Writing another ERE book?

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jacob
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Post by jacob »

I would be very interested in hearing your thoughts about this, since it has some bearing on how I choose to spend the next couple of years of my life.
Should I write another book?
I have (at least two conditions) doing so
1) I'm not going to repeat myself more than absolutely necessary.

2) I'm not going to write something which is substantially similar to what's already been published by other authors (if everybody adhered to this rule, there would be very few pf-books).
With that in mind, I'd like to ask if what you think is missing in the book in terms of style, target audience, technical details, etc.


Redsted1
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Post by Redsted1 »

I'm nearly finished with the book and I'm loving it so far. It's very well rounded and has a nice flow to it. I think you mentioned in other threads something about a shorter book geared towards the masses. It could be a book/pamphlet on your "21 day makeover", and I think, for your personal benefit, something like that could be a pretty good cross section between time spent writing it and dollars returned.
I enjoy the format of your first book in the sense that it is intentionally ambiguous. If you felt like breaking it apart and getting specific you could easily expand a couple chapters of the book into much more. Although there are TONS of investing strategy books out there, you may be able to corner a small piece of the market on your own ideas of investing for ERE and beyond. You have a more conservative view on investing (rightfully so), and you don't like buy-and-hold methods so you could have some fresh ideas for a multitude of people. I'd buy that book if you wrote it.
An idea that popped into my head yesterday while reading your book that I wanted to share was an ERE Cookbook. That book could easily be as long as the first one, if not longer. It could have scores of recipes, but I picture it beginning with at least 3-5 chapters setting up the ERE way of cooking/eating/different diets/etc...you could also make it a cookbook/physical health & well being book and throw in ERE workouts and such. I'd buy that in a heartbeat as well.


aquadump
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Post by aquadump »

The reason I asked what the target audience for the book is that I was wondering if this is an advanced book. Please don't take this wrong; I enjoy the book very much. I'll save my accolades for a proper review.
However, there are very few people in my life that I can think to pass this book onto. It's written for the person who genuinely want an alternative to work. The target audience, in my opinion, is already interested in active thinking outside of his everyday world *and* is interested to think about taking action on these thoughts.
Since my the relative short beginning of my extreme quest, I've become more sensitive to conspicuous consumption in conversations, such as: this is why we work, you only live once [to consume], it is what it is (career/consumption).
I think you post the consumption consequences well. I also think a step-by-step would help. I think what would help a lot is addressing the possibilities, along with the already written feasibility, for financial independence or early retirement. My opinion is that a lot of people lack the proper reflection for life outside of the career game and therefore have no reason to search to see if working is a "shadow game." This tactic would target early career people.
Targeting older career people might be displaying how lifestyle simplification, over "x more years of work" or "x% better investment performance" will comfort the retirement fund much more effectively.
I like equations and graphs, but I also know a lot of people who gloss over such abstractions. So the final audience gap I see is metaphors or a softer approach, but that may make it much more like other PF information.
I don't mean to suggest I am in touch with the market, but rather pass on my thoughts while reading such a high quality writing. And, I don't think a second book would bring down the value of the ERE book, but it may open doors for people to want to read the ERE book.


jeremymday
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Post by jeremymday »

Hi Jacob,
From a business perspective, if you want to make a living by writing, keep writing books.
And I second rested1's comment, I would love to see a cookbook, more about saving money on eating. From everything I've read on other people's blogs people really struggle with this issue.
Even though you might have a small audience, you have an audience that can't get enough of this stuff. We are trying to live the life, and even if we don't want/need to learn more, we have a constant need to be motivated and inspired.
Food for thought...
Cheers,

jeremy


RobBennett
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Post by RobBennett »

My thought is that you should let the reactions to this book be your guide as to what to write about next. It might be that you will find that some reactions will interest you in an exploration of aspects of the question that at earlier times you didn't see as being that important.
I personally like the idea of a short version of the book because I believe that there are lots of people who will not read an in-depth treatment. The question is -- Are the sorts of people not willing to examine this in depth willing to direct any effort whatsoever to study of it? Perhaps not. Perhaps this is an in-depth or nothing sort of topic.
In any event, you appear to be a guy who likes to go in-depth. You're in a situation where you are doing this more for the intellectual stimulation than for the money. So you have to find something that turns you on. My guess is that for you that is going to be an in-depth treatment of a new subject. So I am not confident that the short treatment idea is the right idea for you.
Rob


HSpencer
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Post by HSpencer »

I like rePete's idea of targeting older people who may not have as yet nailed down their retirement plans. This would be out of the ERE classification, but certainly within the subject. These days we see very few defined benefit retirement plans. These were the mainstay for people for years past. I believe you would be very proficient in writing about 401k's and IRA's. Health care would also be a topic, but with the uncertainty looming on this, it might be difficult to research and write about. You might go into planning from a standpoint of selling the big house, living in the right location, getting down to one car, or none. Another area would be tax planning for retirement, but that is a broad topic. I believe that many people now in their 40's to 50's would greatly benefit from such a book, as it is evident that many have no plan at all.


NYC ERE
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Post by NYC ERE »

Seconding the short version--and "pop-ified" if you can stomach it.
Incomplete list of ideas for shortening and distilling:
* shorten early critique of the education system to succinct, practical advice regarding education, including a "worksheet" for ROI and opportunity cost

* a chapter on running your home like a business, including a primer on how small businesses run, for the uninitiated

* how to model yourself after past generations WRT belongings, durables, savings -- including examples and anecdotes

* "the last X you'll ever buy" with actual product recommendations, or else good books/online resources to find the durables -- pithy, without the in-depth discussion of what kind of jacket to get, &c. e.g. Google Voice or Ooma to replace a $100 cell phone plan, those boots you like, an online resource for building your own Linux machine, OpenOffice... These will "date" the book, but I wouldn't worry too much about it; if the book has staying power, there will be additional editions.

* "What if everybody did it?" chapter.
Pop-ifying:
* quotes at the start of each chapter -- Stoics, Benjamin Franklin, Thoreau...

* calculators/worksheets

* connecting the dots so as to be a candidate not only for the "personal finance" section of the bookstore, but also "current affairs" --
ERE is in the zeitgeist:
* Gladwell shows us how to achieve mastery at something, but how do you find the time?

* Ferriss shows us how to optimize our time and prioritize our dreams, but where are the ethics?

* Liberals decry our ecological footprint, but fail to provide a solution that doesn't involve buying more stuff.

* Conservatives espouse returning to our roots, but without giving up our 3,000-foot homes and cable subscription.

* Huffington whines "Third World America," blaming everyone but consumers for over-leveraging themselves and over-consuming

* Americans are now saving at six percent, up from zero -- Americans are running scared; ERE is an elegant solution for both personal and national problems (financial insecurity, long-term slow growth, the environment, crisis of the nuclear family...)


nmthomps
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Post by nmthomps »

Hello!
Just want to give a few thoughts here. By the way, I wrote your first review on Amazon. It has my husbands name on it for some reason and I couldn't change it.
I wouldn't popify it (aka dumb it down) sort of goes against your entire philosophy in my opinion, like buying an index fund.
In the past I have never read anything(ie retire early books) as indepth as your book but thoroughly enjoyed the challenge. Also, I think it already applies to a wide audience, all you need to do is modify the title.
I am in my 40's and have a high income so its hard to relate to a lot of the other books and apply the ideas to my situation but yours applied just fine. (I'm thinking of Your Money or Your Life-putting a dollar amt on your time and how much time it takes to buy something-that isn't very useful to me. But breaking things down to percentages worked.)
Writing follow ups to elaborate in certain areas would be interesting such as the cookbook idea, elaborate on the workouts. I like the challenge of getting up to so many miles walking/cycling. Possibly some specific work out suggestions to get in shape enough to be able to travel by bicycle. An investment book would be interesting.
At the end of the book you mention reading the list of books at the end as a sort of education in this philosophy. That is what I am interested in. I'd like to learn more about the basics that underly the entire book. Possibly a reading list and study guide of some sort to go with books.
I really like the audio idea. Someone else mentioned being hungry for more info and I'll second that. I have to constantly stay listening to and reading about something to stay with it and stay focused on the goal. Personally, I find podcasts the easist to deal with. Or even mp3 downloads.
Nell


jeremymday
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Post by jeremymday »

Hi Jacob,
I wouldn't recommend "dumbing down" the book to "popify" it. But the idea has its good intentions and I think we all need to help answer this question...
"How do we take this philosophy to the masses?"
Maybe its not for the masses, but as you mention, as each individual adopts this philosophy it will become more accepted in the mainstream, and we will start seeing institutional change.
Hope this gives some food for thought.
Cheers,

jeremy


NYC ERE
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Post by NYC ERE »

Is Gladwell "dumbed down?" I would argue that he's "pop" nevertheless.


hobbyfinder
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Post by hobbyfinder »

Hi Jacob

Writing a follow up to your book is an excellent challenge for your inner inspiration and development. This will bring you to the next level needed, not just for the masses, or the mainstream audience you would attract. However, this is more for the knowledge and inspiration you can give to the new generation coming. RePete has some great points, but I feel that the new generation needs new guidelines the old generation will be harder to influence. With regards to implementing your advice into a long team action. Feed the young minds.
Jill


Wild
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Post by Wild »

Please don't to dumb-it-down, or pop-ify to gain broader (consumer) market appeal.
Jacob's strengths lie in his ability to approach the varying topics of consumer culture, saving, investing, efficiency, resource depletion, etc. from a highly analytical perspective. I say, show me a cash-flow sigma function, talk about discount rates and interest rates from a historical perspective, and, yes, explain how what we know about systems theory applies to how we set up our lives!
Maybe the investing route is the way to go. I know I, for one, would like to dig deeper into "to tax-defer or not defer," early withdrawal strategies, HSA benefits, evaluating dividend stocks, capital gains, etc.
I second the "young minds" idea. If you did want to do a more general, easier-to-read type book, I would suggest something aimed at middle school-high school-college students. I could imagine such a book gaining a cult-type following among young people as they are already apprehensive about being led toward a pre-programmed lifestyle.


jeremymday
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Post by jeremymday »

@ Zev - Gladwell explains things in a very broad way. While he does give specific examples he isn't really attempting to teach people how to do something. When I think of Gladwell I just think of cool things I want to read about to entertain me how humans work. If Jacob could write a more "entertaining" book then it would be "pop" I would say, but it would get away from the "how-to" and just talk more about cool research, cool case studies, etc.
@ Wild - I think u have be on to something. A book catering to teenage and college age kids would work well. In fact Id love to co-author such a book since I work with that population. And besides, its seem like younger people will benefit more from hearing all this then older people.


gibberade
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Post by gibberade »

Oh please do make one geared towards the younger audience! Although I must admit the market may be too small.


Robert Muir
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Post by Robert Muir »

I thought this cartoon applied quite well to Jacob:

"you don't write books for the money. you write books to stake your claim on whatever ground you want to own."
Here's the link to the full picture if it's cut off:

http://gallery.mailchimp.com/028de8672d ... 06_11j.jpg


jiminyork
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Post by jiminyork »

Jacob

I'd encourage you to write another book and also echo some of the comments about aiming it at a younger audience. I really enjoyed the "lock in" part of your book and felt that this deserved even further thought on some subjects. Education, for example. I know so many parents "locked in" by paying for their kids' schooling (I'm in the UK). Increasingly I think "For what"? Where are the jobs? I was one of Thatcher's Children, but even we were non-starters when it comes to "greed is good" compared with today. It seems that parents are terrified their kids won't earn a living, although by "living" I probably mean a six figure salary.

The parents might be beyond hope, but maybe the kids can still be taught alternatives?


dragoncar
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Post by dragoncar »

Let me preface this by saying I love the book. The word "treatise" popped into my mind when I finished it. However, I would like to see a second edition with typos corrected before another book. I assume you are aware of the typos, but if not I'd be happy to send you a few I noted.
As far as the next book goes, I like a lot of the ideas in this thread. It could be as simple as taking a few of the more important topics in your book and drilling down even farther, now assuming the reader knows everything from the first book. In other words, if the first book had 20 topics that you had to cover in order to expose the synergy between them, the next book could take the 5 most important topics and expand on them. However, that might limit readership to those who read the first book.
On another side, I would definitely like to learn accounting for investing from you. Yes, the information is probably available online, but it is in bits and pieces and the "wheat" is often mixed with the "chaff." Additionally, I like your writing style and think you're a great teacher. If you think this kind of book already exists, however, I'd like to hear a specific recommendation so I can read it.


gratonman
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Post by gratonman »

Jacob,
Wait a while and please consider giving talks about ERE V1.

The more people you talk to about ERE V1 should give you a better idea what people want to see in ERE V2. It would be interesting to be part of a seminar where the first speaker says this is how to make millions so that you can retire. You could follow and show you don't need millions to retire can improve the quality of your life at the same time. I enjoyed ERE V1 and will keep my copy. It was worth my life energy to work for a copy that I will pick up from time to time to review.

I don't think anything is missing as the stated intention was for each person to come up with their own strategy.
Perhaps ERE V2 will be a specific strategy / checklist / decision tree with various levels of savings. It would be an extremely expanded "21 day makeover". Take for example housing
1)In the same geographic area decrease your housing footprint (and cost).

a) Downsize to a smaller home.

b) Downsize to a alternative form of housing (mobile home/boat/RV).

c) Downsize to a room / Share housing. ( This is probably easier to downsize to than most boats )
2)If you are in an expensive area consider leaving the area:

a) Move within the same country to where the jobs aren't and housing costs less.

b) Move to another country with a lower cost of housing.
How to decrease your footprint might include:

A Japanese approach. One room, all functions, lots of closets, everything designed to be put away or become out of the way.
And so on....


dragoncar
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Post by dragoncar »

Also kind of random, but hardback would be great. I usually wouldn't care one way or another, as most books only get read once. But I can see wear and tear eventually becoming an issue with V1. How much more does Amazon charge to make it available in hardback, or is that even an option?


jacob
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Post by jacob »

@dragoncar - A hardback is not an option with the current printer.


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