with my Word doc in my off-line computer. That’s the path of least resistance, in any case, since that is what I already have and do.

And you’re right, too, in pointing out that keeping a backup copy within my email is a stupid idea. Scratch that right out, then.

I don’t know about others here, but I myself would find it impossible to remember random “hard” passwords. But I’ll combine your points with that tip of Jacob’s earlier on, of having a system of starting each hard password with the same prefix or suffix (like “1$%” or some such), and I think I’ll be safe. One short two-or-three character string (which one uses every time) : that much my brain can probably handle.

- - - - - - - - - -

As to why these forums generally attract such quality interactions : Over and above all of what’s been said, in the posts above, here’s one additional point that comes to mind :

These are ERE forums, and presumably the only people drawn to these forums will be those with an ERE-ish bent of mind. And this bent of mind, by definition, will mean someone who takes fairness for granted (someone who is himself fair, and also someone who expects fairness in others), since without a basic environment of fairness ERE cannot work. That will mean basic honesty too, by and large. Also, the ability to take responsibility for one’s thoughts and actions. The ability to plan ahead. The ability to not be swayed by peer pressure / public opinion. And yes, a basic level of intelligence as well. And a basic level of whatever it takes to attain a basic level of “success”. All of these are essential to anything approaching ERE.

So that lets only a certain kind of person through to here. Lots of variations within that type, of course, but the basic type generally holds.

(Basically I’m patting all of us here, and myself as well in the process, on the back, and saying we’re all half-decent people, and therefore have decent interactions here. Fair?) *Smile*

Re: Why do we keep coming to these here ERE forums?

Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 9:45 am
by Ryannis
USAF Sgt wrote:
I'm here for the Extreme part. The simple living, anti-consumerism, DIY ethics and self reliance Jacob mentions on the blog.
Same here.

Re: Why do we keep coming to these here ERE forums?

Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 9:55 am
by GandK
I suppose I'd add that the culture here, which was established by Jacob's initial blog posts, is one of seeking new ideas and new solutions. A requirement for success in seeking is open-mindedness. I feel like that's rare online. Most people (myself included) tend to unconsciously seek places and people that reflect their existing opinions. But I like coming here because intelligent people here have different opinions than mine, and can articulate why in such a way that I rethink, and occasionally change, my own positions. That's down to the seeking culture and open-mindedness. I can't be shouted, shamed or chastised into a different viewpoint, but I can be gently shown a different way.

Re: Why do we keep coming to these here ERE forums?

Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:24 am
by Stahlmann
I think it gives me an excuse of not being productive with my life as I can read smart people and hope that the law "You're average 5 people you associate" will automagically come true.

Re: Why do we keep coming to these here ERE forums?

Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 9:26 am
by Lemur
Lately is reading the journals.... from the funny Bogleheads guy, to the fella living out in rural Brazil, to the individual building their own house, to another guy detailing out the long emotional roller-coaster of a divorce all trying to navigate this ERE philosophy....also reading other peoples interpretations of the ERE philosophy too. There is nothing like it anywhere else. This place is an information treasure chest too...and journaling helps to see new frameworks and lens from which other people look at a problem and help you try to solve.

@Stahlmann
I too had this as a passing thought. Reading these forums over the years and getting great references to books and materials; my own reading comprehension increased from this place. I had a really excellent university professor who spent his whole time with us discussing Metacognition (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metacognition) and the need to think about your thinking and to find people who're also in this headspace....this place is what I was looking for.

Systems Theory became a life defining discovery for me...and I still have so much to learn :)

Re: Why do we keep coming to these here ERE forums?

Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:03 pm
by Lemur
'Funny Boglheads guy' left but it was fun while it lasted watching him and I switch to active investment portfolios around the same time.

Re: Why do we keep coming to these here ERE forums?

Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:31 pm
by unemployable
I mean... have you seen the rest of the internet?

Re: Why do we keep coming to these here ERE forums?

Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2020 12:06 pm
by CS
Learning about life elsewhere and great reading material. The books and articles I've read from this place are just priceless. I would not have stumbled on them on my own - at least not such a great variety.

Re: Why do we keep coming to these here ERE forums?

Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2020 12:12 pm
by Hristo Botev
unemployable wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:31 pm
I mean... have you seen the rest of the internet?
This is probably the answer for me as much as anything else. This forum for me represents the best of what the Internet was advertised to be; it's a community of folks with differing opinions, backgrounds, worldviews, etc., all organized under some very loose understanding of this ERE thing. It's the only "social media" I participate in.

Re: Why do we keep coming to these here ERE forums?

Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:30 am
by 7Wannabe5
There are other sites I frequent which are equally interesting, but they all pass the barrier of "read book" or "books." That's why I previously suggested that Jacob should exclude anybody who hasn't even gone to the trouble of reading his book. We don't need anymore MMM refugee riff-raff loitering about.

Re: Why do we keep coming to these here ERE forums?

Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:47 am
by Alphaville
7Wannabe5 wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:30 am
We don't need anymore MMM refugee riff-raff loitering about.
:lol:

Re: Why do we keep coming to these here ERE forums?

Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2020 2:22 pm
by Lemur
@Unemployable

I've actually been actively avoiding the internet lately outside of this forum, Yahoo Finance, or Reuters just to check some quick news...

I am aware of Robinhood Traders. Nothing new there; they will lose their money and go away eventually. A small percentage of them will start studying Finance or something.

Re: Why do we keep coming to these here ERE forums?

Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2020 3:40 pm
by jennypenny
7Wannabe5 wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:30 am
There are other sites I frequent which are equally interesting, but they all pass the barrier of "read book" or "books." That's why I previously suggested that Jacob should exclude anybody who hasn't even gone to the trouble of reading his book.
I've often wished that we had a requirement of reading five books (including ERE) from the unofficial canon before being allowed to post anywhere outside of journals. People could give a small book report in their introductions, which would be really helpful in getting to know people better beyond the typical "Hi, I'm new here, found ERE on blah blah blah."

It's disappointing that so few participate in book discussions because they are some of the most-interesting-yet-civil debates we have. To be fair, that's true off the forum as well. Very few people read anymore, and those that still do mostly read 'team shirt approved' reading. I suppose that's most of what's being written as well. I hope I live long enough to see the other side of this. :?

Re: Why do we keep coming to these here ERE forums?

Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2020 4:09 pm
by jacob
Although it's a good one, I don't know how to enforce/set up such a [reads books] barrier. Of course an obvious one would be to ask "what is the 4th word on the 2nd paragraph in the 3rd chapter" but that quickly leads to "pissing and moaning" contacts via email, people downloading the pdf file, etc.

Re: Why do we keep coming to these here ERE forums?

Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2020 4:22 pm
by Hristo Botev
jacob wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 4:09 pm
Although it's a good one, I don't know how to enforce/set up such a [reads books] barrier. Of course an obvious one would be to ask "what is the 4th word on the 2nd paragraph in the 3rd chapter" but that quickly leads to "pissing and moaning" contacts via email, people downloading the pdf file, etc.
How about a quiz, but one that's set up to also determine Wheaton Levels by asking increasingly complicated questions based on how well your responses are to the initial questions? So, for me, the quiz would reveal that (a) I've read the book, but (b) I came to ERE from MMM, and (c) also (or as a consequence), I'm still barely straddling the line b/w WL4 and WL5.

Re: Why do we keep coming to these here ERE forums?

Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2020 4:37 pm
by jacob
Yah, but that would require programming ... The forum runs on a "very default" setup. At best I can I plug questions into the spam filter but only if they have an exact answer. Also, I never see the answers.

In any case, we've had the "quality"-discussion before. The best the community can hope for is for everyone to individually set a good example for what they'd want the forum to look like. There are no "hiring costs" so it's better to let the situation (atmosphere) develop organically than trying to set it top-down via a complicated admission quiz. Like with "schooling" I don't think the ability to pass a test would attract the best students.

Re: Why do we keep coming to these here ERE forums?

Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2020 5:42 pm
by enigmaT120
I read plenty of books but they're mostly fantasy or sci fi. I don't think you guys care about them. I read magazines but they are Scientific American or bicycling stuff. Or Mother Earth News.

I don't care about finance. I don't care about making money, I'm done with that. I care about not being an idiot about how I live my life, not wasting stuff.

Re: Why do we keep coming to these here ERE forums?

Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:31 am
by ZAFCorrection
I haven't finished a whole book since like my first year of grad school. I got through maybe like 2/3 of ERE. Maybe I am just justifying inherent laziness, but I find reading a little bit of a lot and seeing how it fits together is more useful than drilling into every detail of a single work. The forums are great for finding new blind spots.

I also can't find a real-life community of people who place their intellectual focus on something outside their careers.

Re: Why do we keep coming to these here ERE forums?

Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 1:34 am
by enigmaT120
ZA wrote:

I also can't find a real-life community of people who place their intellectual focus on something outside their careers.

Until I read what you wrote I don't think I ever imagined such a thing was possible.

I do have to say that my intellectual focus was never on my career, it was never that challenging until the last couple of years and by that time the emotional challenges far outweighed any intellectual ones.