Do you really understand ERE?

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Re: Do you really understand ERE?

Post by saving-10-years » Mon May 19, 2014 8:07 am

@JennyPenny I suppose that because I am new to the ERE side of things I am still at the questioning every decision. It seems a long distant goal that this will be automatic and I am not sure that that is a desirable aim from where I am now. When I was in work _that_ was automatic. But not in a good way. I am enjoying the thinking about every little thing (having the time to think about it and question whether this or that is the right thing to do) so the word 'automatic' brings me out in a rash.

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Re: Do you really understand ERE?

Post by jacob » Mon May 19, 2014 8:36 am

@s10y - If you want [parts of] your environment to be non-automatic because you want to provide some input, just set it up like that instead.


1) You're FI but you still have to drive 10 miles to get groceries and you don't like the drive. That drive is work.
2) Same situation, but you enjoy the drive---perhaps on a bicycle. Not work. You might deliberately set it up (by not buying everything you need for a while) so you have to go regularly.
3) You don't like the shopping nor the driving. No-effort (permaculture) garden in backyard.
4) Ego-example. You want occasional radical change because you don't want to get complacent. Design for opportunities with non-permanent solutions.

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Re: Do you really understand ERE?

Post by Hankaroundtheworld » Mon May 19, 2014 10:25 am

Interesting, this brings the work/life balance discussion in a new perspective :-)

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Re: Do you really understand ERE?

Post by saving-10-years » Mon May 19, 2014 10:26 am

@Jacob. Thanks. Like those examples. I recognise that this lack of an automatic feel may well be because I was very late to become aware of ERE so we are still designing our ERE life. A process that I am currently loving. Not 'mature' ERE yet.

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Re: Do you really understand ERE?

Post by jennypenny » Mon May 19, 2014 11:21 am

@S10Y--Don't rush through the process, enjoy it. Designing and building your ERE 'house' is almost as much fun as living in it.

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Re: Do you really understand ERE?

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Tue May 20, 2014 5:49 am

Hank said: Hi "7wannabe5", nothing stops you to continue with work that you like, even if you are Financial free, but as Jacob mentioned before, most of the people would stop working with what they do now if there were Financial free, and then search for more meaningful things to do (related to personal goals), but if you are one of the lucky persons that creates income from fun work, well done!
I guess my belief is that although I don't agree that most people can do a "$100 Start-up" and generate a $40,000/year self-employed income doing something they enjoy, I don't think it is all that difficult to generate $8000/year of self-employed income doing something(s) you enjoy. This might be due in part to the fact that being a bone-deep generalist, I believe that anything can be fun if you do it just for a little while and nothing is fun if you have to do it all the time.

Of course, it is also true that "I" do not want to acquire and work at a specialized 9-5 job even for 5 years in order to save enough money to live on interest. So....huge grain of salt. Carry on with sensible plans. etc. etc.

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Re: Do you really understand ERE?

Post by anomie » Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:15 pm

ERE is a shift from consumer dependency on the world and its products to becoming the ultimate in self-sufficiency.

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Re: Do you really understand ERE?

Post by steveo73 » Sun Sep 14, 2014 4:38 am

I can't state that I understand ERE or that I am really participating in ERE because ERE is a concept that Jacob has come up with plus I'm 41 and I doubt I will be ready to retire until I am 50. My viewpoint might be different to Jacobs and lots of people here.

In stating that I view ERE and this general field as being in the same sphere as creating a philosophy of life with a goal of being happy ala the stoics or Epicurus.

I view this lifestyle as basically one part of Epicurus components that lead to happiness. To me these are:-

1. Being financially free (ERE etc).
2. Having good friends.
3. Having an analyzed life.

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Re: Do you really understand ERE?

Post by Scrubby » Sat Oct 18, 2014 3:39 am

I think ERE is different things to different people, and one answer isn't necessarily more correct than the other. To me it's an important part in the pursuit of ultimate freedom.

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Re: Do you really understand ERE?

Post by tylerrr » Thu Feb 12, 2015 11:16 pm

jacob wrote:
Now, there are standard solutions or designs. The live close to the job, in a small space with less stuff, exercise to work (walk/bike), and earn money to invest for passive income all have the goal of reducing "work" and "pollution". Having interesting/useful hobbies and making connections and staying active all have the goal of considering the time/probability components.

There are other solutions as well.
But in reality, when we invest for passive income, aren't we increasing pollution by investing in companies that pollute?

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Re: Do you really understand ERE?

Post by Linnie » Sun Feb 22, 2015 8:33 pm

It seems to me ERE is "living consciously". Extremely so. :)

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Re: Do you really understand ERE?

Post by TopHatFox » Mon Feb 23, 2015 1:05 am

One way to look at ERE, in picture format! ;)

https://whyaishaloveslife.files.wordpre ... finger.png

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Re: Do you really understand ERE?

Post by Dragline » Mon Feb 23, 2015 6:45 am

That would appear to go with the John Goodman video. Perhaps an enterprising techno person could create a mash-up of similar images with the Goodman narration as the audio. ;-)

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Re: Do you really understand ERE?

Post by cmonkey » Mon Mar 23, 2015 12:14 pm

ERE philosophy is the red pill (non)incarnate. Once you understand how powerful it is you cannot go back.

It dictates taking responsibility for your life as opposed to letting others manage things for you. It doesn't matter what it is, there is an outsource for nearly every activity you can think of. Most people are walking husks with absolutely no direction, relying on "them" to do it. ERE stands in stark contrast to this.

At the same time, ERE teaches you that you have limits, but more importantly that those limits are perfectly alright. You don't need everything. You don't need to experience everything. All you must do is "be" and "be at peace". In a world that practically screams "more is better" (consumables, experiences, information, etc...), ERE silently lets you know that you have enough.

It is steady-state as opposed to growth. 8-)

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Re: Do you really understand ERE?

Post by black_son_of_gray » Thu Apr 16, 2015 9:38 pm

Today the thought popped into my head, "What is the difference between an ERE-focused individual and a need-based Renaissance man?" Are they not the same thing? Just curious as to what others think regarding the OP topic.

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Re: Do you really understand ERE?

Post by ThisDinosaur » Wed Jun 28, 2017 5:58 pm

Since Jacob just linked to this thread, I'm re-evaluating my ERE design to see if it qualifies. I'm not sure it does.

Jacob says the goal is to supply needs automatically by "eliminating work and pollution [=waste]...through useful hobbies...contingencies, backups."

Minimalism comes naturally to me. I see material possessions as dead weight. Healthy lifestyle comes naturally to me. I'm an active guy and I don't much care for doughnuts n' such.

But nobody's gonna feed me in exchange for climbing stuff and kayaking. (No, I don't enjoy fishing or foraging.) Investing and maintaining a homestead are both "work" to me, so this doesn't strictly meet Jacob's definition.

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Re: Do you really understand ERE?

Post by wolf » Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:09 am

As I wrote in my journal post, I have spend some time and collected many aspects of ERE from various sources (see below). I tried to collect them in a consistent way without multiple entries/nominations. Maybe you are interested and maybe you can use it too. These aspects all come from us (ERE-Forum).
I want to thank all of you, because all this is based on the various posts from you. I want to thank especially Jacob, because he is the reason why many/all of us are here. And I want to thank him because, he showed me/us the path/way to ERE.

ERE vs sacrifice / The Wheaton scale of ERE.
Do you really understand ERE?
What is ERE? from ERE-Wiki

Aspects of ERE in no particular order, separated by semicolon:

living life the way you want to live it; freedom from fear; freedom from bondage to possesions; conscious choice of self discipline; life off the beaten path; planning, designing and executing; continuous self-improvement; sufficient abundance to allow comfort and contentedness; without excess and without clutter; become absolutely free; creating a personal feedback loop of discovery and growth; constantly adapting to change; eliminating unnecessary desctructive elements; creation rather than consumption; minimalism; self-sufficiency; personal system; development and possession of a variety of skills and knowledge; solving problems creatively; live independently and robustly and antifragile; optimization of limited resources; system approach to applied self-reliance; simple living; anticonsumerism; DIY ethics; creating resilient and sustainable and holistic solutions to the problems of life; efficient use of time and life energy; develop many different skills; interconnection and relation to one another; "personal permaculture"; each skill aids and supports the other skills naturally; in harmony with personal values, preferences and goals; environmentally sustainable lifestyle; choose your own path in life; living below your means in all aspects of life within self-defined bounds; minimizing waste; with minimum of effort, energy, time and resources; aligning goals with the positive by-products of individual actions; accumulation of skills and resources; looking, thinking and learning... and then applying to see if the idea works for you; strive to become antifragile; hack to get out of the "common" society; optimal balance between creating personal happiness and providing the personal effort or spending time to reach this; follow your personal goals without any limitation set by others; increasing choices and options in life; eliminate work that is required to satisfy needs and wants; setting up a system that requires little maintenance; contains a substantial focus on future; long-term thinking; specifically contingencies and backups; shift from consumer dependency on the world and its products; renaissance man ideal; home economics; individualism; lifestyle that meets all needs while minimizing ongoing inputs of money, natural resources, friction, and effort; prudence; becoming financial independent; systems principles; web approach; connection between the choices rather than on the choices themselves; a way of viewing the structure of the choices and how they fit together in the most optimal way; design a structure and a system; maximize the synergy between specific choices to increase efficiency and opportunity; Web of Goals; eliminating negative side-effects; goals are choosen to have mutually reinforcing positive side effects; maximize resilience; brain-intensive replacement of consumerism; building goods without having to purchase them; flexibility; greater personal competences; frugality; survivalism; car-free living; significant reduction in living expenses; Pareto principle; focus on production over consumption; self-actualization; involvment of networking with people; The consumer needs to spend money on finished products and services. The ERE person spends money on tools, parts, and education in order to make his own products and services.; building a skill set not only develops useful skills, but also provides security by leveraging those skills to generate income; more possible combinations to try when solving a problem; solve a problem using its own skill-set instead of purchasing a solution to a problem; provide for their own needs instead of purchasing needed items; increased knowledge makes it possible to see opportunities where others do not see them; adaptability; sustainability; reducing, reusing, recycling, repairing, reselling; diversifying income streams; maximize serendipity, which is an unexpected positive opportunity; minimizing any constraints in order to maximize serendipity; increasing a person's awareness; being widely competent and informed; generates opportunities through many different people and many different projects; not about lifestyle, but more about life-history; process of becoming a master of yourself; multidimensional; financial wealth AND resources and skills; renaissance - being generally and widely proficient; synergy effects; resourcefulness; working smarter, not harder; many tools available; bringing concepts together; adding value; thinking like a designer; closing the cycle from resource to production to resource; removing inefficiencies; picks a tool that works with the environment; emerging that it scales; how you think and interact with the world; autonomy and freedom; having turned yourself into a hub that connects persons from different backgrounds, resources from different places, skills from different areas; is not about being a self-sufficient homesteader; be able to do something in as many different ways as possible; being not dependent on just one thing; if you need something done more than once, learn to do it yourself; looking for the sweet spot between making, fixing, getting, trading, combining, substituting, and last but not least buying; the more you know, the best you can pick the right solution for the problem; ERE: 25% paying, 25% substituting/trading..., 25% fixing, 25% making ... depending on skills and preferences; whether a skill / activity is worth doing depends largely on whether it fulfills three factors: autonomy, mastery, purpose; goal of ERE is competence; develop 20th century life skills and prioritize life-skills rather than random "passions";

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