AONC seems to be the most bought other book.
Customers who bought this book also bought ... the 4HWW
I bought the 4HWW and YMOYL along with Jacob's book for 2 simple reasons.
1. People keep talking about them here. Sort of the same reason I picked up Please Understand Me II... if people talk about something enough, it tends to drive up curiosity. Note, I haven't bought RDPD and don't intend to, as the general consensus seems pretty low.
2. Reason number two, I simply cluster multiple items in orders from Amazon to save on shipping. I know one other poster said they also bought 4HWW with the same order, so probably just a cruel effect of the current buyer sample size.
Just my thoughts.
1. People keep talking about them here. Sort of the same reason I picked up Please Understand Me II... if people talk about something enough, it tends to drive up curiosity. Note, I haven't bought RDPD and don't intend to, as the general consensus seems pretty low.
2. Reason number two, I simply cluster multiple items in orders from Amazon to save on shipping. I know one other poster said they also bought 4HWW with the same order, so probably just a cruel effect of the current buyer sample size.
Just my thoughts.
I read 4HWW and reread it occasionally. I realized the following things.
Expecting Tim to both be successful AND be highly ethical is a little silly. If you want go save the world go start a non-profit. The world's burdens do not need to go on one man's shoulders. There's lots of books on how to be a saint. Not very many good books on lifestyle design. Lifestyle businesses have a long tradition. Tim just shows you a different way of doing it using modern technology.
There's a lot of really good, really subtle information in Tim's book. There's a reason why he proceeds from phase to phase, because it's very hard to make it work any other way. If you start working on a "muse" and start running into snags, you should go back to the book, because chances are there's some good high-level coaching that can help you. If you need low-level hand holding then you probably won't be able to make it work.
I started planning a muse, but eventually put it aside and went another direction. Muses are great, but they're a lot of work, starting off. And they rely on a lot of little pieces working together in ways that aren't always cut and dried for you. If you want your online payment processor talking directly to your distributor, you're going to have to bridge that communications barrier yourself, and figure out ways to deal with edge cases. Tim advocates handling edge cases in ways that would make most would-be businessmen shake in fear. Without following his advice carefully, such an enterprise would never automate. Business culture expects the owner to always make himself available, and when your income is on the line, you need some assurance that it's not all going to fall to pieces once you take yourself out of the loop.
Expecting Tim to both be successful AND be highly ethical is a little silly. If you want go save the world go start a non-profit. The world's burdens do not need to go on one man's shoulders. There's lots of books on how to be a saint. Not very many good books on lifestyle design. Lifestyle businesses have a long tradition. Tim just shows you a different way of doing it using modern technology.
There's a lot of really good, really subtle information in Tim's book. There's a reason why he proceeds from phase to phase, because it's very hard to make it work any other way. If you start working on a "muse" and start running into snags, you should go back to the book, because chances are there's some good high-level coaching that can help you. If you need low-level hand holding then you probably won't be able to make it work.
I started planning a muse, but eventually put it aside and went another direction. Muses are great, but they're a lot of work, starting off. And they rely on a lot of little pieces working together in ways that aren't always cut and dried for you. If you want your online payment processor talking directly to your distributor, you're going to have to bridge that communications barrier yourself, and figure out ways to deal with edge cases. Tim advocates handling edge cases in ways that would make most would-be businessmen shake in fear. Without following his advice carefully, such an enterprise would never automate. Business culture expects the owner to always make himself available, and when your income is on the line, you need some assurance that it's not all going to fall to pieces once you take yourself out of the loop.
The product endorsements to me are very smart, both in terms of income and in terms of utility value. Basically an automated business is a regular business with very special needs. Those special needs are often best catered to by specially constructed services. Hence the emphasis on virtual assistants and the like.
Also, writing a book/e-book is perfect for automated income generation. But there's plenty of books that teach you how to write and how to hack publishing. Not so many that teach you how to create a product and sell it online. I don't get the objections to 4HWW that say "Oh, Tim's an author now, don't listen to him!" He's an author NOW. He wasn't always.
Lots of people who read Tim's book gloss over the supplemental reading. I didn't. His primary recommendations are excellent. The E-Myth Revisited and The Magic of Thinking Big are outstanding and you can see where a lot of Tim's ideas came from in those books.
Also, writing a book/e-book is perfect for automated income generation. But there's plenty of books that teach you how to write and how to hack publishing. Not so many that teach you how to create a product and sell it online. I don't get the objections to 4HWW that say "Oh, Tim's an author now, don't listen to him!" He's an author NOW. He wasn't always.
Lots of people who read Tim's book gloss over the supplemental reading. I didn't. His primary recommendations are excellent. The E-Myth Revisited and The Magic of Thinking Big are outstanding and you can see where a lot of Tim's ideas came from in those books.
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jacob
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@VinceG - Not being able to make it without going from phase to phase is one of the things that concern me about the 4HWW approach. One way to look at it is in terms of pursuing muses, but another way to look at it is in terms of burned bridges. For example, will he ever be allowed into another kickboxing tournament?
If promotion >> content, one has to move on (be on the run) continuously because the foundation is not sustainable. People who felt like the goods didn't deliver on the promises are not going to buy again. Consequently, one has to seek out new markets continuously before one's reputation catches up.
I don't dispute that Ferris is successful, but I doubt that very many people can be successful with his methods. The first venture was the supplement business. He worked 100 hour weeks to build that for a few years. Then he outsourced operations and subsequently sold it (not his problem anymore). The 4HWW does a good job in describing how to do that... IF and ONLY IF you have such a business. To actually build such a business in the first place, the E-Myth is far better.
He does describe how to set up a drop-shipping company, but this is so easy that it's just not going to stay competitive. It was a clever idea 10 year ago. Today, it's not very clever. Profit margins are extremely thin.
Unless, you're able to quickly latch onto a new idea (like writing a book about the well-known Pareto principle), market it very well, and then move on ... to, say, writing a book about bodybuilding, reality is going to catch up. Like the idea of harassing the TAs. Try that and you're never gonna get past undergraduate. The methods to convince the boss to telecommute while in reality vacationing in Belize while having outsourced your job to India---sooner or later, people are going to find a way to short out the unproductive outsourcer from the circuit.
These methods work when you're the first or the method is fairly unknown. They're not going to work later. The method is not reproducible. It is sold as if it is, but in most cases, it's not going to work.
From a business perspective, you can compete on innovation, execution, and relations. The 4HWW approach is very long on innovation(*), but very short on execution and relations. The problem then is that once a method is mass-marketed, it's no longer innovation. This leaves it irreproducible.
(*) Selling brain enhancing drugs, exploiting tournament rules, hassling TAs, getting others to do your work, using bloggers to market your book, ...
If promotion >> content, one has to move on (be on the run) continuously because the foundation is not sustainable. People who felt like the goods didn't deliver on the promises are not going to buy again. Consequently, one has to seek out new markets continuously before one's reputation catches up.
I don't dispute that Ferris is successful, but I doubt that very many people can be successful with his methods. The first venture was the supplement business. He worked 100 hour weeks to build that for a few years. Then he outsourced operations and subsequently sold it (not his problem anymore). The 4HWW does a good job in describing how to do that... IF and ONLY IF you have such a business. To actually build such a business in the first place, the E-Myth is far better.
He does describe how to set up a drop-shipping company, but this is so easy that it's just not going to stay competitive. It was a clever idea 10 year ago. Today, it's not very clever. Profit margins are extremely thin.
Unless, you're able to quickly latch onto a new idea (like writing a book about the well-known Pareto principle), market it very well, and then move on ... to, say, writing a book about bodybuilding, reality is going to catch up. Like the idea of harassing the TAs. Try that and you're never gonna get past undergraduate. The methods to convince the boss to telecommute while in reality vacationing in Belize while having outsourced your job to India---sooner or later, people are going to find a way to short out the unproductive outsourcer from the circuit.
These methods work when you're the first or the method is fairly unknown. They're not going to work later. The method is not reproducible. It is sold as if it is, but in most cases, it's not going to work.
From a business perspective, you can compete on innovation, execution, and relations. The 4HWW approach is very long on innovation(*), but very short on execution and relations. The problem then is that once a method is mass-marketed, it's no longer innovation. This leaves it irreproducible.
(*) Selling brain enhancing drugs, exploiting tournament rules, hassling TAs, getting others to do your work, using bloggers to market your book, ...
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smileyriles
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.I think 4HWW is worth a read to get an example of someone breaking out of the cave, but Ferriss is a narcissist if there ever was one. The book is basically about how he's so much smarter than everyone else, considering other people as a source of cheap labor or unearned money. I know someone like that personally and while it's interesting from a psychological point of view, the constant need to prove he's better is annoying and a bit embarrassing (How to be superhuman - really??). But then again, he's a product of his time, narcissism is THE hip personality disorder of consumer culture.
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jacob
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I think this is what really irks me. It's not that the book exists and that Tim does what he does (as long as he doesn't do it to me) but that so many people think that "considering other people as a source of cheap labor or unearned money" is fantastic idea and so few (judging by the reviews) seem to have a problem with the ethics of that scheme.
I actually think the virtual assistant component of 4HWW is ethically sound, though probably not as broadly applicable as Ferriss proposes--I'm thinking here of his advocating salaried people to use VAs. For an entrepreneur or freelancer whose time is worth multiples of what a VA's is worth on the labor market, however, an overseas VA strikes me as a win-win bit of geo-arbitrage, considering that the "cheapness" of the labor is only cheap in the eyes of the client, and that the income is more than live-able for the service provider.
It doesn't necessarily comport with the DIY/Renaissance Man aspect of the ERE book, but I think it's a valid tactic for those who can't jam any more tasks into their schedule without giving up higher-value activities.
It doesn't necessarily comport with the DIY/Renaissance Man aspect of the ERE book, but I think it's a valid tactic for those who can't jam any more tasks into their schedule without giving up higher-value activities.
In my case, 4HWW was the first book I ever read about early retirement and lifestyle design, so it hit me as a thunderbolt and I loved it.
I thought to read it again, but I never did because I discovered many more interesting titles to keep me busy enough
If it wasn't my "eye opener" I don't know if I would have been that impressed, but I still think is a good collection of concepts already available and put together in one book.
I loved his definition of happiness and the DEAL concept (Definition, Elimination, Automation, Liberation) is very valid.
I still think is a good read for everyone interested in FI/ER.
But hey, let's not forget that he's making 40.000$/month (according to him), so has nothing to do with living with little
I thought to read it again, but I never did because I discovered many more interesting titles to keep me busy enough
If it wasn't my "eye opener" I don't know if I would have been that impressed, but I still think is a good collection of concepts already available and put together in one book.
I loved his definition of happiness and the DEAL concept (Definition, Elimination, Automation, Liberation) is very valid.
I still think is a good read for everyone interested in FI/ER.
But hey, let's not forget that he's making 40.000$/month (according to him), so has nothing to do with living with little
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jacob
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@SF - Good point! I think that's also why I'm torn on it. I really like the "ends", but I completely disagree on the "means".
I think the kickboxing tournament is quite predictive of a person's reaction to the book. Personally I think it's a disgrace, whereas others think it's really clever---and probably many more think it's okay.
I think the kickboxing tournament is quite predictive of a person's reaction to the book. Personally I think it's a disgrace, whereas others think it's really clever---and probably many more think it's okay.
@Jacob -- I understand where you're coming from, but honestly I think you're trying way too hard to find fault here. Tim doesn't expect you to use his methods, he's giving examples and general ideas, like your book, as a matter of fact. (I own both) He's very aware of the fact that creating an automated-income "muse" is by far the most difficult part of his book, which is why he devotes a full 43 pages to it.
Also, I think you're judging Tim's book unfairly. His is one of the very first books on lifestyle design using the Internet and all the tools available. It's like attacking George Washington for having had slaves. The books he was competing with were a lot shadier, Robert Allen anyone? A lot of principles of ethical business practice simply weren't mainstream when his book came out. Reading his book put them there. I get SEO tards trying to get me to believe in that crap all the time. Ferriss believes in bringing real value to people. Sure brain supplements turned out to be a bust, but they weren't always considered so.
I would dispute the claim that Ferriss believes that promotion > content. His book is (still) one of the most informative and useful books out there. It's not just fluff and fairies. I recently purged my book collection of over 90% of the books, his was one of the few I kept, and I tossed some very good books. I would not have done that if I didn't think it was useful. Also his blog is consistently interesting. Ferriss really does exhibit a commitment to his readers. Someone who's mostly a promoter would not be able to hold people's interest like he does.
Ferriss simply uses the same Pareto principle'ing that he does in the rest of his life, with promoting. It's effective. I find it unfortunate that the best title for his book turned out to be "The Four-Hour Workweek" but that's more of a reflection on society than on him. He detailed the process he used to pick his book title at one point. If your stuff is good, promoting will make it better, if it isn't, promoting won't.
Also, I think you're judging Tim's book unfairly. His is one of the very first books on lifestyle design using the Internet and all the tools available. It's like attacking George Washington for having had slaves. The books he was competing with were a lot shadier, Robert Allen anyone? A lot of principles of ethical business practice simply weren't mainstream when his book came out. Reading his book put them there. I get SEO tards trying to get me to believe in that crap all the time. Ferriss believes in bringing real value to people. Sure brain supplements turned out to be a bust, but they weren't always considered so.
I would dispute the claim that Ferriss believes that promotion > content. His book is (still) one of the most informative and useful books out there. It's not just fluff and fairies. I recently purged my book collection of over 90% of the books, his was one of the few I kept, and I tossed some very good books. I would not have done that if I didn't think it was useful. Also his blog is consistently interesting. Ferriss really does exhibit a commitment to his readers. Someone who's mostly a promoter would not be able to hold people's interest like he does.
Ferriss simply uses the same Pareto principle'ing that he does in the rest of his life, with promoting. It's effective. I find it unfortunate that the best title for his book turned out to be "The Four-Hour Workweek" but that's more of a reflection on society than on him. He detailed the process he used to pick his book title at one point. If your stuff is good, promoting will make it better, if it isn't, promoting won't.
People attack him for "cheating" in the Chinese kickboxing championship, but he didn't cheat. He followed the rules. He just found loopholes.
Us IT folk are the world's best at creating and living by weird, unexplainable principles. But when you work from a set of principles instead of practical concerns, you're all of a sudden incapable of giving advice. Principles marginalize you, no matter how just they seem. Principles can't be argued with, all you can do is smile and nod. Attacking someone for violating your principles is utterly silly. Don't mistake principles for ethics.
Us IT folk are the world's best at creating and living by weird, unexplainable principles. But when you work from a set of principles instead of practical concerns, you're all of a sudden incapable of giving advice. Principles marginalize you, no matter how just they seem. Principles can't be argued with, all you can do is smile and nod. Attacking someone for violating your principles is utterly silly. Don't mistake principles for ethics.
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AlexOliver
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okay, I used to be a regular at his blog until 6 months ago. Initially, I must admit,I was rather blown away by his ideas. I was so impressed, I was on auto-pilot when reading his advice and suggestions. Then, after a while, it dawned on me that, maybe, just maybe, this guy's exaggerating a bit. I mean, come on, pick up something new, anything at all , and go on to be the best in 3 months, an year? No failures? Not one? What are you, superman? ( or should I say the incredible hulk 
) Even assuming he is extraordinary (some of his achievements are verifiable, after all) it's ludicrous how he passes off those as guaranteed replicable way to the same results, to gullible folks everywhere. And he's a little too narcissistic and optimistic. He really has a lot of skills, I must admit, but what he's most skilled at has to be embellishment.
) Even assuming he is extraordinary (some of his achievements are verifiable, after all) it's ludicrous how he passes off those as guaranteed replicable way to the same results, to gullible folks everywhere. And he's a little too narcissistic and optimistic. He really has a lot of skills, I must admit, but what he's most skilled at has to be embellishment.-
veganprimate
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I was noticing 4HWW being mentnioned on a lot of blogs I was reading some time back, and I checked out his blog. He had a video on there from some location where he was vacationing. I watched the video, and just from his face, mannerisms, voice, etc. I came to the conclusion that Tim is the kind of guy who would lie to a woman to get in her pants. He comes across so arrogant and is obviously a user of other human beings.
@Alex - Promotion does not enhance product. The discussion is over whether Tim Ferriss considers promotion to be more important than content. My argument is that Tim Ferriss' content is amazing, so obviously he doesn't consider it so.
@slacker & vegan - He's not the most pleasant person in the world, but what he's accomplished is absolutely incredible. I doubt you'd have found Thomas Edison a terribly affable person either, had you met him in person. Nor Howard Hughes. One of the great things about America is that anybody can be great in it. You're free to dismiss him on any grounds you wish, but allow me to suggest that you're doing yourselves a disservice by doing so.
@slacker & vegan - He's not the most pleasant person in the world, but what he's accomplished is absolutely incredible. I doubt you'd have found Thomas Edison a terribly affable person either, had you met him in person. Nor Howard Hughes. One of the great things about America is that anybody can be great in it. You're free to dismiss him on any grounds you wish, but allow me to suggest that you're doing yourselves a disservice by doing so.